Trump's position on Gun Free Zones

[chipbennett]

--Donald Trump, The America We Deserve

...because people can't change their views over the course of a decade and a half?

 

[steveh_131]

...because people can't change their views over the course of a decade and a half?

Of course they can. The question is why? At his age, I don't believe for a single second that he changed his views because he suddenly cares about the constitution or individual liberty.

 

[chipbennett]

Of course they can. The question is why? At his age, I don't believe for a single second that he changed his views because he suddenly cares about the constitution or individual liberty.

I am more than willing to concede that his life experiences over that time have led to a change in his viewpoint.

That said: I'm not on the Trump Train yet, because I'm not sure that I trust him, either. I'm still very much in observation mode, although I think he's going to win the Republican nomination, and the general election, with or without my enthusiastic support.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I am more than willing to concede that his life experiences over that time have led to a change in his viewpoint.

That said: I'm not on the Trump Train yet, because I'm not sure that I trust him, either. I'm still very much in observation mode, although I think he's going to win the Republican nomination, and the general election, with or without my enthusiastic support.

You really think he's going to win?

 

[chipbennett]

You really think he's going to win?

At this point, just based on comparative voter enthusiasm? Yes. Trump is drawing huge crowds - and crowds that are comprised not of hard-right types, but of center/center-right Reagan majority types.

 

[Jludo]

My Daddy always said "Wish in one hand and s**t in the other and see which one fills up first."



Nixon surprised me when he kept his promise to pull the troops out of Viet Nam.
Reagan pleased me when he kept promises.
Opie has kept his promise to fundamentally transform America.



It would be nice if he were to say it, but he hasn't. He can't seem too conservative that would render him un-electable. Like Trump.



So who else has said it?





Good find.

I am not a Trump apologist, I just don't see others on the platform making policy statements. As for Trump "just saying things to convince us he is conservative", why would he want to alienate the anti's? Why would he want to curry favor with the conservative base?

Can a person actually change their mind? I have.

Every other candidate that has been foisted upon us recently has pandered to the left to thy to get the "independent" vote.

I don't see Trump Pandering to the left. Has anyone ever pandered to the right?

Has anyone ever pandered to the right in a Republican Primary?

 

[2A_Tom]

Has anyone ever pandered to the right in a Republican Primary?

Not since Reagan, I personally believe he was genuine.

Gold water may have been the last "totally right" candidate. Even Reagan had some remnants of his democrat past.

Sorry, I guess that the last few nominees have tried to portray themselves as conservative, totally unconvincingly I must say.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Of course they can. The question is why? At his age, I don't believe for a single second that he changed his views because he suddenly cares about the constitution or individual liberty.

I think his sons may have influenced him on the gun rights and hunting issues over the years.
A 2016 GOP Candidate?s Sons Are Under Fire for Big Game Hunting?Like Killer of Cecil the Lion

Donald Trump supports son's brutal hunting spree after photo's are released/Pics | Examiner.com

 

[JettaKnight]

Keep on eating what Trump is serving.

 

[steveh_131]

I think his sons may have influenced him on the gun rights and hunting issues over the years.

Yeah, and that bothers me. I don't want a candidate whose principles swivel at the whim of whatever he happens to find interesting at the time. Oh, my boys like guns? Well then, GUNS FOR EVERYBODY!

That's ridiculous. How about gun rights because it's in the constitution? How about gun rights because the government has no authority or right to take them from us? What, he hadn't heard of the 2nd Amendment until 10 years ago and all of a sudden decided that maybe that amendment is ok after all?

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Yeah, and that bothers me. I don't want a candidate whose principles swivel at the whim of whatever he happens to find interesting at the time. Oh, my boys like guns? Well then, GUNS FOR EVERYBODY!

That's ridiculous. How about gun rights because it's in the constitution? How about gun rights because the government has no authority or right to take them from us? What, he hadn't heard of the 2nd Amendment until 10 years ago and all of a sudden decided that maybe that amendment is ok after all?

