Uvalde Texas Killing

[Ark]

I am fully aware of all the possibilities. So again, they should not try to secure and monitor entrances because someone determined enough will just find another way in? Might as well just let them through the front door unencumbered then I guess. Right?

I said in my original post that the first line of defense should at least be focused on securing and monitoring entrances so a shooter cannot just walk right in which probably a lot of schools don't even take that basic level of security. At least it appeared to not be in place in this case. I didn't say it should be the only measure taken.

I am hoping some real information comes out on this. A proper entry system with safety film glass should not have been able to be quickly penetrated by the killer and doors should not have been unlocked. He shouldn't have been able to get in, at least not quickly.

 

[Hoosierdood]

I disagree. Josh Duggar is being sentenced today on child porn charges. He is also guilty of molestation. He was taught right and wrong. He grew up in church, and had prayer every day. Still ended up being completely evil.

The solution is not bringing God back into schools, politics, public squares, etc. All humans are evil. Every one. The only hope for anyone is salvation through the blood of Jesus. Religion won’t do it. Prayer won’t do it. Only Jesus can. Teaching right/wrong in school won’t do anything without the change of heart that only comes through Jesus.

Sorry if I sound “preachy” but putting God back in schools won’t accomplish what only Jesus can do through a renewed heart, and it really bothers me to see so many members arguing over silly things like this.

Yes I do. God in schools is shorthand for teaching children right and wrong, that life is sacred, and that there is something bigger than you. You are just describing a ritual part of teaching god in schools.

 

[ghuns]

Imagine if the $40 billion we just sent to Ukraine was used to beef up security in our nation's schools.

 

[d.kaufman]

Seen a report that the 2 teachers and 19 students were all from the same 4th grade class.
What a ****ing monster! May he burn in hell for eternity!

 

[tackdriver]

Yes, as I have worked for school shooters, I can tell you they would pick other targets.

The law aids and abets the murderers.

Okay, since I don't have the mind of a potential school shooter, I can't disagree with you. But I think you're outside the parameters established. I was talking about "a gunman intent on causing casualties". The decision is made, location and pool of targets already
chosen, action initiated.

Does anybody here have a home alarm system for which they put a sign in their yard or sticker in their window?

If so, why?

If this is related, I have zero problem with deterrents. Anything that makes the bad actor go elsewhere is obviously good for those inside the school. (...maybe not for those at the nearby mall, park, or movie theater.) Using the home analogy, I'm talking about the person intent on getting into your home to do X, alarms be damned. If a sign in the yard motivates them to move on, they weren't that determined to get into that home. I also lock my doors in addition to the sign.

For the record, I'm against laws that prevent an otherwise "good guy" from carrying at work just because they are a teacher. Kids? I think they are just as precious when they are at the store, or the park, or at home. Why should they be more vulnerable at school?

The "real" I was trying to be was that a gun isn't a magic force-field. Just having one inside the school isn't going to prevent a determined vile creature. Other measures are needed, like... locked doors that at least buy some time and sound the alarm.

In this immediate case, the school may not have been the intended target. He just got chased there, and ran in.

 

[KG1]

I am hoping some real information comes out on this. A proper entry system with safety film glass should not have been able to be quickly penetrated by the killer and doors should not have been unlocked. He shouldn't have been able to get in, at least not quickly.

Any measure to encumber a shooter from making an easy entry should be in place even if to slow them down further giving additional crucial minutes for an armed response to engage.

 

[KG1]

Seen a report that the 2 teachers and 19 students were all from the same 4th grade class.
What a ****ing monster! May he burn in hell for eternity!

Saw that report too. They were all located in the same classroom that he entered first.

 

[Ark]

Any measure to encumber a shooter from making an easy entry should be in place even if to slow them down further giving additional crucial minutes for an armed response to engage.

Has it been clarified how the truck was crashed or whether he was actually being actively pursued by LE? In that case 30 seconds could have been the difference.

 

[tackdriver]

9 pages and a lot of fighting/arguing amongst ourselves. We as gun owners and protectors of the 2nd amendment need to quit this infighting amongst ourselves and really work hard towards a reliable solution. Do I have a solution? No. But there are many many intelligent people on here and in a concerted effort without all the bull**** ranting and raving.

I realize the rants and raves are many of us in frustration and fear for anyone we know in a school situation. No one wants this to happen. But it does and will continue until we devise some solutions/protections.



