The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[MCgrease08]

In

Consumer Reports which is a pretty woke org says this is one of the least reliable cars. The Model 3, their most popular car is only slightly below average in reliability.

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In what way is Consumer Reports woke? I haven't heard that before.

 

[Born2vette]

While I feel over the years their testing has provided some useful insight and they have identified some bad products overall they are pro green, pro regulation, pro trans, support liberal politicians, universal health care, and lean towards socialism in general to name a few.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Hybrids (non-plug in) would have gained more market share than pure EV's.

Mild hybrids seem like extra complexity and cost for little gain in most offerings. Other than recapturing some small amount of energy during braking and deceleration, what's the gain? Having driven various Japanese offerings, I don't get the appeal at all of a non-plug in hybrid. Like even less than the appeal of an EV. I think they primarily exist as a way to shenanigan a passing score on emissions test loops, just like stop/start.

*If* I were interested in a hybrid, it'd be a plug-in and a performance model.

 

[KLB]

I'm just quoting the article.

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Hertz says it's selling 20,000 EVs, in part because they're too expensive to repair

The car-rental giant said higher repair costs contributed to its decision to cut the fleet by a third.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[manifest destiny]

I think they primarily exist as a way to shenanigan a passing score on emissions test loops, just like stop/start.

Fully agree with the thought of manufacturers playing the game designed by the feds. I hate the stop/start feature. I'm not even sure how much it save in fuel. At least I can turn it off.

Other than recapturing some small amount of energy during braking and deceleration, what's the gain?

About 20mpg on top of the 27mpg base. Oh, no expansive chargerging system for the home. Being able to travel without fear of being stranded due to lack of coal power, heat in the cold or tires in the heat. EV's aren't green, aren't less expensive, aren't what the feds claim they are. Hybrids are overpriced for what they are, but they're less investment than full EV. YMMV.

 

[indyblue]

The main downside to hybrids as I see it is the high complexity of their systems. My GF has a '16 Prius that gets from 45-62mpg depending on driving conditions. It's great when it works, but even minor problems can be a real pain to diagnose and repair and usually require a trip to the dealer as 3rd party shops don't often have the equipment nor mechanics experienced with hybrid tech.

i.e. Her Prius recently started strange behavior - coming to a stop the engine would sometimes not shut down and the idle RPMs would begin going wild. Dealer had no idea and charged her a $180 just to say they couldn't find a problem. It turned out to be the evap purge valve was stuck open. It had been replaced once before (by me) with a non-oem NAPA part that turned out to have a very short life. Replaced with a genuine Toyota part and it's fixed.

And $80 for nothing more than a plastic encased solenoid valve?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

About 20mpg on top of the 27mpg base.

I haven't looked in to it in a while, but what I recall was city numbers were a pretty dramatic difference but highway was much closer. If I'm going to deal with the added complexity, I'd rather just have the full plug in. I was sort of interested in the alleged Ranger high performance PHEV, but it apparently got canned before it was a thing.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Huh. I’d never considered parking garage design and accommodating significant EV parking.

”"A lot of these parking structures were built to hold vehicles that weighed 2,000 to 4,000 pounds — not 10,000 pounds," Michael Brooks, executive director of the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety, told The Associated Press. “

US guardrail system can’t handle heavy EVs, preliminary test crashes indicate

A new study has raised concerns about the ability of the nation’s guardrails to handle electric vehicles, which weigh thousands of pounds more than the average gas-powered sedan.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[jamil]

I did say "... then hammering the car." so I didn't forget.

As far as the Duratracs. I've seen a lot of people online complain about noise and a lot of people say the opposite. There's at least two compounds in these tires, though, one is severe snow rated and one isn't. I wonder if that's not some of the difference in people's experiences. I'm going to 35" on the PW when my OEM's die, but probably not Duratrac.

Can you get 35’s to fit a PW without mods?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Can you get 35’s to fit a PW without mods?

Yes, with stock rims and no mods 35" will fit and completely stuff at full flex without rubbing.

37" with the proper offset rims, though some tires require minor trimming of a pinch weld depending on how true sized they are and if you're actually going to flex it.

40" requires some fender trimming.

 

[KLB]

Huh. I’d never considered parking garage design and accommodating significant EV parking.

”"A lot of these parking structures were built to hold vehicles that weighed 2,000 to 4,000 pounds — not 10,000 pounds," Michael Brooks, executive director of the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety, told The Associated Press. “

US guardrail system can’t handle heavy EVs, preliminary test crashes indicate

A new study has raised concerns about the ability of the nation’s guardrails to handle electric vehicles, which weigh thousands of pounds more than the average gas-powered sedan.

www.foxbusiness.com

Nice quote. Where are the 10K weight vehicles?

Most EVs weigh about the same as a pickup or gas SUV. The example they used only weighed 7K.

