The Sub-Caliber Thread (anything below .22 welcomed)!!!

[BigMoose]

Somebody on RimfireCentral had a little 4mm Schutzen rifle for sale (might still be there). If I’d had the $1800 he was asking for it, I’d have bought it! Such neat little rifles!

Edit: Still there!

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/hermann-zimmer-schuetzen-4mm-parlor-gun.1270527/#post-12967430

there is a PPK conversion on Simpson Limited's webpage that fires this stuff now, its not terribly expensive.

I am not sure what you would call these as far as ignition, its not a rimfire, centerfire, or pinfire... since its just a primer cap with a bullet.

 

[Tom Threetoes]

I have a CZ 527 in .204 and a CZ 452 Varmint in 17 Mach II.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Looks like a fair number of INGO like to shoot the tiny projectiles. This thread has piqued my interest, but so far it seems to be just a lot of chest thumping and drooling over the firearms listed.

Help somebody who doesn't shoot anything smaller than .22 LR understand what you're using them for.

All I've read so far is punching paper. Is there hunting value? Personal defense? Other?

Why would anyone want to move into this apparently high-cost arena?

 

[BigMoose]

Looks like a fair number of INGO like to shoot the tiny projectiles. This thread has piqued my interest, but so far it seems to be just a lot of chest thumping and drooling over the firearms listed.

Help somebody who doesn't shoot anything smaller than .22 LR understand what you're using them for.

All I've read so far is punching paper. Is there hunting value? Personal defense? Other?

Why would anyone want to move into this apparently high-cost arena?

Multiple answers to this, and it depends on the cartridge.

4.6 is the H&K PDW defeat body Armour round.

4mm M20 isn't classified as a firearm in many places.

204 ruger is an ultra high speed varmint round in a big rifle centerfire cartridge. Nothing really little about it, except the bullet.

The rest, (the 17s) high speed versions of 22

 

[Basher]

Why would anyone want to move into this apparently high-cost arena?

Well if nothing else, shooting these little guys is evidence that we’re not compensating for anything, if you catch my drift…

On a serious note, I’m sure reasons vary for everybody, but most notable (in no particular order) are:

A) minimal to no recoil. This is useful for new shooters, the recoil adverse, and for spotting hits when varmint hunting.

2) very minimal powder usage. You can shoot a lot for your dollar and/or powder goes farther so you can still shoot when it’s harder to find. Most of these calibers are burning 25gr or less, often much less.

d) they’re very flat shooting, meaning it’s easy to peg a varmint out to several hundred yards without having to dial or hold over for elevation.

IV) they’re easy on pelts if that matters to you.

Most people are using them for plinking or varmints, but some people just like the novelty of them. I belong firmly in the second camp, and plan to join the first camp this year.

 

[mmpsteve]

...

All I've read so far is punching paper. Is there hunting value? Personal defense? Other?

I use my 17 HM2 for longer range squirrel, specifically around the pecan orchard. Either they're going to get the pecan, or I am, and I like pecan.

By shooting behind a camo net at 100+ yards, they don't spook, and will jump right over a fallen comrade to get at the pecan. We've taken as many as 14 on one fine morning.

17 HMR and 17 Hornet are used for longer range varmint over the pond. They're both a little light for heavier varmint, but are very accurate for good shot placement.

Here's my squirrel sniper set-up. The pecan trees start about where that utility pole is in 3rd pic, so a pretty good poke. If you try to get closer, the squirrel hole up until you leave.







.

 

[jamesb]

17HM2 is my go to squirrel round, sometimes I use 17 Aguila. When I was in virginia 17HMR made a great turkey round. All my others are mainly just to play around with. Punching paper, making brass, seeing how fast I can go. I like to toss a few clay pigeons on the berm at 100 yards and turn them into dust.

 

[Creedmoor]

Looks like a fair number of INGO like to shoot the tiny projectiles. This thread has piqued my interest, but so far it seems to be just a lot of chest thumping and drooling over the firearms listed.

Help somebody who doesn't shoot anything smaller than .22 LR understand what you're using them for.

All I've read so far is punching paper. Is there hunting value? Personal defense? Other?

Why would anyone want to move into this apparently high-cost arena?

Some buy 75,000 dollar cars or trucks or RV's, boats that are some of the worst investments one can do. Nobody knocking anyone that does that.
Some buy tangible items that historically are good investments over the years, some buy tangible items and blow them up.


To answer your question.
Because they shoot very flat, get there very fast, are very cost effective to shoot, are very accurate, they buck the wind because they get there so fast, they don't have the huge report that larger cases rounds have.
I've harvested coyotes with a 17 HeeBee out to easily 300 yds with a 20 grain 17cal bullet. That's a 218 Bee case necked down and blown out.

Did I mention they are loads of fun?

Chest Thumping you say.

It was a gift for one of my son's,
for Standing On That Wall, Thank you.
Neither one of my son's went to college on dad's dime. So a nice firearm now and then, is a walk in the park Kanzanshy.

 

[Mgderf]

I do enjoy my little .204 Ruger in a Howa 1500 Sporter.
It is everything that has been claimed upthread, with one or two exceptions, in my humble opinion.
It is indeed fast.
Some of my 34gr stuff leaves the barrel at better than 4000fps.
It is incredibly flat shooting.
Moving at those speeds it doesn't have much time to drop.
I have to defer to others on damage to game. I've only shot a squirrel with it. The squirrel didn't fare well.
Here is where I need to part ways with the general consensus.
I have not been able to find much of anything ammo wise locally, and interwebz prices for .204 Ruger are not kind to the shooter.
I need to start loading this round.