What to do? I don't know. But what we are doing isn't working. Can we actually create a thread on brainstorming ideas to help provide solutions?

With due respect, the ranting and whatnot IS a process for vetting ideas and building better ones. It's not the best, but hey, this is an internet forum, not an established committee or anything. I think INGO is much more respectful and thoughtful than just about any forum, platform, etc. I've encountered. It's the reason I keep logging in.

When I hear a member, someone with similar beliefs to my own (very similar compared to the whole of society), ranting and saying things that just don't seem right - it stands out to me. I ask myself "where did that SOB come up with a half-witt idea like that?" Then I think about it a little. Maybe learn a whole new perspective, often from others with better experience and knowledge on the topic. I don't think I react that way to most of the keyboard experts you find elsewhere. I simply ignore them as idiots.

"Can we actually create a thread on brainstorming ideas to help provide solutions? " Sure - go start one. I'll be happy to participate if I see it. That's not sarcasm or being snide. I mean it with sincere respect.

 

[tackdriver]

Then they are not qualified to be teaching either…

I'm not disagreeing - and many of them are not. Unfortunately, we only get to pick from the available pool. Like other professions, many that would be great for the job, simply don't want to do it.

If we want better teachers, we need to make the job more attractive AND have better processes to weed out the bad once there are better options. Until then, we get TikTok Karen with her CRT and socialist training. I still don't want them to have ready access to a gun.

 

[KG1]

Has it been clarified how the truck was crashed or whether he was actually being actively pursued by LE? In that case 30 seconds could have been the difference.

Not sure. I saw one report early on that he was being pursued for a shooting at his grandmother's house, but I haven't seen anything further to confirm if that's what caused him to crash..

 

[HoughMade]

Imagine if the $40 billion we just sent to Ukraine was used to beef up security in our nation's schools.

Hah!

I'm imagining it and I am imagining that nothing would change.

This would still be money funneled through the same bureaucracies.

Money won't fix this. Possibly nothing could at this point.

 

[deo62]

Aaand they just threw Beto out of the news conference

 

[deo62]

Think the Lt Governor called him a sick SOB

 

[jerrob]

1) Working locks.
2) Real life, bad-ass LEOs with a zero BS absorption rate inside schools.
3) The people in charge of #1 & #2 held accountable when/if they don't do their job.
These are defenseless children dependant on US to protect them
Schools already have locks, most communities already have a police service and I dont know of anyplace deficient of politicians, so the cost to fund this wouldn't be impossible.
Or..................we could do dick, wait until it happens again and just ground hog day this to eternity.

 

[KG1]

Some additional information.

 

[Sylvain]

The idiots that yell about GUNS GUNS GUNS...

Ask them what they think would happen, if the same person goes into a classroom with a KNIFE.
Do they think things would go different?

We had 87 people killed by a truck driver in 2016 in France.
And the killer/driver was only stopped because a good guy finally showed up with a gun.

Nobody proposed to ban trucks after the attack.
Not sure why they focus on guns after attacks in America.

It's literally insane.

In countries where people cannot own guns, like in China, they have deadly knife attacks all the time in schools.
With sometimes over 20 people stabbed.

I'm no expert but focusing on the gun is leading people to ignore other actions that could limit or prevent events like that to happen.

1) Stop making schools "gun free zones", allow all school staffs to be armed.
You are only keeping the good guys from being armed.
If they are legally armed outside of school they should be allowed to be armed inside.

Get armed guards in every schools.

Mass shootings always happen in so-called "gun free zones", you rarely have those in police stations where you know people are armed.

2) Train every adults and kids in bleeding control.
Have trauma kits everywhere in the school like you have fire extinguishers and AEDs.

3) Provide access to mental health professionals.
Every student should be able to get free counseling at their school.
In most instance the killer/shooter is a student of the school.


Keeping good people from owning guns is not the solution, more gun laws is not the answer.
Gun ownership is already too restricted even in the States ... we have seen what happens in countries where the civilian population doesn't have access to guns (recently with Ukraine).

 

[hoosierdoc]

Imagine if the $40 billion we just sent to Ukraine was used to beef up security in our nation's schools.

How would the $40B be spent to prevent this?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Aaand they just threw Beto out of the news conference

Heckling moron

 

[Cameramonkey]

Heckling moron

I hope that idiot gets burned by that outrageous stunt.