Easy, I'm not on the Trump Train, just making observations. In a perfect world he would support the 2A based on principles, I'm just pointing out that everyone starts somewhere and that his sons may have been the catalyst for a positive change in his 2A stance. FWIW, I don't think most people start out pro-2A based purely on principles, they start into guns for a multitude of reasons (self defense, hunting tool, fun, etc.) and then grow into it (sometimes they even grow on INGO!).

 

[2A_Tom]

Yeah, and that bothers me. I don't want a candidate whose principles swivel at the whim of whatever he happens to find interesting at the time. Oh, my boys like guns? Well then, GUNS FOR EVERYBODY!

That's ridiculous. How about gun rights because it's in the constitution? How about gun rights because the government has no authority or right to take them from us? What, he hadn't heard of the 2nd Amendment until 10 years ago and all of a sudden decided that maybe that amendment is ok after all?

I love that when some one makes a statement about Trump that becomes the narrative. Trump hates Islam, he thinks Kruz is ineligible,
now he is for guns only because his sons like them. His statements say that the 2A is Constitutional, but someone says something controversial and the weak minded swallow it hook line and sinker.

 

[steveh_131]

Easy, I'm not on the Trump Train, just making observations. In a perfect world he would support the 2A based on principles, I'm just pointing out that everyone starts somewhere and that his sons may have been the catalyst for a positive change in his 2A stance. FWIW, I don't think most people start out pro-2A based purely on principles, they start into guns for a multitude of reasons (self defense, hunting tool, fun, etc.) and then grow into it (sometimes they even grow on INGO!).

I agree with you. But I want a candidate who uses the word 'liberty'. Who considers liberty when he makes his choices. I do not want a candidate who could very well trash my gun rights as soon as he changes his mind about their 'safety' or whatever he has used to make this change.

I love that when some one makes a statement about Trump that becomes the narrative. Trump hates Islam, he thinks Kruz is ineligible,
now he is for guns only because his sons like them. His statements say that the 2A is Constitutional, but someone says something controversial and the weak minded swallow it hook line and sinker.

Yes, the people who are skeptical of the statements of presidential candidates are the weak minded. That makes perfect sense.

 

[2A_Tom]

Steveh, Trump didn't say keep all muslims out, but keep them out until the vetting process is fixed. But the MSM portrays him as a Muslim hater. The weak minded believe anything the MSM TELLS THEM.

Trump didn't say he changed his mind on guns because his sons like guns. Someone on this board said it and it must be true because you read it on the internet.

Trump didn't raise the question of whether Cruz was eligible, some Sunday morning pundunce asked him about it and he said he didn't know, but the uninformed will believe Trump started it.

I will admit he seems to have taken the bait.
Every time these candidates let the MSM crowd use them use them it taints the perceptions of some.

 

[Jludo]

Steveh, Trump didn't say keep all muslims out, but keep them out until the vetting process is fixed. But the MSM portrays him as a Muslim hater. The weak minded believe anything the MSM TELLS THEM.

Trump didn't say he changed his mind on guns because his sons like guns. Someone on this board said it and it must be true because you read it on the internet.

Trump didn't raise the question of whether Cruz was eligible, some Sunday morning pundunce asked him about it and he said he didn't know, but the uninformed will believe Trump started it.

I will admit he seems to have taken the bait.
Every time these candidates let the MSM crowd use them use them it taints the perceptions of some.

Like trump doesn't know exactly what he's doing, hah "trump took the bait"? What are you talking about did you see any of those interviews? It doesn't take a genius to see what trumps doing, I think most everyone recognizes it. He sure as hell isn't being "baited by the media". Hes the one taking the media (and apparently 30% of republicans) for a ride.

 

[AA&E]

You really think he's going to win?

At this point, just based on comparative voter enthusiasm? Yes. Trump is drawing huge crowds - and crowds that are comprised not of hard-right types, but of center/center-right Reagan majority types.

