Thoughts on low capacity 9mm carry for self defense ?

[GunsCarsPlanes]

2 or 3 rounds is all you need, yeah there are the outlying situations but whatever. imo higher capacity is just a peace of mind thing.

 

[Goodcat]

Springfield Armory, S series.
Bianci Speed Draw or mod. 5S
OWB, 3:30 o:clock
Kore Essential Belt.

To me it’s a whole different world than my j-frames.
a full ~ 2 seconds in time, and a full1 inch in groups at 21 feet. Depending on range ammo

But I’ve shot and trained with them for ever. The J-Frame.

The whole thing seems to be different or ungainly. Mostly the draw. Different angle. I keep thinking I can train myself out of it but it’s still not comfortable.

I can wear my 1911 and feel perfectly comfortable, but that is the piece I’m most comfortable with In the city.

I only use Bianci or Galco leather, cause that’s the way that works for me. I’m thinking of ordering a Galco to see if the little differences in angle might help

Thanks for the reply.

Well, Springfield XD, and even X-S are some pretty not great handguns.

I’d always recommend a semi-auto for magazine use alone. BUT if you are one of those “beware the old man who carries a j-frame and no reloads” kind guys (been carrying it a longggg time) I would stick with what you love. If you are proficient with a j-frame, and less so with autos, I would absolutely keep carrying what you love. No one should talk you out of that. Confidence in your carry gun is half the battle.

In your situation, I am 100% with the mindset that you should not give up your j-frames.

 

[OurDee]

What if you are both?

View attachment 320161

My derringer is loaded with 10mm.

 

[Leadeye]

My derringer is loaded with 10mm.

The one in the picture shoots 41 rim fire short, so I suppose in a way it's 10mm.

 

[LtScott14]

It seems like you are comfortable with a J frame. Have you considered carrying a 2nd J frame instead of changing to a semi? It keeps you with a platform you're comfortable with and you have a "New York reload" if needed.

This is a sound idea! We all second guess our choices, but I like the NY Reload thoughts. Hell, carry your 9mm and a J frame! Sometimes My G45,9mm goes along with my S&W 442 just as a coat gun.(in a holster in a pocket). Winter means closed up coat, hard to draw from concealed underneath. Good luck. On an after thought, DeSantis makes some decent leather rigs. I own a few Tagua leather holsters too.

 

[gassprint1]

I also carry a walther pps m2 because its thin, 6 to 9 rounds. Not much capacity difference if i was to use the 6rd mag. I'm not joining that fearful group the bigger is better or highest capacity is better.

 

[snapping turtle]

I have always carried a smith 66 shorty. Extra shot, extra size (over the j frame) and not really any advantage over a small 9 mm which could afford me more shots at the same size. Just like carrying something I have carried a long time and gotten used to. Not a LEO just confidence in where I will hit if shooting. Outside waist band at 4 o’clock like always with flannel at this time of year. Used to carry 357 daylight and 38 at night but just carry 38’s in it now and 357’s in A speed loader. I think there are 3 speedloaders just know where two are now and I think the third is in the console of the car.

Fancy carry is the P229 in 40 s&w or 357 sig. if I knew there could be trouble that would go. OWB at 4 o’clock like always with flannel at this time of year. The DA/ SA is different than revolver but so close that it works the same between them.

Only real thing I have changed is where the wallet goes now front pocket offhand instead of rear pocket strong hand. Changed that about ten years ago when the fancy new wallets became common. Heck I think it is the same ridge wallet knock off for ten years.

i don’t think you would be under gunned J frame. I just don’t pocket carry.

 

[CB1911]

Forgive me if I didn't catch what barrel length your J frame is or which model you carry. Have you tried a 3" J frame? I find they carry like a J but shoot like a K. I'm comfortable carrying my 3" 60-4 full lug 38 special in the great outdoors. The 3" barrel also bumps the velocity up on those jhp loads.

 

[Mij]

Well, Springfield XD, and even X-S are some pretty not great handguns.

I’d always recommend a semi-auto for magazine use alone. BUT if you are one of those “beware the old man who carries a j-frame and no reloads” kind guys (been carrying it a longggg time) I would stick with what you love. If you are proficient with a j-frame, and less so with autos, I would absolutely keep carrying what you love. No one should talk you out of that. Confidence in your carry gun is half the battle.

In your situation, I am 100% with the mindset that you should not give up your j-frames.

Why do you state the Springfield is “some pretty not great handguns?” Should I only carry a Great side arm? How about just good? One I trust to go bang when needed.

These words may be of interest to others on this forum that carry them on a daily basis. I know they are to me.

And, as I said I don’t carry a five shot in a city….

The SA I’m carrying has never given me any, none at all problems, I’ve shot about a thousand rounds through it, I’ve cleaned it 3 maybe 4 times if my memory is correct.

Let me know what you consider a great gun, I’ll break one out of the hidey spot and try it out.

Thanks for your kind input.

