The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[KLB]

This is a fair point. I was curious why the story focused on Florida EV drivers specifically. Do the same EV car/tire combo last longer in Michigan?? Anyway, cheap tires suck, just ask Nascar from a few years back. But with the range given for EV tires, heck, it could triple and still be lousy.


Your numbers seem incredibly low. Obviously I don't know enough to judge the range outright. I used to own a fleet of trucks, currently own 5 personal autos. I won't even quantify the trailers. I've never encountered 20k mi. wearout on tires. Some of mine have high-end rubber, some have the best balance I thought I could get vis-a-vis cost and rated mileage. Also, I've never swapped wheels between summer/winter, though I think it's a good idea. I just didn't want the cost of extra wheels and storage space.

Most people buy tires looking at price and how many miles the warranty is good for. I buy tires for traction. Summer performance tires are not designed to last long. They are designed to give you the best traction in warm weather and wet weather. 20-40K is about the range for them.

Most Winter tires don't even have mileage warranties. Again, I buy them for maximum traction in Winter. I like to get going when I need to go, turn when I try to turn, and stop when I want to stop.

Up north winter tires on a sedan would be super soft and you wouldn’t want to leave them on much past last snow chance. I’ve averaged around 60Kish on Cooper tires on a 4x4 Tundra over the last 24 years. If I only got 20K on a set of tires I’d be looking for somebody’s head. But I could maybe see it on some high performance thing driven spiritedly. I drive like an old man cause, well I’m an old man!

Winter tires should be used as long as the temps stay below 40-45. Here that means generally mid to late Nov to Mid to late March.

 

[KLB]

My guess is this shock can be partially attributed to many buyers of EV’s likely have never had such expensive tires. Then with the weight of the EV’s it is not a surprise to many of us that have been around.

You're right. Most issues people have with things like that are because they do not do the research before they buy. They just get what they think is cool, or looks nice.

 

[Magyars]

 

[bwframe]

Danger, mistrust, fear: Local schools' switch to electric buses is causing fissures

“We’ve had several breakdowns while the buses were in motion,” one of the sources familiar with MCCSC transportation issues said.

www.heraldtimesonline.com

...Local electric school buses are breaking down much more often than their diesel counterparts and often take much longer to repair — sometimes months, MCCSC transportation insiders said.

What’s more, the sources said, the buses often break down without warning, leaving the bus stranded in the middle of an intersection or on a hill, potentially endangering drivers and students.

“We’ve had several breakdowns while the buses were in motion,” one of the sources familiar with MCCSC transportation issues said.

“You’re dead in the water,” said another.

The sources emphasized they were not aware of any accidents that had occurred as a result of a bus breakdown, but said they’ve had close calls and worry that accidents are but a matter of time.

Five Monroe County Community Schools Corp. transportation employees spoke on condition of anonymity, as they were not authorized by the administration to speak publicly. The sources said if they allowed their names to be used in the story, they feared being fired...

 

[Leadeye]

Sometimes I buy tires just because they look good on the car.

 

[actaeon277]

Danger, mistrust, fear: Local schools' switch to electric buses is causing fissures

“We’ve had several breakdowns while the buses were in motion,” one of the sources familiar with MCCSC transportation issues said.

www.heraldtimesonline.com

View attachment 329504

...Local electric school buses are breaking down much more often than their diesel counterparts and often take much longer to repair — sometimes months, MCCSC transportation insiders said.

What’s more, the sources said, the buses often break down without warning, leaving the bus stranded in the middle of an intersection or on a hill, potentially endangering drivers and students.

“We’ve had several breakdowns while the buses were in motion,” one of the sources familiar with MCCSC transportation issues said.

“You’re dead in the water,” said another.

The sources emphasized they were not aware of any accidents that had occurred as a result of a bus breakdown, but said they’ve had close calls and worry that accidents are but a matter of time.

Five Monroe County Community Schools Corp. transportation employees spoke on condition of anonymity, as they were not authorized by the administration to speak publicly. The sources said if they allowed their names to be used in the story, they feared being fired...

Well, I hate to point it out... but....
ICE engines break down in motion.
And they often break without warning.

Now, the arguments about taking more money and time.. I'll go with those arguments.