So do you Kut, and it scares the **** out of left leaning people like yourself. And the sweet irony is it scares the **** out of the right leaning establishment as well. That is why both sides attempt to discredit him at every opportunity. This isn't the first time Trump has ran and he certainly never required this amount of political voodoo in previous years. Why is that? Both sides of the establishment are fearful because they see and electorate that has grown tired of lying, manipulative, bastards furthering their own interests and disregarding those they have been elected to represent. This electorate awakening has only occurred on one side of the aisle unfortunately. Once people that think more leftist wake the hell up, see their establishment candidates are no different then ours, we can start making strides toward perfecting this broken system.

You have a woman front runner for the democratic presidential nomination that has been in 'public service' for her entire life... that has amassed a fortune of $100's of millions in personal, corporate, and 'foundation' assets. A personal fortunate alone exceeding $50 million.... (which how does a public servant accomplish that?) all while preaching the dogma of income inequality and distribution of wealth. Liberal people fail to see the disparity between the sales pitch and reality. She is as much in bed with Wall Street, big business as any candidate running... but she wants to be the champion for the small guy? The Citizens United decision guaranteed dollars went to buy the best political representation money can buy, and corporate America (both sides of the aisle) are getting something for their money.

I wish everyone could awaken to this fact. The fact he doesn't have to be indebted to any special interest to get to this point, is from my perspective, the most (possibly only?) appealing thing about Trump.

 

[2A_Tom]

So do you Kut, and it scares the **** out of left leaning people like yourself. And the sweet irony is it scares the **** out of the left leaning Republican establishment as well. That is why both sides attempt to discredit him at every opportunity. This isn't the first time Trump has ran and he certainly never required this amount of political voodoo in previous years. Why is that? Both sides of the establishment are fearful because they see and electorate that has grown tired of lying, manipulative, bastards furthering their own interests and disregarding those they have been elected to represent. This electorate awakening has only occurred on one side of the aisle unfortunately. Once people that think more leftist wake the hell up, see their establishment candidates are no different then ours, we can start making strides toward perfecting this broken system.

You have a woman front runner for the democratic presidential nomination that has been in 'public service' for her entire life... that has amassed a fortune of $100's of millions in personal, corporate, and 'foundation' assets. A personal fortunate alone exceeding $50 million.... (which how does a public servant accomplish that?) all while preaching the dogma of income inequality and distribution of wealth. Liberal people fail to see the disparity between the sales pitch and reality. She is as much in bed with Wall Street, big business as any candidate running... but she wants to be the champion for the small guy? The Citizens United decision guaranteed dollars went to buy the best political representation money can buy, and corporate America (both sides of the aisle) are getting something for their money.

I wish everyone could awaken to this fact. The fact he doesn't have to be indebted to any special interest to get to this point, is from my perspective, the most (possibly only?) appealing thing about Trump.

FIFY

 

[Bill of Rights]

All 50 states issue such licenses to their own residents. On the basis of the second amendment (RKBA), fourteenth amendment (equal protection of the laws), and numerous court decisions, it is entirely appropriate and constitutional for the federal government to require reciprocity of state-issued resident carry licenses.

At least according to their state laws they do. As long as you're connected enough, rich enough, or powerful enough. Even were I foolish enough to move to California tomorrow, I can guarantee that I would not be issued a permit out there. Likewise NJ, MD, etc.

You really think he's going to win?

