Thoughts on low capacity 9mm carry for self defense ?

[Mij]

Probably due to a perceived recent increase in handgun shootings I’ve traded out my EDC off farm from a J- frame to a 9 round 9mm . In my mind I’ve gained 4 rounds, but is it worth the hassle?

Off farm my chances of some kind of encounter are almost nil. But it still exists. My experience with the sidearm and caliber are extremely limited. Maybe a total of < 1000 rounds and maybe < 20 range sessions.

Iv’e carried a j-frame for ….well a long time. I’m quite proficient with one.

Iv’e been carrying this auto for the whole summer and I’m beginning to have doubts about the decision. Weight, size, big * holster catching on everything. Just looking for a group input, (this group). Keeping in mind I am fairly isolated and don’t interact with large groups much. Coffee with farmers at the small town cafe in the mourning is the most interactive I get. Of course going to a city is not part of my question?

Thanks.

 

[Route 45]

What 9mm are you carrying? Are you carrying it in the same manner, that you were carrying your J frame? A big lower capacity 9mm might not be as good as one of the new slim subcompact 9mm options that are about the same size as a J frame.

 

[DadSmith]

Probably due to a perceived recent increase in handgun shootings I’ve traded out my EDC off farm from a J- frame to a 9 round 9mm . In my mind I’ve gained 4 rounds, but is it worth the hassle?

Off farm my chances of some kind of encounter are almost nil. But it still exists. My experience with the sidearm and caliber are extremely limited. Maybe a total of < 1000 rounds and maybe < 20 range sessions.

Iv’e carried a j-frame for ….well a long time. I’m quite proficient with one.

Iv’e been carrying this auto for the whole summer and I’m beginning to have doubts about the decision. Weight, size, big * holster catching on everything. Just looking for a group input, (this group). Keeping in mind I am fairly isolated and don’t interact with large groups much. Coffee with farmers at the small town cafe in the mourning is the most interactive I get. Of course going to a city is not part of my question?

Thanks.

What firearm?
What holster are you using?
Where do you carry it? IWB, OWB, AIWB, ANKLE, SHOULDER, CHEST?

 

[Mij]

What firearm?
What holster are you using?
Where do you carry it? IWB, OWB, AIWB, ANKLE, SHOULDER, CHEST?

Springfield Armory, S series.
Bianci Speed Draw or mod. 5S
OWB, 3:30 o:clock
Kore Essential Belt.

To me it’s a whole different world than my j-frames.
a full ~ 2 seconds in time, and a full1 inch in groups at 21 feet. Depending on range ammo

But I’ve shot and trained with them for ever. The J-Frame.

The whole thing seems to be different or ungainly. Mostly the draw. Different angle. I keep thinking I can train myself out of it but it’s still not comfortable.

I can wear my 1911 and feel perfectly comfortable, but that is the piece I’m most comfortable with In the city.

I only use Bianci or Galco leather, cause that’s the way that works for me. I’m thinking of ordering a Galco to see if the little differences in angle might help

Thanks for the reply.

 

[DadSmith]

Springfield Armory, S series.
Bianci Speed Draw or mod. 5S
OWB, 3:30 o:clock
Kore Essential Belt.

To me it’s a whole different world than my j-frames.
a full ~ 2 seconds in time, and a full1 inch in groups at 21 feet. Depending on range ammo

But I’ve shot and trained with them for ever. The J-Frame.

The whole thing seems to be different or ungainly. Mostly the draw. Different angle. I keep thinking I can train myself out of it but it’s still not comfortable.

I can wear my 1911 and feel perfectly comfortable, but that is the piece I’m most comfortable with In the city.

I only use Bianci or Galco leather, cause that’s the way that works for me. I’m thinking of ordering a Galco to see if the little differences in angle might help

Thanks for the reply.

I carry full size pistols IWB at 4 o'clock. CZ P10F, Dagger FS, 1911, etc.
I also have a Kore belt.
I use and love Alien Gear IWB holsters 3.5
Most comfortable I've found, heat or cold. I work outside like you and even with the FS firearms it is out of the way and covered with a shirt, or jacket.
You might want to try one out, or another brand with similar design.

Cloak Tuck 3.5 IWB Holster

The Most Comfortable IWB Holster | Available for over 500 gun options | Toolless holster clips | Adjustable retention | Made in the USA

aliengearholsters.com

 

[Mij]

Gotta say the out of the way is the best selling point I’ve heard. Every time I jump on any tractor or truck or feed cart the thing gets caught up.

My biggest concern is the draw to use. I’ve read on here the accolades of the Alien Gear, I’m thinking that may be worth a look. But the above all is the “get it into action “ factor that is my priority. Given my ability with my 38 vs the new to me 9mm. It dont work unless it works. And as always thanks again.

