Uvalde Texas Killing

[BE Mike]

I'm waiting on the details. Three in particular:

1. What is it that the shooter originally set out to do? Seems he obviously had something in mind when he left the house.
2. Why was LE chasing him in the first place? Because of his Grandma? A tip or investigation?
3. How did he get into the school, and was it the Cafeteria or something? Lots of kids and staff, different ages.

If the grandmother survives, some of the questions may be answered. I also am concerned about how he gained access to the school.

 

[KG1]

If the grandmother survives, some of the questions may be answered. I also am concerned about how he gained access to the school.

Seems to me he didn't have much preventing him from entering. He could've possibly just walked right in. If that's the case then the school wasn't properly prepared to protect the children from such a terrible event happening.

 

[Farmerjon]

9 pages and a lot of fighting/arguing amongst ourselves. We as gun owners and protectors of the 2nd amendment need to quit this infighting amongst ourselves and really work hard towards a reliable solution. Do I have a solution? No. But there are many many intelligent people on here and in a concerted effort without all the bull**** ranting and raving.

I realize the rants and raves are many of us in frustration and fear for anyone we know in a school situation. No one wants this to happen. But it does and will continue until we devise some solutions/protections.

First of all I am a shop teacher and have been since 1986. I was on a Sheriff's Posse for over 8 years with full arrest powers and actually was deputized for both Starke and Lake Counties. Lake county's posse was decorative only, a few of us were deputized and provided security for the rodeos at DC Junction back in the day. I also drive a morning and afternoon bus route and quite honestly think that is the next target. Lay in the weeds at a RR crossing, jump on the bus and execute everyone.

I agree many teachers, just like many other people in many other occupations would make excellent gun carriers and protectors for the students. I also agree that many teacher, just like many other people in many other occupations would NOT make excellent gun carriers and protectors.

Years ago a sister had a stalker and she lived way down South. Dad asked me to help her learn to use a handgun and be proficient to protect herself. She was up for a week so we started with some of my handguns and dad was going to buy her whatever fit and she felt most comfortable with. We went through basics of gun handling and then she was becoming pretty good. Started talking about her house and where this gun would be, where he could enter, where she would retreat to and things like that. Her stairway had 3 or 4 steps then took a left and then about 10 steps to the top landing. I started questioning her when she would shoot him. She said she would fire warning shots but couldn't shoot him. Eventually dad never bought her a gun and I told her she had no business owning one as the stalker would just walk up to her and kill her with her own gun. It is a personal decision to what level of protection you will provide for yourself and loved ones.

Every night I suited up in uniform and checked my handgun, I asked myself if I was ready to kill someone for whatever situation they put me in. If I had ever told myself no, I would have quit then and there.

Mental health has been on the decline since they changed the mental hospitals into prisons. Baetty's (sp?) in Westville closed, let the patients out, became Westville prison and eventually got most of the patients back. Now I have read and know that mental hospitals could also be horrible places, but with the general population we reap the "benefits" of their being released. Now we see the numbers increase of mental problems.

What to do? I don't know. But what we are doing isn't working. Can we actually create a thread on brainstorming ideas to help provide solutions?

Quite honestly, if this thread were shown on the nightly news, it would show our disregard and lack of apathy and hopelessness.

 

[radar8756]

I agree. The first line of defense that should be addressed is fortifying entrances and make if more difficult for a shooter to gain access.

Lock the doors is Good - but someone determined to get in will just Break a Window ...

 

[KG1]

9 pages and a lot of fighting/arguing amongst ourselves. We as gun owners and protectors of the 2nd amendment need to quit this infighting amongst ourselves and really work hard towards a reliable solution. Do I have a solution? No. But there are many many intelligent people on here and in a concerted effort without all the bull**** ranting and raving.

I realize the rants and raves are many of us in frustration and fear for anyone we know in a school situation. No one wants this to happen. But it does and will continue until we devise some solutions/protections.

