Student loan 'Forgiveness",Too little to help anyone, just enough to make everyone angry

[VERT]

The government should not be loaning money, let private markets do their thing…

Disagree. Student loan forgiveness is bad bad bad. But the way private student loans currently work is almost predatory. If the goal is to make college affordable then some rules and oversight need to be put into place. Whether the money loaned is backed by private lenders or some other source is irrelevant. Want to help kids then subsidize the loans during enrollment and let/make them pay it back at a reasonable rate.

 

[jamil]

Disagree. Student loan forgiveness is bad bad bad. But the way private student loans currently work is almost predatory. If the goal is to make college affordable then some rules and oversight need to be put into place. Whether the money loaned is backed by private lenders or some other source is irrelevant. Want to help kids then subsidize the loans during enrollment and let/make them pay it back at a reasonable rate.

I think it's okay to regulate student loans so that they're not predatory, but you can't do that when there's a crony relationship between lenders and the government. If it's funded directly by the government they're going to **** that up anyway. Make it private. And make the relationship between government and lenders adversarial. When they're friends, the private businesses will become predatory. There's no adversaries in the way.

 

[VERT]

I think it's okay to regulate student loans so that they're not predatory, but you can't do that when there's a crony relationship between lenders and the government. If it's funded directly by the government they're going to **** that up anyway. Make it private. And make the relationship between government and lenders adversarial. When they're friends, the private businesses will become predatory. There's no adversaries in the way.

True. The Feds will figure out a way to mess it all up.

We will never have non-predatory affordable loans, affordable medication and curb the raising costs of healthcare. I honestly believe there is simply too much funny money getting slipped into the hands of legislators behind the scene.

 

[jamil]

True. The Feds will figure out a way to mess it all up.

We will never have non-predatory affordable loans, affordable medication and curb the raising costs of healthcare. I honestly believe there is simply too much funny money getting slipped into the hands of legislators behind the scene.

In terms of our medical system, it's been completely turned crony over the past 30 or so years. Now there's a strong crony relationship between government, insurance companies, and providers. There isn't an actual functioning market. There are people who need healthcare. And people wishing to exploit them from that crony trifecta.

 

[Shadow01]

Progressive learning institutions should be working for free to put their money where their mouth is when promoting “free” college for everyone. Same for healthcare people that promote free healthcare.

 

[Shadow01]

Disagree. Student loan forgiveness is bad bad bad. But the way private student loans currently work is almost predatory. If the goal is to make college affordable then some rules and oversight need to be put into place. Whether the money loaned is backed by private lenders or some other source is irrelevant. Want to help kids then subsidize the loans during enrollment and let/make them pay it back at a reasonable rate.

Anything the government is involved in can be used to garner votes. they should not be in the loan business period. If there are issues with private loans fix them through legislation.

 

[VERT]

Anything the government is involved in can be used to garner votes. they should not be in the loan business period. If there are issues with private loans fix them through legislation.

The government is already involved in the student loan business in the form of Stafford loans. On the other side of the coin, I have no doubt that special interest money from banks representing private loans oozes into to fingers of politicians. What Biden tried to do was buy votes and would have done nothing to fix the broken system. It’s disgusting!!!! You are correct this needs fixed through legislation but we already know that won’t happen.

 

[Ingomike]

Now there's a strong crony relationship between government, insurance companies, and providers.

Isn't it interesting that the only other party to the deal is those needing and ultimately paying for the healthcare.

There isn't an actual functioning market.

No market at all..

 

[Ingomike]

Disagree. Student loan forgiveness is bad bad bad. But the way private student loans currently work is almost predatory. If the goal is to make college affordable then some rules and oversight need to be put into place. Whether the money loaned is backed by private lenders or some other source is irrelevant. Want to help kids then subsidize the loans during enrollment and let/make them pay it back at a reasonable rate.

There are few private student loans, this is all at the feet of obummer, he wrecked the private student loan business because they did not want to fund CRT degrees.

“Student loans debt is increasingly significantly, with total U.S. student loan debt reaching more than $1.7 trillion in the fourth quarter of 2022, according to Federal Reserve data. A majority of that debt is owned by the federal government.”

“Prior to the Affordable Care Act, a majority of student loans originated with a private lender but were guaranteed by the government, meaning taxpayers would foot the bill if student borrowers defaulted. In 2010, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated only 55% of loans fell into this category, compared to about 93% today.”

“At one time, the federal government did not own any student loans, although it has been guaranteeing loans since at least 1965. Student loans accounted for nearly 20% of all U.S. government assets in 2020.”

 

[VERT]

INGOmike. Don’t know if I agree or disagree. But what you posted shows the government has had its fingers in student loans since “at least 1965”. When I borrowed money for school in the 1990s it was with private lenders and subsidized by Uncle Sam. Loans were through the Stafford loan program. I know the lenders were private as my loans were bought, sold, transferred and refinanced. (How much of that funny money made it into the pockets of downstream individuals?)