 

[Slow Hand]

My most often carried handgun is a Smith 442. I pocket carry it because it bas disappears and doesnt really require a cover garment. In the summer with cargo shorts, I’ll sometimes swap it out for a Smith Shield, also in pocket carry. You didn’t mention how you carry your J frame, but in my opinion, if you’re going to OWB, or even IWB, you might as well go with a bigger gun. i tried to search up the holster you are carrying your Springfield in but didn’t have any luck. I’d suggest a pancake style like your avatar shows. With the belt loop spread out front and rear, it helps tuck the gun in tighter and isn’t as ‘grabby’ on things you move past like a holster with the belt loop on the rear. Or, if you find it comfortable enough, go to IWB carry. The. You basically have nothing but the grip outside of your pants and it should still be tucked in fairly tight with a good quality holster, which it sounds like you prefer.

I moved to the shield several yeas back because like you said, you’re almost doubling your ammo capacity of a similar powered round. Reloads faster too. My shield shoots very well for me, nearly as good as a mid or full sized handgun. The biggest downfall to me, is with the design of the slide, the part that comes back over the web of your hand prints too bad in pocket carry. MYbe I’m still paranoid after over two decades of CC, but to me, that outline just screams ‘gun’! A ja frame in my pocket holster mostly looks like I’ve got a bunch of crap in my pocket!

It sounds like you’ve don’t your due diligence with the new auto loader and still feel more comfortable with the revolver. I’d say if you ever have to use it, confidence in your chosen firearm will play a very large part in your success. Maybe more so than extra capacity. But, that s a decision only you can make.

 

[Mij]

My most often carried handgun is a Smith 442. I pocket carry it because it bas disappears and doesnt really require a cover garment. In the summer with cargo shorts, I’ll sometimes swap it out for a Smith Shield, also in pocket carry. You didn’t mention how you carry your J frame, but in my opinion, if you’re going to OWB, or even IWB, you might as well go with a bigger gun. i tried to search up the holster you are carrying your Springfield in but didn’t have any luck. I’d suggest a pancake style like your avatar shows. With the belt loop spread out front and rear, it helps tuck the gun in tighter and isn’t as ‘grabby’ on things you move past like a holster with the belt loop on the rear. Or, if you find it comfortable enough, go to IWB carry. The. You basically have nothing but the grip outside of your pants and it should still be tucked in fairly tight with a good quality holster, which it sounds like you prefer.

I moved to the shield several yeas back because like you said, you’re almost doubling your ammo capacity of a similar powered round. Reloads faster too. My shield shoots very well for me, nearly as good as a mid or full sized handgun. The biggest downfall to me, is with the design of the slide, the part that comes back over the web of your hand prints too bad in pocket carry. MYbe I’m still paranoid after over two decades of CC, but to me, that outline just screams ‘gun’! A ja frame in my pocket holster mostly looks like I’ve got a bunch of crap in my pocket!

It sounds like you’ve don’t your due diligence with the new auto loader and still feel more comfortable with the revolver. I’d say if you ever have to use it, confidence in your chosen firearm will play a very large part in your success. Maybe more so than extra capacity. But, that s a secondly you can make.

Ya, all of my holsters are a pancake style, the difference is angle of grasp.

I fully agree on the confidence issue, that’s my quandary?

It seems the grip of the grip safety may be the issue. I’m worried (to much) about the grip safety. ( I always hesitate) Same as the 1911. But with the 1911 you can’t miss it. The smaller autos are ….well different to me. Gotta be sure of your grasp. That causes me to hesitate on the draw, it’s not instinct. I keep thinking I can train over it but my draw times aren’t what I want them to be. I’m not so much worried about hitting the target as I am hitting my target first with a proper bullet. 1 or worse 2 seconds is a life time. Great answer, thanks,

 

[VERT]

I have been carrying around a Walther PPS for several years. No problem. But since getting fat after covid and with the new job I have been thinking about going back to the J frame. The rounded shape of the little revolver hides super easily.

 

[ECS686]

To me most folks should worry more about adding an OC/Pepper spray option over how many rounds is enough!

That said if you feel better with a 7-9 shot 9mm over a snub that’s a personal choice. I know there is a move back to old school loads for snub’s lately of 148 Wadcutters since 38 special JHP or LSWCHP need 4” to get the speed there are better east to get 9mm choices (I mean when’s the last time you saw full wadcutter 38 on a shelf?)

So short of a John Wick or cartel contract hit a 8 or so shot 9mm will be just fine!

And to me the Sig 225 or 225A1 is the perfect single stack low capacity 9mm

 

[Route 45]

I moved to the shield several yeas back because like you said, you’re almost doubling your ammo capacity of a similar powered round. Reloads faster too. My shield shoots very well for me, nearly as good as a mid or full sized handgun. The biggest downfall to me, is with the design of the slide, the part that comes back over the web of your hand prints too bad in pocket carry. MYbe I’m still paranoid after over two decades of CC, but to me, that outline just screams ‘gun’! A ja frame in my pocket holster mostly looks like I’ve got a bunch of crap in my pocket!