First of all I am a shop teacher and have been since 1986. I was on a Sheriff's Posse for over 8 years with full arrest powers and actually was deputized for both Starke and Lake Counties. Lake county's posse was decorative only, a few of us were deputized and provided security for the rodeos at DC Junction back in the day. I also drive a morning and afternoon bus route and quite honestly think that is the next target. Lay in the weeds at a RR crossing, jump on the bus and execute everyone.

I agree many teachers, just like many other people in many other occupations would make excellent gun carriers and protectors for the students. I also agree that many teacher, just like many other people in many other occupations would NOT make excellent gun carriers and protectors.

Years ago a sister had a stalker and she lived way down South. Dad asked me to help her learn to use a handgun and be proficient to protect herself. She was up for a week so we started with some of my handguns and dad was going to buy her whatever fit and she felt most comfortable with. We went through basics of gun handling and then she was becoming pretty good. Started talking about her house and where this gun would be, where he could enter, where she would retreat to and things like that. Her stairway had 3 or 4 steps then took a left and then about 10 steps to the top landing. I started questioning her when she would shoot him. She said she would fire warning shots but couldn't shoot him. Eventually dad never bought her a gun and I told her she had no business owning one as the stalker would just walk up to her and kill her with her own gun. It is a personal decision to what level of protection you will provide for yourself and loved ones.

Every night I suited up in uniform and checked my handgun, I asked myself if I was ready to kill someone for whatever situation they put me in. If I had ever told myself no, I would have quit then and there.

Mental health has been on the decline since they changed the mental hospitals into prisons. Baetty's (sp?) in Westville closed, let the patients out, became Westville prison and eventually got most of the patients back. Now I have read and know that mental hospitals could also be horrible places, but with the general population we reap the "benefits" of their being released. Now we see the numbers increase of mental problems.

What to do? I don't know. But what we are doing isn't working. Can we actually create a thread on brainstorming ideas to help provide solutions?

Quite honestly, if this thread were shown on the nightly news, it would show our disregard and lack of apathy and hopelessness.

I agree that it's not enough to just have a firearm. One also has to have a plan and at least some amount of skill to handle a firearm and the willingness to execute that plan to protect themselves. Without all that having a firearm is pretty much useless and could even potentially get you killed by turning your own firearm against you like you pointed out.

 

[Ingomike]

As a Christian, I'm embarrassed by some this. In America, in the last century, we never really "had God in schools". Does anyone really think that a prayer before the football game is really going to create strong morals and good theology?

Yes I do. God in schools is shorthand for teaching children right and wrong, that life is sacred, and that there is something bigger than you. You are just describing a ritual part of teaching god in schools.

 

[BigRed]

Threats to Public Safety on the Rise, ATF Nominee Warns Lawmakers

Steven Dettelbach, President Biden's nominee to serve as director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), said his "thoughts are very much with the community in Texas that are suffering so deeply," as he addressed the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas, during his...

www.c-span.org

Confirmation hearing for nominations (including atf director) beginning now.

 

[KG1]

Lock the doors is Good - but someone determined to get in will just Break a Window ...

Ok. Sure that's a possibility. I guess someone determined could also gain access through a ventilation duct. Geeez. Might as well not lock the doors because they will just come in the window anyway if you do. So it's fruitless to even try.

 

[KLB]

Does anybody here have a home alarm system for which they put a sign in their yard or sticker in their window?

If so, why?

The schools by me have a marked squad car sitting outside the front door of the schools.

 

[radar8756]

Ok. Sure that's a possibility. I guess someone determined could also gain access through a ventilation duct. Geeez. Might as well not lock the doors because they will just come in the window anyway if you do..

It's similar to locking the door to your House / Business - it deters non-motivated Criminals - but someone that really wants in will find a way

I have seen reports of Criminals breaking in through Skylights or Cutting a hole in the Roof

 

[Ingomike]

Does anybody here have a home alarm system for which they put a sign in their yard or sticker in their window?

If so, why?

