Uvalde Texas Killing

[JettaKnight]

This! Teaching should not be a jobs program for people too fragile for the world. If we can't trust you with a gun, why in God's name do we trust you with a room full of children.

There's a lot of good teachers that aren't proficient with firearms; and that's OK. Not everyone can have the right mindset for it.

There's more to being proficient with firearms in combat than just the three rules and occasional range days. It's not that easy.


I'd rather have the unskilled say "no thanks" rather than force them to carry because... reasons. It's a tool, not a magic talisman. And like any tool you need to be proficient and, let's be honest, not everyone can be.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

There's a lot of good teachers that aren't proficient with firearms; and that's OK. Not everyone can have the right mindset for it.

There's more to being proficient with firearms in combat than just the three rules and occasional range days. It's not that easy.


I'd rather have the unskilled say "no thanks" rather than force them to carry because... reasons. It's a tool, not a magic talisman. And like any tool you need to be proficient and, let's be honest, not everyone can be.

Oh nonono,

I am not suggesting that we arm the unfit teachers at all, but rather force out those unfit people and replace them with capable adults.

Also, thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding regarding combat proficiency. I did in fact think that the only things required was the three rules and an occasional range day. This is probably due to my limited understanding of firearms and training.

Thank you for sharing from your knowledge.

 

[JettaKnight]

Oh nonono,

I am not suggesting that we arm the unfit teachers at all, but rather force out those unfit people and replace them with capable adults.

So, we should kick out good teachers, and replace them with mediocre ones so long as they can prove they're tacticool? yeah, OK.

Hey China - we give up on trying to have smart students because we're replacing all the teachers that can't pass a combat course because America can't keep kids safe unless every teacher is armed.


And just where do you propose to get these? It's already hard enough to find people that want to suffer under low pay, long hours, onerous rules, and be vilified by the general public (because they're not good enough to meet your standard). You volunteering? I'm not because I know what sort of pain lies in those classrooms.


Having teachers armed is a good idea - I carry, so should they, if they are up to it.


But why stop at teachers? We had shootings at grocery stores & churches. Do you want to fire every checkout girl that isn't proficient? Should every pastor prove their handgun skills before getting an M.Div?

Being proficient with a handgun is a great asset, but demanding everyone to be is just living in LaLaLand.

Also, thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding regarding combat proficiency. I did in fact think that the only things required was the three rules and an occasional range day. This is probably due to my limited understanding of firearms and training.

Thank you for sharing from your knowledge.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

So, we should kick out good teachers, and replace them with mediocre ones so long as they can prove they're tacticool? yeah, OK.

Hey China - we give up on trying to have smart students because we're replacing all the teachers that can't pass a combat course because America can't keep kids safe unless every teacher is armed.


And just where do you propose to get these? It's already hard enough to find people that want to suffer under low pay, long hours, onerous rules, and be vilified by the general public (because they're not good enough to meet your standard). You volunteering? I'm not because I know what sort of pain lies in those classrooms.


Having teachers armed is a good idea - I carry, so should they, if they are up to it.


But why stop at teachers? We had shootings at grocery stores & churches. Do you want to fire every checkout girl that isn't proficient? Should every pastor prove their handgun skills before getting an M.Div?

Being proficient with a handgun is a great asset, but demanding everyone to be is just living in LaLaLand.

Lol,that is a funny picture. I don't understand it, but thanks for posting it, it lightens the mood.


I am not proposing to "get rid of good teachers", rather i am stating that those you are talking about are not actually good teachers.

You can totally hire competent teachers. You might have to pay them and you might have to treat the education system as something other than a jobs program for people not fit for employment in the private sector.

 

[JTScribe]

Are there any other sources confirming this?

That’s an AP story, dude. I’d say it’s as ironclad as it gets.

 

[BigRed]

Aaand they just threw Beto out of the news conference

Robert Francis is a good example of a piece of **** politician.

 

[BigRed]

Some additional information.

Wonder if he was "known to the fbi or local authorities".

 

[KellyinAvon]

Between the ditches, folks.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Heard.

 

[rooster]

Denny347 has never said that. More anti-cop emo masturbation from the most prolific purveyor of fake police news on the board.

If the report is correct, the responsible cops should be held to account both professionally and in the public square. But it's a bit early to be nailing them to the wall.

more or less in early posts in this thread. When you start putting all these together it starts to sound like someone is against private self defense especially anyone other than a cop being responsible for the security of a school.

Let’s have a little accountability here eh ?


Post in thread 'Uvalde Texas Killing'
https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/uvalde-texas-killing.521928/post-9170251

Arm and train teachers.

“The same ones who are deathly afraid of COVID? Riiiight. No one is any safer by arming sheep.”

Post in thread 'Uvalde Texas Killing'
https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/uvalde-texas-killing.521928/post-9170299

“There are brave teachers that would die for their kids. However, that is very different than purchasing a handgun, training with it, then having the will to take a person's life with it when pressed.”

Post in thread 'Uvalde Texas Killing'
https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/uvalde-texas-killing.521928/post-9170404

I've seen trained officers fail to pull the trigger when they should have. I'm sure those in the military who have gone to war can say the same thing about many of their fellow soldiers. Lots of practiced gun owners could NEVER take a life to save theirs or someone they love.

 

[churchmouse]

Once again I'm reminded to just stay in the bored thread.

I figured this could be a logical discussion of what happened and details, but no, we have to have this fictional God character brought into it

Unreal

Ok. You seem to have a passion to stomp on threads you do not see eye to eye with. I have set you off the play ground before so yes just keep yourself in that little low key easy going thread up north OK. Do this again and time out will be given.

