Trump 2024 ???

[BugI02]

Looks like Andy McCarthy is a "never again." Here is just a few snippets from his National Review article in which he goes into further detail on why he won't vote for DT again. It's a rather lengthy piece and it will most likely end up behind a paywall so that's why I posted a few here.

Why It Has to Be Trump

It is striking to consider the number of conservatives and Republican stalwarts who insist that Trump should not run in 2024 and should cede the field to Ron DeSantis. I have come across this argument...

pjmedia.com

It is true that Trump is neither elegant, conciliatory, nor urbane, but he should be judged on his record, not his lack of refinement and gentility. And his presidency was the most successful and beneficial since that of Ronald Reagan. That’s what counts.

Trump’s preoccupation with a stolen election is perfectly legitimate. It is the greatest shame and disgrace in American political history and, after the Supreme Court’s pusillanimous bailout, absolutely needs to be addressed.

Trump is hale, healthy, smart, and vigorous. Witness the energy and stamina on display in his frequent and protracted rallies. There is no need to worry.

Trump is obviously controversial, but this aspect of his character and self-presentation does not detract from his potential candidacy. He is obviously the Democrats’ greatest peril, from their perspective one that must be neutralized in any presidential contest. The Russiagate scandal, the banning on Facebook and Twitter, two attempted impeachments, the J-6 katzenjammer, the relentless media attacks on his reputation, the illegal and unprovoked raid on his private residence, and a recent subpoena all point to the fact that the Democrats regard him as the greatest threat to their hopes and plans. An onslaught of this magnitude clearly indicates that the Democrats see him as a major impediment to retaining the White House. Trump is undoubtedly the man they fear most. This alone is sufficient evidence to justify his 2024 primary nomination.

 

[BugI02]

However, if McCarthy is sincere about the dangers to this country if Democrats win again, you’d think he’d vote for Trump and support him as the Republican candidate in 2024 if he wins the nomination.

Remember That After the Primary We Need to Work Together

townhall.com

This primary has already been mildly ugly and it will likely get uglier. That’s okay – the primary should be a crucible that tests and toughens the candidates. We need to nominate the best fighter for the general election, and right now the polls seem to indicate that Donald Trump is the guy most Republicans are supporting.

I will vote for the primary winner in the general. Period. If you play the game, you need to accept the outcome. I get frustrated with people who tell me they will never vote for Trump in the general. Not voting for Trump in the general is voting for Biden. I will work for and vote for Trump in the general. I also get frustrated with people who tell me they will only vote for Trump in the general. Not voting for a nominee who is not Trump in the general is also voting for Biden. It’s binary, Commie or Not Commie.

 

[BugI02]

I think the point that McCarthy and others are trying to make is that a number of people who once voted for Biden were simply doing so because they hated Trump and they would not necessarily turn out and vote for Biden in greater numbers again with as much enthusiasm like they did in 2020 if the nominee was someone other than Trump.

But are there more of them than the 30% of republicans who are enthusiastic to vote for Trump again? Does it make sense to give up 30% to gain a different 10% or 15%?
Are you taking Trump supporters for granted, feeling they HAVE to support your guy?

That may not be the best strategy. Nobody knows whether Trump can win, the map is not the territory

 

[BugI02]

'The independents will save us' is the 2024 version of 'the senate will save us'

 

[KG1]

But are there more of them than the 30% of republicans who are enthusiastic to vote for Trump again? Does it make sense to give up 30% to gain a different 10% or 15%?
Are you taking Trump supporters for granted, feeling they HAVE to support your guy?

That may not be the best strategy. Nobody knows whether Trump can win, the map is not the territory

See this in my proceeding post where I address that. I am not taking Trump supporters for granted but to the contrary. I anticipated that this would be coming that's why I jumped out front of you and addressed that as well.

I've never demanded that they HAVE to support "my guy" so you're a tad bit off base with that accusation. As a matter of fact I've said do what you want if Trump doesn't win the nomination.. That's your decision as for me I WILL vote for Trump if he does win the nomination.