My biggest beef with the .204 is the noise.
My Howa 1500 shoots very comfortably, but it is by far, the loudest firearm I own, and I have a Raging Bull in .454 Casull!

 

[FN USA]

Glad I stumbled across this old thread. I've recently been looking to build a new gun for punching holes in paper and racoons/squirrels. I've got a great .22 LR and have been looking hard at building at .17 HMR for the price and speed of the round. Looking at semi-auto and bolt guns for a lefty. Can anyone recommend a nice gun to start my project from?

 

[patience0830]

Glad I stumbled across this old thread. I've recently been looking to build a new gun for punching holes in paper and racoons/squirrels. I've got a great .22 LR and have been looking hard at building at .17 HMR for the price and speed of the round. Looking at semi-auto and bolt guns for a lefty. Can anyone recommend a nice gun to start my project from?

Man. . . Southpaws suffer when it comes to actions. Does the Ruger American come left handed? Tikka T1? Savage maybe?
Biting the bullet and going with a custom might be worth it in the long run. My next HMR is gonna be an Anschutz 1727f . The .22lr I have, I really l like. After the house is paid off this year, that's my celebration. They aren't cheap.

The fellow who asked about my. 20 VarTarg; I like the little round. In a 15" Contender, I think it will be minute of whistle pig out to 200 yds. .221 Fireball has always been underrated, especially in a rifle platform.

 

[mmpsteve]

Glad I stumbled across this old thread. I've recently been looking to build a new gun for punching holes in paper and racoons/squirrels. I've got a great .22 LR and have been looking hard at building at .17 HMR for the price and speed of the round. Looking at semi-auto and bolt guns for a lefty. Can anyone recommend a nice gun to start my project from?

CZ makes the 457 in left hand. I didn't see a 17 HMR lefty on GunBroker, but aftermarket barrels are common for the CZ rifles.

.

 

[Creedmoor]

Man. . . Southpaws suffer when it comes to actions. Does the Ruger American come left handed? Tikka T1? Savage maybe?
Biting the bullet and going with a custom might be worth it in the long run. My next HMR is gonna be an Anschutz 1727f . The .22lr I have, I really l like. After the house is paid off this year, that's my celebration. They aren't cheap.

The fellow who asked about my. 20 VarTarg; I like the little round. In a 15" Contender, I think it will be minute of whistle pig out to 200 yds. .221 Fireball has always been underrated, especially in a rifle platform.

I have a Cooper Mod 38 Montana Varminter in 221, its a great little cartridge, it loves the little Blitzkings.

 

[Mgderf]

I have a Cooper Mod 38 Montana Varminter in 221, its a great little cartridge, it loves the little Blitzkings.

Are the .221's ( like the fireball) as loud as the .204's?

 

[Creedmoor]

Are the .221's ( like the fireball) as loud as the .204's?

I've never shot a 204, so... I'm not sure.
Its a bit quieter than 223 with 35-45 grainers.
The noise and blast, is why long ago I went to the little center fire 17 and 19 caliber rifles for vermin control up to coyotes. With small cases like Hornet, Bee and 30 Carbine, there is no loud "rump" rolling down through the valley of over to the next farm.

Next time I go to the range I will shoot a 221 and a 223 and post the video???

 

[Mgderf]

I've never shot a 204, so... I'm not sure.
Its a bit quieter than 223 with 35-45 grainers.
The noise and blast, is why long ago I went to the little center fire 17 and 19 caliber rifles for vermin control up to coyotes. With small cases like Hornet, Bee and 30 Carbine, there is no loud "rump" rolling down through the valley of over to the next farm.

Next time I go to the range I will shoot a 221 and a 223 and post the video???

At 4000fps, that little .204 is by far, the loudest caliber I have, and almost the smallest.
I do have a .17hmr, but it's no where near the ear-piercing crack of the .204.

 

[FN USA]

Man. . . Southpaws suffer when it comes to actions. Does the Ruger American come left handed? Tikka T1? Savage maybe?
Biting the bullet and going with a custom might be worth it in the long run. My next HMR is gonna be an Anschutz 1727f . The .22lr I have, I really l like. After the house is paid off this year, that's my celebration. They aren't cheap.

The fellow who asked about my. 20 VarTarg; I like the little round. In a 15" Contender, I think it will be minute of whistle pig out to 200 yds. .221 Fireball has always been underrated, especially in a rifle platform.

I've been looking all day and haven't found a quality maker that makes a lefty gun. Looks like I'll be getting a right handed rifle afterall. Any opinions on the Bergara BMR in 17 HMR?

 

[Mgderf]

I've been looking all day and haven't found a quality maker that makes a lefty gun. Looks like I'll be getting a right handed rifle afterall. Any opinions on the Bergara BMR in 17 HMR?

Bergara barrels are top shelf.

 

[two70]

I've been looking all day and haven't found a quality maker that makes a lefty gun. Looks like I'll be getting a right handed rifle afterall. Any opinions on the Bergara BMR in 17 HMR?

The Tikka website lists a left handed T1x but I'm not sure how hard they are to find in the wild.

The BMR is a nice rifle, at least on par with the CZ and Tikka rimfires and a step ahead of the Ruger American and Savage rimfires. Well worth the money in my opinion.

 

[FN USA]

The Tikka website lists a left handed T1x but I'm not sure how hard they are to find in the wild.

The BMR is a nice rifle, at least on par with the CZ and Tikka rimfires and a step ahead of the Ruger American and Savage rimfires. Well worth the money in my opinion.

Thanks for the feedback! I've looking primarily at CZ and Bergara. I've never shot a Tikka but YouTube seems to agree that the magazine is the greatest downfall for this rifle... thoughts?