My son is currently a Sophomore at Purdue. He has a Stafford loan. This is administrated with the Bursars office. Now…I don’t know if the monies come from private or federal sources. Honestly I don’t have a problem with the Feds (or private) loaning the money, after all it is repaid with interest. I mean if the Fed is securing the loans anyway, why not make some money along the way. We do not qualify for subsidies so interest is incurred while he is in school. There is a limit of what can be borrowed. $27000 over 4 years is the limit. There is some oversight and limitation to the interest charged.

I get a constant bombardment from banks offering student loans. Interest is variable, some upwards of 20+%. These would be in addition to the Stafford loans. I work with some younger people who got into some bad situations with loans such as these. These are were not federal backed loans. These are what I referred to as predatory. They are unsecured personal loans with banks, no oversight, come in official looking envelopes.

Why would people get these loans? Let’s break down the cost. Purdue is an estimated $91000 for 4 years. That is tuition, housing, etc. If a person can borrow $27000 that leaves $64000 or $16000 a year. So now we eat ramen noddles, ride the bus and work a part time job to put a big dent in that but for some families there is still a deficit.

The whole college system in the US is a broken scheme to siphon money off the middle class. Student loan debt relief is just a way to buy votes. Doesn’t change the fact that some changes need to happen and doing nothing is not the answer.

 

[KLB]

The whole college system in the US is a broken scheme to siphon money off the middle class. Student loan debt relief is just a way to buy votes. Doesn’t change the fact that some changes need to happen and doing nothing is not the answer.

Sure. Start with stop trying to get everyone to go to college, and stop the subsidies. The schools have been able to drive up prices because of the demand and the ease of getting money.

 

[Ingomike]

Sure. Start with stop trying to get everyone to go to college, and stop the subsidies. The schools have been able to drive up prices because of the demand and the ease of getting money.

Bingo! It is a circle, tuition is high, increase money to loan, raise tuition, increase money to loan, raise tuition. Tuition is one of the fastest rising costs, that, and healthcare and guess what they have in common, government interference…

 

[VERT]

Sure. Start with stop trying to get everyone to go to college, and stop the subsidies. The schools have been able to drive up prices because of the demand and the ease of getting money.

Not everyone needs to go to college. But everyone should have the opportunity to pursue the career they desire. You are correct that there is an artificially high demand for college.

Stop subsidies? Maybe, Maybe not. Keep in mind a lot of a Universities money comes from grants, endowments, donations, etc. Even public universities are like running a business. Whether we call it a research grant or subsidy is really splitting hairs and I have no problem investing in R&D. Keep in mind a lot of professors at a Tier 1 research school like Purdue are not involved with undergraduate education.

When I mentioned subsidizing stafford loans before it referred to the loan itself. A subsidized stafford loan no interest is incurred while the student is in school. This is only available to low income students. All stafford loans are secured by the government.

 

[VERT]

Bingo! It is a circle, tuition is high, increase money to loan, raise tuition, increase money to loan, raise tuition. Tuition is one of the fastest rising costs, that, and healthcare and guess what they have in common, government interference…

Tuition in Indiana has basically been flat at public institutions for a number of years. It is the housing that is is currently out of control. Housing actually cost my son more than tuition.

Federal Stafford loans come no where near covering the cost of college. It is the unsecured private student loans that are eating peoples lunch. If a person claims $100k in student loan debt that is at least 70% unsecured loans with high variable interest rates.

 

[KLB]

Not everyone needs to go to college. But everyone should have the opportunity to pursue the career they desire. You are correct that there is an artificially high demand for college.

Why? If everyone wants to be a doctor, then everyone should get to be a doctor? It doesn't matter if we need that many or not, they want to be doctors.

What about the ones that want to drop all of that money for something that they can't even make a career out of?

If someone wants a career and is willing to work to get it, there is little to nothing stopping them from getting it. That doesn't mean that everyone needs to be handed the means to do so.

It is the unsecured private student loans that are eating peoples lunch. If a person claims $100k in student loan debt that is at least 70% unsecured loans with high variable interest rates.

I have no more sympathy for these people than I did for the ones with variable mortgages on expensive homes back in the housing market crash. When you take out a loan, it is on you to know what you are agreeing to. The lender can't hide any facts about the loan, but that really isn't what we are talking about is it?

You are basically saying that since the minimum payments are not high enough to pay off the loan, that the loan is predatory. Again, it is somehow not the responsibility of the person taking the loan to actually pay off the loan, which includes how much they have to pay to do so. If the minimum wasn't low, then their would be complaints about how much the person has to pay.

It all boils down to personal choice and responsibility.

 

[jamil]

Not everyone needs to go to college. But everyone should have the opportunity to pursue the career they desire. You are correct that there is an artificially high demand for college.

Not everyone can pursue it, and if subsidized, should be allowed. Years ago I tutored for a local community college. I tutored a guy who wanted to learn how to code. Specifically video games. He wasted the people’s money. The state was paying his way. He did not have the aptitude for it. Or college for that matter. He said it was his dream to code video games. He flunked out of college. It didn’t help that he was stoned every day.