 

[JCSR]

Well, I hate to point it out... but....
ICE engines break down in motion.
And they often break without warning.

Now, the arguments about taking more money and time.. I'll go with those arguments.

Electric motors don't start knocking they just let out a extreme amount of smoke.

 

[Magyars]

 

[manifest destiny]

EV owners might want to add an extension cord to their get-home-bag. I'll assume a good pair of walking shoes were already in their bag.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Oh? What are these high maintenance costs?

Ask Hertz?



" Hertz, previously an eager early adopter of fleet electrification, announced a big sell-off of EVs that it had only recently purchased, mainly because they proved far more expensive to maintain than advertised. "

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Tapping the Brakes on Electric Vehicles

Tesla will fix its cold-weather woes, but an all-EV future is still dead on arrival.

www.city-journal.org

Interesting article. A few snippets I found interesting.

Sausage making is interesting...

"And now leasing has soared to over half of all EV sales, as it’s the only way to capture the federal $7,500 tax credit for most EVs. How so? By law, that credit is supposedly available only when purchasing vehicles built with materials sourced primarily in the U.S. This domestic-sourcing feature is what it took, reportedly, to get West Virginia senator Joe Machin on board to pass the all-partisan Inflation Reduction Act, because, as he surely knew, nearly all battery materials are currently foreign-made and will remain so for ages. However, the final legislation had a surreptitious exception allowing the credit for leased vehicles built with foreign materials."

"One shouldn’t be surprised that the data show that building EVs entails no less labor; it just shifts it to different components and places. Tesla, the world’s biggest non-Chinese EV maker, employs about 90 people per 1,000 cars produced per year. About 80 people are employed per 1,000 conventional cars produced. Neither figure includes the upstream labor for the materials supplied to the factories.

A conventional car’s weight is 85 percent steel and iron, wherein that upstream supply chain employs less than one person per 1,000 vehicles produced. Most of an EV’s weight lies in more exotic minerals, especially aluminum and copper. That upstream supply chain employs roughly 30 people per 1,000 EVs. Nearly all that labor is offshore.

The underlying materials requirement is the single constraint that will cause the EV stall-out before other factors kick in. All the world’s mines, both currently operating and planned, can supply only a small fraction of the 700 percent to 4,000 percent increase in various minerals that will be needed to meet the wildly ambitious EV goals. The IEA estimates that we’ll need hundreds of new mega-mines to feed factories across the “transition” landscape, and that it takes 10 to 16 years to find, plan, and open a new mine."

"And that doesn’t count eye-wateringly expensive grid upgrades needed for on-road superchargers. To be clear, this is not about energy, but about the hardware needed to deliver the energy, especially grid-scale transformers. Today, a roadside fuel station puts an electric power load (again, not energy) on the grid equal to just one 7-Eleven store. A typical EV fueling station will have the power demand of a stadium. Highways need tens of thousands of fuel stations. "

 

[MCgrease08]

Interesting article. A few snippets I found interesting.

Sausage making is interesting...

"And now leasing has soared to over half of all EV sales, as it’s the only way to capture the federal $7,500 tax credit for most EVs. How so? By law, that credit is supposedly available only when purchasing vehicles built with materials sourced primarily in the U.S. This domestic-sourcing feature is what it took, reportedly, to get West Virginia senator Joe Machin on board to pass the all-partisan Inflation Reduction Act, because, as he surely knew, nearly all battery materials are currently foreign-made and will remain so for ages. However, the final legislation had a surreptitious exception allowing the credit for leased vehicles built with foreign materials."

"One shouldn’t be surprised that the data show that building EVs entails no less labor; it just shifts it to different components and places. Tesla, the world’s biggest non-Chinese EV maker, employs about 90 people per 1,000 cars produced per year. About 80 people are employed per 1,000 conventional cars produced. Neither figure includes the upstream labor for the materials supplied to the factories.

A conventional car’s weight is 85 percent steel and iron, wherein that upstream supply chain employs less than one person per 1,000 vehicles produced. Most of an EV’s weight lies in more exotic minerals, especially aluminum and copper. That upstream supply chain employs roughly 30 people per 1,000 EVs. Nearly all that labor is offshore.