 

[INP8riot]

Watch any police or self protection shooting videos. I would not be comfortable with only 5 or 6 rounds in any of those scenarios. 1 shot in a self defense situation? Someone has a gun pointed at you, you fire 1 shot and wait to see the outcome?! Then choose to shoot agin if necessary?

Check the police hit rate while under duress. Not a great % and those guys train! That's why they shoot a lot, sometimes mag dumping. Not every scenario gives a chance where a shot be lined up. Shots will miss. When you have a single digit round count...it starts to matter. You are also only taking one attacker onto consideration. Add another in the mix and they aren't standing near each other. Now are 5-6 rounds still looking good with misses in the mix?

Carrying an extra mag isn't about extra round count all the time. The #1 failure point of a semi auto is the mag and or feeding issue. Shoot 1-2 rounds and a failure occurs. Drop the mag, clear the gun and put the backup mag in.

Ofcourse this is war gaming, but these things do happen.

 

[Route 45]

I still don't know what kind of 9mm you carry. I know it's a Springfield. You say it's an "S"? You mean an XD-S?

The XD-S is not really a well-regarded pistol, but probably reliable nonetheless. There was a problem with them when they first came out with possible unintended discharges. There was a recall by Springfield on them. Doesn't apply to the Mod 2 model, if that's what you have. It's not that it's a particularly bad pistol, it's just that other offerings from other companies (including Springfield's own Hellcat series) are just so much better in size/weight/capacity. Lots of people don't care for the grip safety on the XD-S either.

Great guns in this size category are S&W Shield Plus, Springfield Hellcat, Sig P365. If you simply want lower capacity in the same size/weight platform (and I don't know why you would), Glock 43 and Walther PPS are great options.

 

[Mij]

1) I've yet to find someone dead with an empty handgun in their hand in a random violence situation. I've seen people dead with empty guns in their hand of multiple capacities in targeted violence situations. You know your threat level, which sounds on the 'nobody is targeting me' side of the scale. No criminal activity, no crazy ex- and her cousins, etc.

2) Alien gear is entry level. It's not Uncle Mike's cheap, but it's on the low end of things. That doesn't mean it won't work for you, but there are better options if you want to spend the money.

It's *possible* you'll get kilt in the gravel roadz because you had an encounter you couldn't solve in 5 but 9 did the trick in the same way it's *possible* for you to hit PowerBall twice in a row. I'm not sure which is more likely for you, but neither is something I'd spend much time worrying over.

Thanks for the heads up on Alien gear, somehow I got the impression it was great stuff. I do own an Uncle Mikes, it’s strapped around my trap bucket and holds my 22 lr Taurus trap line revolver.

Money, meh. I’m old can’t take it with me.

Thanks for the pro input….

 

[Mij]

Watch any police or self protection shooting videos. I would not be comfortable with only 5 or 6 rounds in any of those scenarios. 1 shot in a self defense situation? Someone has a gun pointed at you, you fire 1 shot and wait to see the outcome?! Then choose to shoot agin if necessary?

Check the police hit rate while under duress. Not a great % and those guys train! That's why they shoot a lot, sometimes mag dumping. Not every scenario gives a chance where a shot be lined up. Shots will miss. When you have a single digit round count...it starts to matter. You are also only taking one attacker onto consideration. Add another in the mix and they aren't standing near each other. Now are 5-6 rounds still looking good with misses in the mix?

Carrying an extra mag isn't about extra round count all the time. The #1 failure point of a semi auto is the mag and or feeding issue. Shoot 1-2 rounds and a failure occurs. Drop the mag, clear the gun and put the backup mag in.

Ofcourse this is war gaming, but these things do happen.

Thank you.

 

[ECS686]

Watch any police or self protection shooting videos. I would not be comfortable with only 5 or 6 rounds in any of those scenarios. 1 shot in a self defense situation? Someone has a gun pointed at you, you fire 1 shot and wait to see the outcome?! Then choose to shoot agin if necessary?

Check the police hit rate while under duress. Not a great % and those guys train! That's why they shoot a lot, sometimes mag dumping. Not every scenario gives a chance where a shot be lined up. Shots will miss. When you have a single digit round count...it starts to matter. You are also only taking one attacker onto consideration. Add another in the mix and they aren't standing near each other. Now are 5-6 rounds still looking good with misses in the mix?

Carrying an extra mag isn't about extra round count all the time. The #1 failure point of a semi auto is the mag and or feeding issue. Shoot 1-2 rounds and a failure occurs. Drop the mag, clear the gun and put the backup mag in.

Ofcourse this is war gaming, but these things do happen.

Police do not train. Unless they are in a special team line officers are well pressed to shoot more than once a year. That along with the use of huge targets with unrealistic large scoring rings as well as easing standards gives Officers a false sense of proficiency

 

[ECS686]

Why do you state the Springfield is “some pretty not great handguns?” Should I only carry a Great side arm? How about just good? One I trust to go bang when needed.

These words may be of interest to others on this forum that carry them on a daily basis. I know they are to me.

And, as I said I don’t carry a five shot in a city….