Now to the rest, stop the God bashing or you will join him.
And stop shoving God up peoples tail sections. This is not the time or place for either. It is sending this discussion way off the rails on both sides.

Keep it on track. Good people have been taken from their family’s. It is beyond tragic and makes no sense but here we are. The mentally Ill drug abusing maniacs walk freely among us.

 

[churchmouse]

A couple years ago Coach testified in support of a bill authored by Jim Lucas that did just that. I was there and testified, Guy Relford was there and testified, Coach came and spoke from the heart.

Damn pollen count must be up.

I remember this.

 

[Tryin']

"Wow 40 minutes…..ask Denny though, only police officers will run to the sound of gunfire, combat vets and civilians Can’t and won’t pull the trigger when the time comes."

"Let’s have a little accountability here."

Yes, let's. Words have meaning and as usual, you chose poorly. Denny included all three groups in a series of statements concerning observed and recorded human behavioral tendencies. You twisted it into something he did not say, nor did he mean as observed by his posting history on this forum. Your posting history, on the other hand...

 

[churchmouse]

As to arming teachers.
Have you folks actually met any of the kids teachers. Sat with them I. P/T conference. You might reassess this thought if you have. I can not think of 1 teacher/admin I have met in the last 10 years of being around the grandkids that I would want to arm/train. Nothing like the teachers when I went to school.
Harden the buildings. Eliminate enough middle management positions that are political and actually have an armed presence in the building. Just doing that might deter a lot of the problems but it will generate more internal issues as the inmates are running some of the asylum’s.
This is a very deep and twisting rabbit hole.

 

[wtburnette]

As to arming teachers.
Have you folks actually met any of the kids teachers. Sat with them I. P/T conference. You might reassess this thought if you have. I can not think of 1 teacher/admin I have met in the last 10 years of being around the grandkids that I would want to arm/train. Nothing like the teachers when I went to school.
Harden the buildings. Eliminate enough middle management positions that are political and actually have an armed presence in the building. Just doing that might deter a lot of the problems but it will generate more internal issues as the inmates are running some of the asylum’s.
This is a very deep and twisting rabbit hole.

I'm a infosec guy, so I think in terms of layers. Allow training for any *competent" teachers who would be willing to carry, allow for armed guards, plus do what you're talking about above. As you say, it's a deep and multifaceted issue that won't be addressed by implementing one thing. On top of all of this, as Gov. Abbott said, we need to address mental health issues in this country. One thing we absolutely don't need is more gun laws that don't affect criminals.

 

[churchmouse]

I believe you are wise in understanding your limitations. But being a protector is also an honor and a privilege. There are many drawbacks one of the being you get to see humanity at their worse sometimes in their darkest hours, which is often difficult to put aside at the end of the day.

Being a 1st responder to witness the evil people can do to other people is a major hurdle. Living with this knowledge is another one.

Now I have to say the LEO bashing by the usual suspects is getting very old.
I should have stepped in here sooner but personal loss and other negative life issues had me in the negative side of dealing with this mindset I am seeing in this thread.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm a infosec guy, so I think in terms of layers. Allow training for any *competent" teachers who would be willing to carry, allow for armed guards, plus do what you're talking about above. As you say, it's a deep and multifaceted issue that won't be addressed by implementing one thing. On top of all of this, as Gov. Abbott said, we need to address mental health issues in this country. One thing we absolutely don't need is more gun laws that don't affect criminals.

To arm/train any members of the teaching staff would cause so much angst with the rainbow hair members and soft hand left leaning croup as to make life hard on them. Yet they seem to be needed in this sick society.
Mental health. The butt crack that shot up the rally for Gabby Giffords was a known psycho with a paper trail easily traced yet no one did a damned thing. Even the Sheriff that know of him.
This same thing is so prevalent in many of these situations yet no one does or says a thing. Let’s start there. One of the layers you mentioned. There are many more.

 

[two70]

As to arming teachers.
Have you folks actually met any of the kids teachers. Sat with them I. P/T conference. You might reassess this thought if you have. I can not think of 1 teacher/admin I have met in the last 10 years of being around the grandkids that I would want to arm/train. Nothing like the teachers when I went to school.
Harden the buildings. Eliminate enough middle management positions that are political and actually have an armed presence in the building. Just doing that might deter a lot of the problems but it will generate more internal issues as the inmates are running some of the asylum’s.
This is a very deep and twisting rabbit hole.

IMO, if I wouldn't trust a teacher with a firearm, I sure wouldn't trust them with teaching my kids. Teachers have far more opportunity to cause harm with their teaching than they likely ever will with a firearm.

 

[churchmouse]

IMO, if I wouldn't trust a teacher with a firearm, I sure wouldn't trust them with teaching my kids. Teachers have far more opportunity to cause harm with their teaching than they likely ever will with a firearm.

And this is exactly the reason I have been toe to toe with this misguided self important left leaning rainbow hair
…….I could go on.
The kids were coming home spouting anti-trump crap put in their heads by 3 different teachers. What a load of crap.
I took this all the way downtown.
Of course nothing ever came of it as to heads rolling but the 1st hand knowledge gained showed us that we were lost.
Put no faith in the system as we have not kept it in check.

 

[Bugzilla]

Maybe tic tic,twitter, Facebook, etc. could figure out how to create an algorithm that if you post I just shot, I’m going to shoot up, I’m going to blow up, I’m going to kill, etc, it would notify local authorities so they could respond appropriately.