The Ethanol Lie

[Ziggidy]

are there any side effects of running 100% gas in a vehicle that has lived on 90% gas?

 

[Cameramonkey]

I had to replace one and rebuild another carb on my lawn equipment from the crap ass fuel they are shoving up our tail pipes.
The chain saw (new carb and tune up last summer) will not run either. Hit it with starter fluid and it pops right off until it burns all the fluid. Prime indicator the carb is in need of attention. It's a lot of happy horse in my book.

Countrymark station in Clermont. 90+ is their pure gas. I run that for my outboard.

 

[Cameramonkey]

OK I have heard of this. I use Marvel and it does what I expected from using it.
5 ounces per 5 gallons.

Yes. Marvel is great. I even knew of a A&P that used it in both the oil and occasional fuel in his aircraft. He swore by it.

 

[Hardscrable]

Sure would be nice to be able to purchase 100% gasoline for all of our vehicles, road or off road!

Ban ethanol!

Not too hard to find in our area. Usually 90 octane and 15-20% higher price at a gas station, more at a marina. That is all I have used for many years in older motors/vehicles, lawn & garden, 2 strokes, boats, etc.

 

[Hardscrable]

Countrymark station in Clermont. 90+ is their pure gas. I run that for my outboard.

I believe all CountryMark ( Farm Bureau ) stations have it.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I believe all CountryMark ( Farm Bureau ) stations have it.

Negative ghost rider. At least not in the big city. I went to the closest one to me (west Washington) and they didn’t have it. Worker told me only Clermont had it in the metro area.

But rural stations I believe you are right.

 

[Leo]

are there any side effects of running 100% gas in a vehicle that has lived on 90% gas?

No problems, the only side effect is better mileage with any closed loop fuel system that adjusts the fuel according the the 02 sensor reading, which is anything made for at least the last 30 years.

The government does really screw with the car makers. They legislate strict mileage standards, strict emission standards and then mandate fuel that has less energy per gallon, and lubricating oil with less zinc additives that keep the cams from wearing. They are like a teen age daughter, all dreams and demands, no reality.

Any legislator without an engineering degree should not author laws that affect manufacturing.

 

[Ingomike]

Ethanol in gas is truly a scam. It is not something that "comes from the left", etc.. It was put in place to support the price of corn, plain and simple. Big Corn lobbied hard for the now ingrained federal ethanol programs. Yes, we would all be better off for gas cost, gas mileage and longevity of our vehicles if we could run pure gas all the time. I run pure gas whenever I can.

The farm lobby was big on ethanol as one would expect, but it would not have passed we’re it not for the alliance with enviros wanting to feel good about renewables, that made it a bipartisan screwing of the people…

 

[Mark-DuCo]

I heard someone say that the way things are going, one day everything will run on hopes and dreams.

Don't let the government know, they'll start taxing those too.

 

[Hardscrable]

Negative ghost rider. At least not in the big city. I went to the closest one to me (west Washington) and they didn’t have it. Worker told me only Clermont had it in the metro area.

But rural stations I believe you are right.

Not familiar with big city so… Also my immediate area is lake country so non-ethanol is very common.

 

[Ark]

Anyone who didn't know this only needed to look at the energy density of alcohol vs gasoline to understand why it was a stupid idea.

If we wanted to do things better, we'd be running on natural gas and hydrogen. Better energy density, less fuel needed to get the same work done. Pollution almost ends up being irrelevant after you consider the difference in quantity used. It also burns ridiculously clean and will make an engine last far longer than gasoline.

E85 has 40% lower energy density to gasoline, meaning you'll burn almost 2 gallons of E85 for every gallon of gasoline you would have used. Straight alcohol has 53% less energy density than gasoline.

In fact the modern E10 fuels we run have 7% less energy density than straight gasoline. They also foul up almost everything in an engine, as most engines and fuel systems were never designed for it, and I wouldn't be surprised if that causes considerable emissions as a result.

To my knowledge, running a car on natural gas or propane is relatively trivial to do as well, regardless of its age.

The problem is that gas and ethanol enjoy the massive advantage of being liquid at room temperature and one atmosphere. You can pour it from a can, pump it easily, store it in a non pressure vessel, fill it from an old beat up pump spout that doesn't need to seal. The energy density is incredible and handling is safe and easy.

Liquid hydrogen is far too cold for automotive use. Gaseous hydrogen is the hardest element in the physical universe to store in a tank. Propane and NG aren't much better. How do you find a leak? Design a filling station fitting that can last hundreds of thousands of uses while sitting exposed in the elements for years? Gaseous fuels have huge practical problems.