Stop subsidies? Maybe, Maybe not. Keep in mind a lot of a Universities money comes from grants, endowments, donations, etc. Even public universities are like running a business. Whether we call it a research grant or subsidy is really splitting hairs and I have no problem investing in R&D. Keep in mind a lot of professors at a Tier 1 research school like Purdue are not involved with undergraduate education.

Subsidizing education is also the state paying for tuition. If giving students money for school ends up helping them to have a career, then fine. There will be dividends for society in that person becoming a tax paying citizen. But there has to be strings attached. I’d rather have programs to help people with aptitude go to college than create a crony industry that helps people go in debt.

When I mentioned subsidizing stafford loans before it referred to the loan itself. A subsidized stafford loan no interest is incurred while the student is in school. This is only available to low income students. All stafford loans are secured by the government.

 

[VERT]

Why? If everyone wants to be a doctor, then everyone should get to be a doctor? It doesn't matter if we need that many or not, they want to be doctors.

No. But anyone should have the opportunity to earn being a doctor.

What about the ones that want to drop all of that money for something that they can't even make a career out of?

Then they made a bad decision and need to repay what they borrowed or otherwise live with their decision.

If someone wants a career and is willing to work to get it, there is little to nothing stopping them from getting it. That doesn't mean that everyone needs to be handed the means to do so.

Handed the means. No. Provided the opportunity yes. As far as nothing stopping them? While I appreciate and agree with the sentiment that is a naive view.

I have no more sympathy for these people than I did for the ones with variable mortgages on expensive homes back in the housing market crash. When you take out a loan, it is on you to know what you are agreeing to. The lender can't hide any facts about the loan, but that really isn't what we are talking about is it?

I agree and no it isn’t

You are basically saying that since the minimum payments are not high enough to pay off the loan, that the loan is predatory. Again, it is somehow not the responsibility of the person taking the loan to actually pay off the loan, which includes how much they have to pay to do so. If the minimum wasn't low, then there would be complaints about how much the person has to pay.

Not sure how you think I said that. My guess is we are 99% on the same page. But desperate people do desperate things. Or at the very least if you really want something you are willing to make bad decisions.

It all boils down to personal choice and responsibility.

Correct

For the record I don’t support student loan forgiveness. I also think college is overpriced and not necessarily a good choice. I also don’t believe it is the best or only means to success. I’m saying that as a product of academia with a couple degrees. I was given that opportunity because I was good academically and my family was poor. I took my grants, scholarships and paid off my loans. Unfortunately my career while successful is not what I would have chosen, but I can help my kids pursue college. Not all middle class families are so lucky. We are blessed. My wife whom I met 30 years ago in college were both shall we say non-affluent families and both went on to have successful careers.

 

[dudley0]

While both my kids were in college they met a LOT of people that shouldn't or didn't want to be there. Some were friends from high school that struggled back then and then failed in college.

I think about all the loans that were taken out and never utilized. I also think about all the grants or scholarships that were wasted because the kid couldn't get up and go to class without parents pushing them. Easier to sow wild oats instead of doing homework.

Have a cousin who didn't pay for any of his kids college. His thought was if they really wanted to go they would figure it out. Not sure if any of them did finish, and he has like 7 kids total.

I saved a lot of money by buying a house for my kids to stay in while they completed their four year degrees. I also saved a ton of money by having them sign up for all kinds of scholarships, grants and such. It helped that they made good grades.

They both got their bachelor's degrees and had zero debt. A lot was because we could help, but they worked towards the end goal.

My youngest went on to get a master's using the money saved from working. No debt.

My oldest went on to get her master's as well with a loan from a Discover card. Zero interest if paid off in time. She was on the right track, got a little worried and then mom saved her. Now we have assumed the rest of the loan and she is paying it back at 0%. Not my call tho.

Nobody forces anybody to go to college. They push, but it isn't for everyone. I went later in life and never completed either of my degrees. Never owed anyone a cent for it either.

It really is like the mortgage industry before the crash. Stupid people wanted to be living large. They took out loans for houses nobody thought they could afford in the long run. I am sure there were some predatory lenders that didn't talk thru everything about the loan. That isn't right and shame on them.

BUT... if you make minimum wage under 40 hours a week with no benefits why the hell do you think you should buy a house for 100k? (In that time frame minimum wage wasn't double digits)

That is another topic I know. I also know I have mentioned all this before. My computer crashed for a few days and I am just happy to be posting anywhere right now. The boss wasn't happy with me using her computer for my stuff that wasn't work related.

I will end by saying Go SCOTUS!

 

[04FXSTS]

I wanted a new Harley Davidson and my wife wanted to become a RN with a Batchlors degree. She started school and worked part tie as much as she could with school work as priority one. I made good money as a tool & die maker and grabbed up any overtime available and helped around the house to give her more study time. The summer of 2001 we could see that she would graduate in the spring of 2003. So I ordered my Springer Softail the 2004 model so it would be hereafter she ws out of school. She walked out of there with NO DEBT NO LOAN BALANCES. And now in about 4 months in came my bike when I had the money to pay for it. Jim.

 

[Ingomike]

It’s back…

Biden Administration Announces It Will Cancel $39 Billion in Student Loan Debt

townhall.com