I do not, but they think it will deter a criminal to an easier target, and maybe some might but for others it is like telling them what they have to do to break in. LOL

 

[yeahbaby]

9 pages and a lot of fighting/arguing amongst ourselves. We as gun owners and protectors of the 2nd amendment need to quit this infighting amongst ourselves and really work hard towards a reliable solution. Do I have a solution? No. But there are many many intelligent people on here and in a concerted effort without all the bull**** ranting and raving.

I realize the rants and raves are many of us in frustration and fear for anyone we know in a school situation. No one wants this to happen. But it does and will continue until we devise some solutions/protections.

First of all I am a shop teacher and have been since 1986. I was on a Sheriff's Posse for over 8 years with full arrest powers and actually was deputized for both Starke and Lake Counties. Lake county's posse was decorative only, a few of us were deputized and provided security for the rodeos at DC Junction back in the day. I also drive a morning and afternoon bus route and quite honestly think that is the next target. Lay in the weeds at a RR crossing, jump on the bus and execute everyone.

I agree many teachers, just like many other people in many other occupations would make excellent gun carriers and protectors for the students. I also agree that many teacher, just like many other people in many other occupations would NOT make excellent gun carriers and protectors.

Years ago a sister had a stalker and she lived way down South. Dad asked me to help her learn to use a handgun and be proficient to protect herself. She was up for a week so we started with some of my handguns and dad was going to buy her whatever fit and she felt most comfortable with. We went through basics of gun handling and then she was becoming pretty good. Started talking about her house and where this gun would be, where he could enter, where she would retreat to and things like that. Her stairway had 3 or 4 steps then took a left and then about 10 steps to the top landing. I started questioning her when she would shoot him. She said she would fire warning shots but couldn't shoot him. Eventually dad never bought her a gun and I told her she had no business owning one as the stalker would just walk up to her and kill her with her own gun. It is a personal decision to what level of protection you will provide for yourself and loved ones.

Every night I suited up in uniform and checked my handgun, I asked myself if I was ready to kill someone for whatever situation they put me in. If I had ever told myself no, I would have quit then and there.

Mental health has been on the decline since they changed the mental hospitals into prisons. Baetty's (sp?) in Westville closed, let the patients out, became Westville prison and eventually got most of the patients back. Now I have read and know that mental hospitals could also be horrible places, but with the general population we reap the "benefits" of their being released. Now we see the numbers increase of mental problems.

What to do? I don't know. But what we are doing isn't working. Can we actually create a thread on brainstorming ideas to help provide solutions?

Quite honestly, if this thread were shown on the nightly news, it would show our disregard and lack of apathy and hopelessness.

Excellent post.

 

[tmschuller]

Your wife must be one of the 5% or so teachers that identify as conservative. There are brave teachers that would die for their kids. However, that is very different than purchasing a handgun, training with it, then having the will to take a person's life with it when pressed. Teachers like your wife are rare in that field. Almost unicorn status.

I have three in the family.. wife included. One has been to the firearm certified training. So add 3 more to almost unicorn status.
Tragic situation and how many families affected should be what everyone should be thinking not their ****** agenda. Media sucks the weeny more and more.

 

[Gabriel]

9 pages and a lot of fighting/arguing amongst ourselves.

To be fair, most of it wasn't firearm related at all.

 

[tsm]

Clearly you can't stop determined B&E, so the first step should be to slow down a shooter's access to the interior of a school as much as possible. The goal is to buy time for defensive measures (move students to safer areas if possible) if the in-progress intrusion can be detected, alarms/calls to authorities to obtain additional help, prep and appropriate relocation of any armed teachers/resource officers, etc.

Like most businesses do with fire drills, practice a simulated intrusion a few times each year to find and eliminate any weaknesses as much as possible. Permanently halting a shooter before they can get close enough to do damage should help, but wishing it will happen without some effort & expense is unlikely to be successful. Have no idea how you can protect people when kids are entering the building at the start of the day or exiting after school; that's a real tough one!