Will he win? Hard to say. If he gets the nomination, and if Hillary is the opponent, it will be SNAFU (and we all know what those letters stand for) Given what Obama did in 2008 and again in 2012- that is, focusing on the big cities and essentially wiping his backside with "fly-over country", I think the Dems will use that strategy again. Trump is a loud and outspoken person who, I agree, is saying things many want to hear. I think he's taken a page from the dem playbook, drawing dem attention HERE LOOK AT ME I'M THE THREAT YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT while at the same time, drawing GOP attention with HEY LOOK AT ME I'M SAYING EVERYTHING YOU LIKE AND NOT AFRAID TO STAND UP TO EITHER SIDE so that whoever actually gets the nomination will probably be a reasonable, rational guy and make both sides wipe their foreheads with a "Phew! Dodged THAT bullet!" thought.
I don't know that I trust Trump. He had some screwy views in the past, as noted upthread, but yes, he COULD have changed his thinking. When we see someone Zumbo himself, we often wonder why that person didn't look at history and see people like Zumbo who have gone before them, and ask why they didn't educate themselves. Maybe, just maybe, Trump DID. Maybe he sat down with an adviser and said, in his not-for-public-disclosure voice, "OK, I need to appeal to these people. School me. Let me see how they think." And, as I can attest from personal experience, when "our side" is presented and the person listening is really listening to it, processing it, seeing (maybe for the first time) what things fit together and what things require a suspension of disbelief... Maybe he truly has changed his views.

For me, the house of cards fell when I was forced to consider the ramifications of a minimum wage, and how all it does is raise everyone's prices to compensate, resulting in "the little guy" having higher numbers in the bank, but paradoxically, less buying power. As a result, if THIS has been a lie all along, then THAT is suspect, too... and one thing after another on that side of the various discussions fell to a logical examination of each item on its merits or lack thereof. A few theoretically "left" concepts survived: "drug war"? Really? "War on terror"? Are you for real? Tell me... just how do you "win" against an opponent that cannot surrender or be destroyed. To quote "V for Vendetta", "...behind this mask is an idea, and ideas are bulletproof" (which is also why the "war on guns" will fail... the tech exists. Once developed, the genie cannot return to the bottle.)

Will Trump win the nomination? Dunno. I don't know if I trust him, but I know that of the ideas I've heard expressed by candidates on both sides, I find his... well, not more appealing, but less frightening than the socialist paradise the Left wants to promise us.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[steveh_131]

Trump didn't say he changed his mind on guns because his sons like guns. Someone on this board said it and it must be true because you read it on the internet.

I didn't say that was true, I was responding to speculation. That was simply someone else's hypothesis. There are only two reasons to support gun rights that are acceptable for a candidate that I'm going to vote for: Because it's in the constitution, and because it is necessary to protect individual liberty. Neither one of these are things that old men like Trump generally just flip their opinions on. It is far more likely that he either A) Decided that gun ownership is not as bad as he thought it was, or (more likely) B) Realized that supporting it was a winning platform.

I've watched him speak. Nothing he says indicates to me that individual liberty is his priority.

I didn't comment on his view of Muslims or Cruz, that part probably should have been directed at someone else.

 

[JettaKnight]

The fact he doesn't have to be indebted to any special interest to get to this point, is from my perspective, the most (possibly only?) appealing thing about Trump.

For realz? So you don't care if he believe the stuff he says, but because there's no 'special interest', it all good?

FYI, the NRA is a 'special interest group' that funds politicians. So do you eschew politicians that accept NRA money, which traces back to us gun owners? Do you have a complaint when politicians feel indebted to the NRA for their victory? Or are you hypocritical about special interest?

When Trump takes campaign finances in the general election will you feel like he stabbed you in the back, so you'll just stay home on election day?


The guy loves nothing more than money. You can't tell me that you think his agenda is going to be directed by his moral compass. No, it's going to point SS America straight to whichever gold coast makes him money and makes him popular. What has he done in his life that doesn't involve (A) making him money or (B) making him famous, which makes him money?

His relationships? Once they stopped benefiting him, done and out.

Television? (A) and (B)


Talk up gun rights, walls, etc.? Whatever it takes to get elected. If the political winds blew a different direction and he thought the Dems would offer him a better chance of election, then he'd be talking up gun control and amnesty.

How do you think he'd treat you if you were his employee?

Now, you want to make him your president?

What track record does he have when it comes to rewarding those that vote for him? Oh that's right, he's never been elected to any public office.