The underlying materials requirement is the single constraint that will cause the EV stall-out before other factors kick in. All the world’s mines, both currently operating and planned, can supply only a small fraction of the 700 percent to 4,000 percent increase in various minerals that will be needed to meet the wildly ambitious EV goals. The IEA estimates that we’ll need hundreds of new mega-mines to feed factories across the “transition” landscape, and that it takes 10 to 16 years to find, plan, and open a new mine."

"And that doesn’t count eye-wateringly expensive grid upgrades needed for on-road superchargers. To be clear, this is not about energy, but about the hardware needed to deliver the energy, especially grid-scale transformers. Today, a roadside fuel station puts an electric power load (again, not energy) on the grid equal to just one 7-Eleven store. A typical EV fueling station will have the power demand of a stadium. Highways need tens of thousands of fuel stations. "

Pfft. Are you going to let a silly thing like facts get in the way of the clean energy utopia?

 

[jamil]

I read the original story. Jalopnik left out the people saying they have 20k+ on their tires and they are still like new. I don't doubt there are some people needing tires at really low mileage if they are buying the really soft compound tires then hammering the car. Probably some Chinesium baloney skins that are "just as good as..." like you see on bro-dozers. I think we even have a Chinesium tire thread on INGO somewhere.

Well let's not forget people who might be complaining about how few miles they're getting out of their EV's might just leave it in ludicrous mode. Not very conducive to long tread wear.

Speaking of tires and longevity, I wish those damn Duratrac's on my truck would hurry and wear out. They've been great in mud, in the snow, in the rain. They're noisy as ****. They seem to hit a resonant frequency at about 60 MPH and the high noise it drives me nuts. I just want them to die. (not with inopportune timing)

 

[firecadet613]

Not true EV, but Stellantis is having MAJOR issues with hybrids going dead.

Brand new cars, some not even sold, staying "awake" until the battery is dead.

2024 ram push to start not turning off draining battery

Hello all, new to this forum, first post. Just purchased a 2024 ram big horn quad cab. Had it for about 5 days, no issues, then one day I went to start it, dead battery. Jumped it and brought it to dealer, they diagnosed it as a bad battery. ok. Two days later, I had the same issue, dead...

5thgenrams.com

https://www.4xeforums.com/threads/instrument-cluster-never-turns-off.6209/

Just in case you needed another reason to NOT want a high tech or "connected" car...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Pfft. Are you going to let a silly thing like facts get in the way of the clean energy utopia?

Science denier.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well let's not forget people who might be complaining about how few miles they're getting out of their EV's might just leave it in ludicrous mode. Not very conducive to long tread wear.

Speaking of tires and longevity, I wish those damn Duratrac's on my truck would hurry and wear out. They've been great in mud, in the snow, in the rain. They're noisy as ****. They seem to hit a resonant frequency at about 60 MPH and the high noise it drives me nuts. I just want them to die. (not with inopportune timing)

I did say "... then hammering the car." so I didn't forget.

As far as the Duratracs. I've seen a lot of people online complain about noise and a lot of people say the opposite. There's at least two compounds in these tires, though, one is severe snow rated and one isn't. I wonder if that's not some of the difference in people's experiences. I'm going to 35" on the PW when my OEM's die, but probably not Duratrac.

 

[KLB]

Ask Hertz?

View attachment 329795

" Hertz, previously an eager early adopter of fleet electrification, announced a big sell-off of EVs that it had only recently purchased, mainly because they proved far more expensive to maintain than advertised. "

That is high repair costs.

"While direct operating expenses per transaction day, excluding collision and damage, will be flat for the quarter and down for the year, expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter, thereby supporting the Company's decision to initiate the material reduction in the EV fleet," the company said.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That is high repair costs.

I'm just quoting the article.

 

[manifest destiny]

Hybrids (non-plug in) would have gained more market share than pure EV's. The .gov is being heavy handed with their EV demands. I think consumers would have been more open to trying a hybrid. Costs, both purchase and maintenance, appears to be another sticking point.

 

[Born2vette]

Consumer Reports which is a pretty woke org says this is one of the least reliable cars. The Model 3, their most popular car is only slightly below average in reliability.