The SA I’m carrying has never given me any, none at all problems, I’ve shot about a thousand rounds through it, I’ve cleaned it 3 maybe 4 times if my memory is correct.

Let me know what you consider a great gun, I’ll break one out of the hidey spot and try it out.

Thanks for your kind input.

I’m not anyones mouthpiece however issues with XD’s are well known. Run it through a 400 round a day class and there’s a high chance you will have an issue. I have seen countless XDs go down in classes and qualification shoots where Officers but their own guns.

I also know if an Illinois academy instructor that has nothing but disdain for XDs from his experience with recruits coming through with them. And I also have seen my Son I. law have issues with his XD with few rounds he has sense went to M&Ps without a hiccup!

 

[Tactically Fat]

3x3x3...

That's an AVERAGE.

Your gunfight will NOT be average. Do not bet on averages. Do not count on averages. Averages are not the real world.

That said - plenty of people - plenty of *very good with handguns* type people, carry a 5-shot Jframe every single day. Small part convenience, larger part concealability.

Can you draw and hit what you need when it matters?

The #1 self-defensive tool that we have at our disposal is avoidance.

 

[xwing]

1) I've yet to find someone dead with an empty handgun in their hand in a random violence situation. I've seen people dead with empty guns in their hand of multiple capacities in targeted violence situations. You know your threat level, which sounds on the 'nobody is targeting me' side of the scale. No criminal activity, no crazy ex- and her cousins, etc.

2) Alien gear is entry level. It's not Uncle Mike's cheap, but it's on the low end of things. That doesn't mean it won't work for you, but there are better options if you want to spend the money.

It's *possible* you'll get kilt in the gravel roadz because you had an encounter you couldn't solve in 5 but 9 did the trick in the same way it's *possible* for you to hit PowerBall twice in a row. I'm not sure which is more likely for you, but neither is something I'd spend much time worrying over.

+1. Carrying what is comfortable for you far outweighs something with slightly better capacity or performance. It is extremely likely that you will never need to use your firearm for self defense in your entire life. In that sliver of a chance where you need it, it is almost certain that 5 rounds would be sufficient.

9 is better than 5, just like .45 is better than 9mm. But it would matter only in very limited and extremely unlikely circumstances. I would recommend carrying what you are comfortable with and what you prefer. Just one time of "it's a hassle, so I'm not going to carry this larger / less comfortable firearm today." negates everything. A .22 in your holster is infinitely more valuable in a crisis than a .45 sitting in your gun safe.

 

[Denny347]

Police do not train. Unless they are in a special team line officers are well pressed to shoot more than once a year. That along with the use of huge targets with unrealistic large scoring rings as well as easing standards gives Officers a false sense of proficiency

"Police" does not mean ALL departments are the same Some departments put 30 rounds downrange once a year to qualify. I will say that IMPD may have its issues, the range isn't one of them. 2-full days of handgun and 1-day of rifle a year. Draw and firing from inside a vehicle. Shooting while moving. Shooting from concealed carry. All great stuff. Not all "police" are the same.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Comparing police shootings to the broad concept of general carry is nearly meaningless. The distances, the motivation of the attacker, the reactive nature of the encounter, etc. are all different.

Citizens vs random violence win or lose by surprise, speed, and violence of attack.

Surprise: Firing from ambush (home invasion or 3rd party defense while the bad guy is focused on someone else or feigning compliance until bad guy is distracted, etc)

Speed: Some take speed to mean a hell for leather draw, which is typically not the case. Speed is once you start any action that signals you're starting to fight you start the timer for them to notice and react, so some speed is required, but no false starts, no presenting a non-functioning weapon, etc.

Violence of attack: No hesitation, no standing there waiting for them to grapple the gun, but a committed attack until the threat is out of the fight, either down or disabled or fleeing.

Police, and targeted attacks in general, always look different. Higher round counts, greater distances, less chance for surprise on the defenders' side, and a much more highly motivated to stay in the fight adversary. The bad guy who's mugging you wants to live to mug another day and fleeing in the face of resistance is a great way to do that. The bad guy shooting it out with the police knows he can't just run away without being chased. Or he's already decided he's willing to die. Same with the jilted ex- who doesn't carry if he dies as long as he gets you, too. Much much different scenario and combining all these types into one bundle labeled 'average shooting' creates data that's meaningless to any of them.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Thank you for your post.

Your question is valid especially when one is bombarded with merchants that are happy to sell the idea that if and when you have a civil fight, it is going to be 25 perps that all stand in the same place and let you shoot at em.

Perception and choices are mental and consequential. The real data shows that you will die with disease, accidents or old age before you will have to scare your enemy with 150 rounds of gun fire.

Professional Applications Aside.


I like the J Frame for its size, dependability, power, Steel and the fact I don’t leave cases at the scene if I can help it.

But, paranoia is individually subjective to all of us, so warm your thoughts with what does it for you.

However in any case, get out and test and keep improving your skill set in the actual act of shootability with whatever you decide.

It has always been the Carpenter and not the Hammer.

See you on the range

Trapper