Rittenhouse pleads 'Not Guilty'

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  • thunderchicken

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    Just as so many other here, based on the videos and supported by the prosecution witness that even stated he was only shot after pointing his pistol at KR, I don't see anything to support/justify the charges.
    However just for conversation sake maybe the lawyers here can help me wrap my mind around a couple things.
    1-as a lawyer do you have a general idea for how the judge handles these cases before the trial starts? Like maybe when it is assigned to the judge?
    I ask because as a former court deputy, we generally saw the same handful of lawyers in the courtroom almost daily interacting with the judge. We knew certain lawyers who rubbed the judge the wrong way regularly.
    2- if both you as council and your client are as confident the evidence supports self defense (as it appears so clearly to be to many of us), why would you risk dealing with a jury decision rather than roll the dice on a bench trial?
    My thought would be the judge is more likely to hold fast to making a decision based on evidence either meeting or not meeting elements of the law. But, a jury who maybe concerned with safety/riots/media/mob rule etc are known to be unpredictable.
    3- if a mistrial or hung jury happens generally does the same judge sit over the retrial? If so, in the event of a retrial, could the jury be waived or would the defense be required to stay with the decision of a jury trial?
    4- could a motion be made even while the jury is deliberating to waive the jury and have the judge rule on the case?
     

    daddyusmaximus

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    I've had a few times when the guys that, just hours before, were slobering in their beer about having each others back, then went missing when **it got real. I forgive them, but... it saddened me when I learned the truth of it.

    I don't.

    Their lack of back up is what caused him to have to deal with this by using deadly force.
    A 17 year old kid... who came there to help... was left to fend off the mob on his own.

    Don't get me wrong. I support Kyle. I'm proud of him.
    IMHO, charges never should have been levied against him.
    He did everything right, shooting only when, and only who he needed to ensure his safety.
    However, had he not been left to face an angry violent mob all alone, none of this, would have ever happened.
     
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    Expat

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    Was he left by the others he was photographed with earlier that day or did he just become separated from the herd?
    From what I recall, a call came in that the defenders of the other car place had left and the mob were setting fires. No one else volunteered to go, so he grabbed a fire extinguisher and went down there.
     

    daddyusmaximus

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    Was he left by the others he was photographed with earlier that day or did he just become separated from the herd?

    It's a sure bet the mob tried to single him out, or at least single someone out.
    They needed an easy target for their rage.
    They're pack hunters, gutless, and without honor, or bravery when alone.
    Their power, and courage comes from their anonymity, and the secure knowledge of not having to pay any consequences for their actions because they are not a single person... they are a righteous mob.

    Point being, you cannot allow a member of your group to become targeted, and separated like that.
    You can't just run thinking "At least they aren't chasing me".
    That's the wrong kind of "heard mentality" to think that you can simply sacrifice a member of the herd to the predators, and the herd itself will remain strong.
    These predators are too many in number. The herd will be decimated, and become extinct.
     

    thunderchicken

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    It's a sure bet the mob tried to single him out, or at least single someone out.
    They needed an easy target for their rage.
    They're pack hunters, gutless, and without honor, or bravery when alone.
    Their power, and courage comes from their anonymity, and the secure knowledge of not having to pay any consequences for their actions because they are not a single person... they are a righteous mob.

    Point being, you cannot allow a member of your group to become targeted, and separated like that.
    You can't just run thinking "At least they aren't chasing me".
    That's the wrong kind of "heard mentality" to think that you can simply sacrifice a member of the herd to the predators, and the herd itself will remain strong.
    These predators are too many in number. The herd will be decimated, and become extinct.
    Oh I fully agreee.
    I was just curious if he had become separated by lack of communication/sticking together or if the group became scattered by being overwhelmed by the size of the mob of rioters
     

    Alpo

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    Looks like the jury foreman is a forewoman. That is, if the presiding juror is the foreperson.
     

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    IndyByteGuy

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    Looks like the jury foreman is a forewoman. That is, if the presiding juror is the foreperson.

    Juror 54 is also one of the few jurors without any firearm experience/ownership. Call me crazy, but she also just asked to take jury instructions home. Making me think she may be a bit of a stealth juror who snuck her way in with a purpose.
     

    HoughMade

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    Maybe they’re just going to delay the verdict until
    we turn old and gray and forget about it.
    The chances of a jury going past tomorrow and thus ruining their weekend is between 0% and 0%.

    I look for a verdict or deadlock claim by 3pm.

    ...but they don't know about an Allen charge, so just saying they are deadlocked won't necessarily end it.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    The chances of a jury going past tomorrow and thus ruining their weekend is between 0% and 0%.
    So guilty or hung? "sorry judge, we cant come to an agreement and we arent fighting over a weekend."

    Extra points for "We arent wasting our weekend over this clown show of a prosecution."
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    I didn't watch the trial, but it bothers me that you mention that the defense should have rebutted the claim better. It is remarkably easy to convince people that something is on video, or in a photo, if you tell them first what they are going to see and then show them the video. Most people will "see" what you told them they are going to see.
    Bothers? I guess I don’t understand that.

    I get that they’ll tend to see what they’re told they’re gonna see. I also think people can be open to rethinking that with a good reason to question what they thought they saw.
     

    jamil

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    Not sure but according to Robert Barnes they were offered the services of a very prominent attorney by the name of Andrew Branca who is said to have wrote the book on self defense case law and they turned it down.

    Speaking of Robert Barnes he should've been chosen as lead defense council. At one time he was a member of the defense team but he was shoved out in favor of Richardson.
    Barnes talked about that. He offered to be on the team but not in a lead role. It seemed that this was because of public perception of his political views. He said something to the effect that it’s better in a Democrat city to have defense council.
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Maybe slightly off topic, but it's been really bugging me...

    What about all those guys prathering on about "overwatch", and "I've got his back", blah, blah, blah... If KR ran off on his own down to the lot where the first shooting happened, maybe. What about when the horde was chasing him down the street, after shots fired no less? If they aren't going to step up, I'd rather skip the BS and know I'm on my own.

    You'd think they would have taken this kid under their wing and looked out for him a little better. Particularly any former soldiers in the group.

    I've had a few times when the guys that, just hours before, were slobering in their beer about having each others back, then went missing when **it got real. I forgive them, but... it saddened me when I learned the truth of it.
    You bring up a good point TD. "Never leave your wingman" means something. In a riot situation, team integrity really means something.
     
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