The bigger problem with ethanol IMO is the absolute irresponsible rape of vital farmland that we need to feed people. Depleting the soil to grow plants to burn in cars is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

 

[Ingomike]

are there any side effects of running 100% gas in a vehicle that has lived on 90% gas?

I have not seen any negative ones. My gas gauge stopped going to full in 2011 on my 05 truck. (Had receipt for when checked.). The dealer wanted $600 for a new fuel pump, decided it worked 3/4 and below so did not fix. (Did try an $11 a bottle fuel treatmeant that did correct it.)

In 2018 the truck was not running well and on a whim decided to try pure gas, it ran better so I kept using the pure gas. (I have a relationship with this truck that you only get by 200,000 miles over 17 years.). By the third tank the gauge was working correctly after 6 years of not. It still works as it should but just one tank of E10 and it does not. (No one can explain this to me.)

 

[Pepi]

I had to replace one and rebuild another carb on my lawn equipment from the crap ass fuel they are shoving up our tail pipes.
The chain saw (new carb and tune up last summer) will not run either. Hit it with starter fluid and it pops right off until it burns all the fluid. Prime indicator the carb is in need of attention. It's a lot of happy horse in my book.

It may be expensive but I've been buying cans of fuel that are pure gasoline. Even smells different burning. No more carb problems in the last few years.

 

[phylodog]

It's fun being a pawn.

 

[Ingomike]

It may be expensive but I've been buying cans of fuel that are pure gasoline. Even smells different burning. No more carb problems in the last few years.

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=IN the site says you can get it here at 4 Seasons Sales…

 

[ditcherman]

Hopefully the pure as wind driven snow hearts over at big oil can overcome the evil purveyors of death in the big corn lobby and save us.

Apply purple wherever you want.

Not arguing the merits of this study, I really have no idea of the science behind it but might approach it with some caution as to who funded it, etc.

ETA This thread does make me want to try out some pure gas in my tundra, if anything could get better mileage that’d be it.

 

[ditcherman]

The problem is that gas and ethanol enjoy the massive advantage of being liquid at room temperature and one atmosphere. You can pour it from a can, pump it easily, store it in a non pressure vessel, fill it from an old beat up pump spout that doesn't need to seal. The energy density is incredible and handling is safe and easy.

Liquid hydrogen is far too cold for automotive use. Gaseous hydrogen is the hardest element in the physical universe to store in a tank. Propane and NG aren't much better. How do you find a leak? Design a filling station fitting that can last hundreds of thousands of uses while sitting exposed in the elements for years? Gaseous fuels have huge practical problems.

The bigger problem with ethanol IMO is the absolute irresponsible rape of vital farmland that we need to feed people. Depleting the soil to grow plants to burn in cars is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

Hang on a minute, wut?
Irresponsible rape?
Why would we deplete the soil to grow plants to burn in cars? So we can eventually not grow anything? No one wants to do that, except the guys that pay high cash rent to just say they are big farmers, and even most of them still take care of the ground.

My point is, we were growing corn long before ethanol, and if the subsidies for ethanol go away we will still grow corn.

There is certainly an argument against the monoculture corn/bean rotation, but it isn’t connected to ethanol.

There is also certainly an argument against using farmland to make gas vs feed people, but I assure you if people are hungry it will be used for food before ethanol.

It’s not vital, people aren’t nearly hungry enough yet for it to be vital.

Where do you get at this idea that ethanol causes rape of farm ground?

 

[Ingomike]

This thread does make me want to try out some pure gas in my tundra, if anything could get better mileage that’d be it.

What year is it? If newer than 2011 they were tuned to run on E10 and I doubt it would make a big difference but it sure would not hurt to try.

 

[Ingomike]

Hang on a minute, wut?
Irresponsible rape?
Why would we deplete the soil to grow plants to burn in cars? So we can eventually not grow anything? No one wants to do that, except the guys that pay high cash rent to just say they are big farmers, and even most of them still take care of the ground.

My point is, we were growing corn long before ethanol, and if the subsidies for ethanol go away we will still grow corn.

There is certainly an argument against the monoculture corn/bean rotation, but it isn’t connected to ethanol.

There is also certainly an argument against using farmland to make gas vs feed people, but I assure you if people are hungry it will be used for food before ethanol.

It’s not vital, people aren’t nearly hungry enough yet for it to be vital.

Where do you get at this idea that ethanol causes rape of farm ground?

Just a question, do you think that ground will grow anything without all the fertilizers and pesticides?

 

[ditcherman]

What year is it? If newer than 2011 they were tuned to run on E10 and I doubt it would make a big difference but it sure would not hurt to try.

07, but I had to replace the tailgate on it and there is a E10 tag on it so it should be good to go right?
By the way your gas gauge story was interesting. Tundra gauges are notoriously off.