Oh there is no doubt that it could possibly be a factor against any Republican nominee. I won't rule it out entirely. They just seemed to be extra motivated in 2020 when Trump was the nominee just like all Biden voters were against Trump. I believe it's not necessarily that they liked Biden in such great numbers it was more so because they hated Trump with a passion which is why i tend to agree that if Trump wasn't a candidate for 2024 they would not be as motivated for Biden like they were in 2020.

On the flip side though, the problem then becomes IMO is that if Trump were not a candidate many die hard Trump supporters might not be so enthusiastic about supporting another candidate. It's really a catch 22 in the numbers game here.

 

[jamil]

Remember That After the Primary We Need to Work Together

townhall.com

The part I disagree with is the idea that among candidates X, Y, Z, a vote for Y is a vote for Z. It’s not. It’s a vote for Y even if one knows that Y has no chance. Similar, not voting is not a vote for Z either. It’s opting out. I don’t advocate either one.

 

[jamil]

But are there more of them than the 30% of republicans who are enthusiastic to vote for Trump again? Does it make sense to give up 30% to gain a different 10% or 15%?
Are you taking Trump supporters for granted, feeling they HAVE to support your guy?

That may not be the best strategy. Nobody knows whether Trump can win, the map is not the territory

Are you saying that if we don’t fall in line and become compliant little Trumpers you’ll hold back your votes for the eventual winner if it’s not Trump? Because it sounds like that’s the sentiment behind this.

 

[jamil]

'The independents will save us' is the 2024 version of 'the senate will save us'

The independents are what they are. For the neverTrumper types, they might stay home. Or they might vote for Biden or whoever wins the D nomination. That’s an eventuality that threatening to take your football home wont resolve.

The primary is gonna produce whatever it produces. The key is to help make the case to support whoever is the primary winner. But that’s hard to do for side takers whose guy doesn’t win. I suspect the hardest sell would be to get people like SD4L to vote for Trump. Because hopefully, if Trump doesn’t win, there won’t be sourGrapers to convince. Right?

 

[jamil]

See this in my proceeding post where I address that. I am not taking Trump supporters for granted but to the contrary. I anticipated that this would be coming that's why I jumped out front of you and addressed that as well.

I've never demanded that they HAVE to support "my guy" so you're a tad bit off base with that accusation. As a matter of fact I've said do what you want if Trump doesn't win the nomination.. That's your decision as for me I WILL vote for Trump if he does win the nomination.

I really don’t have a feel for how Trumpers will react if Trump isn’t the nominee. But what I am pretty confident about, if the Republicans primary becomes a tribal war, all sides in that will come out damaged. A healthy competition is fine between candidates and by extension between the people that support them. But those things tend to get very personal. If the us vs them gets really heated people start holding grudges.

 

[KG1]

I really don’t have a feel for how Trumpers will react if Trump isn’t the nominee. But what I am pretty confident about, if the Republicans primary becomes a tribal war, all sides in that will come out damaged. A healthy competition is fine between candidates and by extension between the people that support them. But those things tend to get very personal. If the us vs them gets really heated people start holding grudges.

Well, I think the message now is that ultimately a united front of 'Us v Democrats" is not a given anymore due to tribal factions holding grudges like you said whereas the Democrats have set aside any differences they may have about Biden and in the end united in voting against Trump.

 

[Ingomike]

Well, I think the message now is that ultimately a united front of 'Us v Democrats" is not a given anymore due to tribal factions holding grudges like you said.

Yep, SDFL has already said that…

 

[Rick60]

Why?

When the chips were down and he could have done what was necessary, he tucked tail and ran saying he'll just run again.
Now we're left with a run-away federal government, emboldened by getting away with rigging elections, now mandating forcible medical procedures. Republicans helped push through a red-flag law that will eventually disarm us for questioning the federal government's actions.

2022 won't go the way anyone here wants, and neither will 2024. There is no reason for them to not rig those elections as well. There's no consequence, and nobody will do anything to stop it, much less even speak out against it. Even if you got someone in the white house who believed in liberty above all, it's still a sinking ship and the machinations of the federal state will continue to drag us down. Too much power has been in the hands of the unelected too long.

Our top military official is giving China classified intel on military actions, so the military isn't coming to save you any time soon either.