Nobody notices what you have in your pocket. People these days have their noses in their phone or their heads so far up their asses to the point that most don’t even notice open carry.

My edc is either a Shield Plus or Hellcat in a kydex pocket holster. Nobody has ever asked me what’s in my pocket. And I’ll choose my sensibilities in carrying a capable defensive tool over anyone else’s concerns over what’s in my pocket.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

1) I've yet to find someone dead with an empty handgun in their hand in a random violence situation. I've seen people dead with empty guns in their hand of multiple capacities in targeted violence situations. You know your threat level, which sounds on the 'nobody is targeting me' side of the scale. No criminal activity, no crazy ex- and her cousins, etc.

2) Alien gear is entry level. It's not Uncle Mike's cheap, but it's on the low end of things. That doesn't mean it won't work for you, but there are better options if you want to spend the money.

It's *possible* you'll get kilt in the gravel roadz because you had an encounter you couldn't solve in 5 but 9 did the trick in the same way it's *possible* for you to hit PowerBall twice in a row. I'm not sure which is more likely for you, but neither is something I'd spend much time worrying over.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I believe our illustrious squirrel above once said that the average defensive handgun encounter is 3x3x3:

3 rounds fired
within 3 yards
done in under 3 seconds.

 

[J Galt]

Probably due to a perceived recent increase in handgun shootings I’ve traded out my EDC off farm from a J- frame to a 9 round 9mm . In my mind I’ve gained 4 rounds, but is it worth the hassle?

Off farm my chances of some kind of encounter are almost nil. But it still exists. My experience with the sidearm and caliber are extremely limited. Maybe a total of < 1000 rounds and maybe < 20 range sessions.

Iv’e carried a j-frame for ….well a long time. I’m quite proficient with one.

Iv’e been carrying this auto for the whole summer and I’m beginning to have doubts about the decision. Weight, size, big * holster catching on everything. Just looking for a group input, (this group). Keeping in mind I am fairly isolated and don’t interact with large groups much. Coffee with farmers at the small town cafe in the mourning is the most interactive I get. Of course going to a city is not part of my question?

Thanks.

It seems like you are comfortable with a J frame. Have you considered carrying a 2nd J frame instead of changing to a semi? It keeps you with a platform you're comfortable with and you have a "New York reload" if needed.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Some out there will say you are undergunned with the 7-9 rounds of 9mm. Some say you need 15 in the gun with at least 2 spare magazines.
I've never felt undergunned with either an 8round 1911 or a 5 shot J Frame.
Carry what you have trained with and comfortable with.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I believe our illustrious squirrel above once said that the average defensive handgun encounter is 3x3x3:

3 rounds fired
within 3 yards
done in under 3 seconds.

That's long been a truism, but I don't think it's literally true. Certainly not for random violence only concerns. It's likely be closer to 1 round, 1.5 yards, 3 seconds as a very common set of numbers for that subset.

Random violence stats I've compiled

How do the incidents with no shots fired overlap with the contact distance encounters? Can you tell us anything about what those looked like and where to focus contact distance work based on what you're seeing? General H2H, Weapon Access, retention, attempting to disarm the attacker, something...

www.indianagunowners.com

I've got well over double the number of incidents now and nothing has radically changed. Zero or one shot solve the vast majority. Sometimes people shoot more than was needed (which is ok, it takes the brain awhile to catch up to the fact it's over and/or people panic) but video plainly shows the person is out of the fight earlier on. Fleeing ass over teakettle or down and the autopsy shows their spine was disrupted or whatever. Also the hit percentage goes way way down as more shots are fired. The first few rounds, the ones at close range before everyone is moving and cover is gained, etc. have a much higher hit rate.

Now, there's nothing wrong with having more capacity if all else is equal. More capacity may mean more options and it's often more psychologically satisfying post-shooting to feel like you could deal with another issue if it arose. It just doesn't sound like all else is equal for the OP. Just be honest, with a target and timer, on which you actually shoot better and more reliably on demand.

 

[Cameramonkey]

OK, so to keep it clever less than 3 shots, less than 3 yards, less than 3 seconds.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

OK, so to keep it clever less than 3 shots, less than 3 yards, less than 3 seconds.

Sure. Like most truisms, I think it's in the realm of good enough to make the point it's relevant to either way. Unless you're a derringer advocate debating a pepperbox advocate. Then it may start mattering more.

 

[Leadeye]

Sure. Like most truisms, I think it's in the realm of good enough to make the point it's relevant to either way. Unless you're a derringer advocate debating a pepperbox advocate. Then it may start mattering more.

What if you are both?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What if you are both?

View attachment 320161

Talk amongst yourselves?