 

[Shadow01]

a BIG NO THANKS! I appreciate your thinking, and would agree under other circumstances. From what I've seen, many of the teachers and faculty are exactly the triggered Karen's that I DON'T want to have rapid access to deadly force. They are not mature, not mentally stable, and more likely should be prohibited possessors.

I'm worried enough about: 1. a gov't police state; and 2. the 're-education and indoctrination day-camp' that our schools have become. The thought of combining these two should scare the out of us all!!

My apologies to the fantastic people who are teachers. I know you're out there, but you're the exception to the rule. Even amongst the exceptions, those with the mindset to carry, train, and use, are still rare. I can only recall a few in my lifetime that fit. One was a shop teacher (we no longer seem to have those), and one was a former state police officer.

Nope - I think even if I were a teacher, spending time in the teachers lounge with my "peers" would make even me say "teachers shouldn't have guns at school".

Then they are not qualified to be teaching either…

 

[Farmerjon]

Clearly you can't stop determined B&E, so the first step should be to slow down a shooter's access to the interior of a school as much as possible. The goal is to buy time for defensive measures (move students to safer areas if possible) if the in-progress intrusion can be detected, alarms/calls to authorities to obtain additional help, prep and appropriate relocation of any armed teachers/resource officers, etc.

Like most businesses do with fire drills, practice a simulated intrusion a few times each year to find and eliminate any weaknesses as much as possible. Permanently halting a shooter before they can get close enough to do damage should help, but wishing it will happen without some effort & expense is unlikely to be successful. Have no idea how you can protect people when kids are entering the building at the start of the day or exiting after school; that's a real tough one!

And don't forget, through these drills, the enemy is among us so they learn where kids are hidden or secreted away. Our fire drills now we are to stay in our rooms until someone okays it over the loud speaker. Otherwise the shooter can be in the woods and an inside helper pulls the alarm and targets exit the building. Unless it is determined to be real or planned, we do not exit the building now.

 

[DragonGunner]

Cain killed Abel....when only a very few people were on earth. No one had ever killed before and there were no guns. Some men are born and they choose love of others to guide them. Some are born and they chose hate to guide them. Get rid of all the guns and IMHO you open the door for even more killing, as we have seen in many countries that banned guns, one part of the population is murdered by those with the guns only.
God and the bible was in the schools, back when all schools were private....there was no public schools until the 1800's when PA started them and they were only for poor families. Fast forward 100 years and the government kicks God and bible out of public schools. All morals come from God, as Jordan Peterson so well puts it. But there was murders even back in those days, though I doubt as many. The point is people always have and always will kill each other. Hannity had Dan Bongino and Geraldo Rivera on last night. Dan was spot on while Gerlado argued no 18 yr old should have a rifle, his logic was at 18 you can't buy a beer. Dan shut him down pretty good. Sure if we had less rifles or very little to no firearms there may be a cut back on murders from the evil and mental cases.....however with that comes the threat many more would die when a political group decides to kill off the opposition. Thus why are wise forefathers put in the 2A....has nothing to do with muskets like Geraldo thinks.

The only way to stop a bad man with a gun is for a good man to have a gun. And the police are outnumbered. Taking away guns or making more laws or bans won't ever stop evil. But some people can't be convinced. Make all the bans and laws you want....Cain is still killing Abel.

 

[Shadow01]

Not sure what a "freak" is.

I think most dictionaries have a definition for the word

 

[KG1]

It's similar to locking the door to your House / Business - it deters non-motivated Criminals - but someone that really wants in will find a way

I have seen reports of Criminals breaking in through Skylights or Cutting a hole in the Roof

I am fully aware of all the possibilities. So again, they should not try to secure and monitor entrances because someone determined enough will just find another way in? Might as well just let them through the front door unencumbered then I guess. Right?

I said in my original post that the first line of defense should at least be focused on securing and monitoring entrances so a shooter cannot just walk right in which probably a lot of schools don't even take that basic level of security. At least it appeared to not be in place in this case. I didn't say it should be the only measure taken.