There's 3 choices left:
1.) Political action at a state level to leave the union
2.) Do nothing and enjoy your chains
3.) _____ ___

Putting Trump back in office is like putting a bandaid on someone with stage 4 cancer. Sure it might give you some psychological benefit, but the final result won't change.

Very well put!

 

[Ingomike]

I really don’t have a feel for how Trumpers will react if Trump isn’t the nominee. But what I am pretty confident about, if the Republicans primary becomes a tribal war, all sides in that will come out damaged. A healthy competition is fine between candidates and by extension between the people that support them. But those things tend to get very personal. If the us vs them gets really heated people start holding grudges.

I think it will come down to how the fight goes, not who wins. If the establishment repubs try to cheat Trump, there will be an issue.

 

[KG1]

Yep, SDFL has already said that…

There are tribal factions on both sides that contribute to a death nell for a united front against the Democrats now.

 

[KG1]

I think it will come down to how the fight goes, not who wins. If the establishment repubs try to cheat Trump, there will be an issue.

That would be like the Bernie Bro effect when Bernie was cheated by the DNC in favor of HRC. They vowed not to vote for HRC after that if Bernie didn't get the nomination. I can see that happening here as well. Personally, I wouldn't be cool with it either if they try to do it to Trump.

 

[jamil]

Well, I think the message now is that ultimately a united front of 'Us v Democrats" is not a given anymore due to tribal factions holding grudges like you said whereas the Democrats have set aside any differences they may have about Biden and in the end united in voting against Trump.

I don’t think they’ve set aside differences, per se. I think the moderates don’t believe their side is doing what they’re doing. Ask a moderate leftie if abortions right up to birth should be allowed? They deny anyone is saying that. Ask if it’s okay for teachers to tell their students to call pedos “minor-attrated persons”, because it’s not wrong that they’re attracted to 5 year old kids. They’ll deny it happens.

The left doesn’t push back against their own because the moderates think the left fringe is tiny and harmless. And the media helps with that. NPR doesn’t report how nutty the left has gotten. They sweep it under the rug, and blame everything on Republicans.

 

[oze]

As I was reading the op-ed, I found myself substituting "Young" for "Trump". But I don't think the goose/gander idiom WRT supporting the primary winner is going to carry water for some.

 

[Tombs]

I really don’t have a feel for how Trumpers will react if Trump isn’t the nominee. But what I am pretty confident about, if the Republicans primary becomes a tribal war, all sides in that will come out damaged. A healthy competition is fine between candidates and by extension between the people that support them. But those things tend to get very personal. If the us vs them gets really heated people start holding grudges.

The key thing to remember is, it won't matter.

We have a severe cultural problem in this country and a simple election isn't going to do jack **** to fix it. A neocon or an ideal candidate can't fix this.

The public needs to reflect on why they permit the things that are happening and look to mommy government for a solution to it. Until they understand mommy government isn't the solution, and that goes for both sides, this problem will persist and worsen.

 

[BugI02]

Are you saying that if we don’t fall in line and become compliant little Trumpers you’ll hold back your votes for the eventual winner if it’s not Trump? Because it sounds like that’s the sentiment behind this.

Are you saying that if Trumpers don't fall in line and become compliant little DeSandinistas you'll hold back your votes for the eventual winner (Trump)? Because it sounds like that's the sentiment behind this

No, I'm saying exactly what I said - it is likely foolish to give up the 30% of republicans enthusiastic to vote for Trump to try to suck up to the 10% or so (if that many) untrustworthy republicans who supposedly voted for Biden because;Trump. The only way that makes sense is if you are taking for granted that that 30% will vote for someone else. If you **** Trump and he goes third party you're toast, but it still seems like you think you can do whatever you want and those Trump voters will HAVE come around. I think you are choosing unwisely

And you heard it here first: beware an RFK jr/ Sanders ticket

 

[Tombs]

And you heard it here first: beware an RFK jr/ Sanders ticket

Democrats are too deep into a purity spiral for something like that.

No way in hell they'd put up someone that moderate as a front runner, much less allow sanders anywhere near the white house.