Who is driving these smaller gas vehicles? They haven't been popular for a long time. SUVs and pickups are what people drive, and they are not much lighter than the EVs. The Explorer has a curb weight of 4,345lbs, the Model Y is 4,154–4,404 lb.

The article they are using as their source was a better article.

Nebraska experts weigh highway safety and electric vehicles

The Midwest Roadside Safety Facility at the University of Nebraska–Lincoln has mobilized to answer the safety and military defense questions raised by the burgeoning number of electric vehicles on the nation’s roadways.

news.unl.edu

 

[smokingman]

GM Shifting From EVs To Plug-In Hybrids, Following Industry Trends | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[smokingman]

Why do you think they aren't a good choice for rural living?

"Well, last week, I was driving down the highway and my Model S just turned off. I managed to get pulled off and called a tow truck who took it to the service center. The service center proceeded to drop the battery and send me pictures of mud on the undercarriage and told me that was evidence of misuse of the vehicle and they wouldn't cover replacement of my $8,000 rear motor (which had shorted out) under warranty.

Yep, driving down a dirt road is misusing a Tesla."



I happen to live on a gravel road,that is often little more than mud. 4x4 is required in the rain or snow(it is rarely even plowed).

 

[smokingman]

In

In what way is Consumer Reports woke? I haven't heard that before.

Consumer Reports Annual Report 2021

Trust In The Era Of Misinformation

www.consumerreports.org

This ongoing work draws from our commitment to building an inclusive culture and rests on the core values of CR:

• We are mission-driven.
• We are science-based.
• We are people-centered.

We cannot live up to these values without fully integrating DEI into our strategies, our ways of working, and our culture. To develop a shared understanding of how CR could evolve to create a meaningful shift across the organization, we invited Partners for Racial Equity (PRE) to guide the entire organization. It was a process grounded in our shared discovery and inquiry to build new skills for engaging across differences and learn how to put the new awareness and skills into practice for broader impact and meaningful change.

 

[KLB]

"Well, last week, I was driving down the highway and my Model S just turned off. I managed to get pulled off and called a tow truck who took it to the service center. The service center proceeded to drop the battery and send me pictures of mud on the undercarriage and told me that was evidence of misuse of the vehicle and they wouldn't cover replacement of my $8,000 rear motor (which had shorted out) under warranty.

Yep, driving down a dirt road is misusing a Tesla."
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View attachment 330056

I happen to live on a gravel road,that is often little more than mud. 4x4 is required in the rain or snow(it is rarely even plowed).

Then I guess you wouldn't be buying any sport sedan, would you?

 

[MCgrease08]

The main downside to hybrids as I see it is the high complexity of their systems. My GF has a '16 Prius that gets from 45-62mpg depending on driving conditions. It's great when it works, but even minor problems can be a real pain to diagnose and repair and usually require a trip to the dealer as 3rd party shops don't often have the equipment nor mechanics experienced with hybrid tech.

i.e. Her Prius recently started strange behavior - coming to a stop the engine would sometimes not shut down and the idle RPMs would begin going wild. Dealer had no idea and charged her a $180 just to say they couldn't find a problem. It turned out to be the evap purge valve was stuck open. It had been replaced once before (by me) with a non-oem NAPA part that turned out to have a very short life. Replaced with a genuine Toyota part and it's fixed.

And $80 for nothing more than a plastic encased solenoid valve?

As a guy that's owned a few Toyotas I have learned to go with OEM parts if at all possible. I've been disappointed with most aftermarket stuff. Buy once cry once.

 

[indyblue]

As a guy that's owned a few Toyotas I have learned to go with OEM parts if at all possible. I've been disappointed with most aftermarket stuff. Buy once cry once.

This is generally true however, there are some aftermarket parts that exceed their OEM counterparts specs for less cost, but there’s no real way to tell which ones do and that’s the problem (which is true for any vehicle not just hybrids).

 

[smokingman]

Then I guess you wouldn't be buying any sport sedan, would you?

I have a volvo s90,and two 4x4 vehicles. What I drive depends on the weather and purpose.

I am not totally against the tech by the way. I had a 2006 and 2008 Prius for our real estate company agents as they were cost effective. They were also total crap in bad weather due to low rolling resistance tires. They were hybrids though.

Our grid can simply not handle everyone trying to drive electric cars, 10% of drivers being electric would wreck our reliability.

 

[bwframe]

$1.3M Fire at GM Plant Likely Caused by Punctured Batteries

A forklift hit a pallet of EV batteries.

www.manufacturing.net

 

[KLB]

I have a volvo s90,and two 4x4 vehicles. What I drive depends on the weather and purpose.

I am not totally against the tech by the way. I had a 2006 and 2008 Prius for our real estate company agents as they were cost effective. They were also total crap in bad weather due to low rolling resistance tires. They were hybrids though.

Our grid can simply not handle everyone trying to drive electric cars, 10% of drivers being electric would wreck our reliability.

No one here is arguing for everyone to drive them.