price of ammo

[WebSnyper]

What I'm asking is this: Even in this panic-driven, post-whatever, Democratic-president era...isn't there a point where you have "enough" ammo or reloading supplies?

If you "always" buy more, how do you distinguish yourself from the tin-foil-hatters?

Buying more when it is a good price, to have for future need, is a bit different than clearing out the shelves at whatever price you can get it at.

I'm buying so I can continue to shoot for a reasonable price should there be interruptions in supply due to political, or other concerns. I'm not buying every box of ammo I can find at whatever price it is available at and forgoing other necessities while doing it. Does that explain it?

 

[jamil]

What I'm asking is this: Even in this panic-driven, post-whatever, Democratic-president era...isn't there a point where you have "enough" ammo or reloading supplies?

If you "always" buy more, how do you distinguish yourself from the tin-foil-hatters?

Exchange "ammo" for "investment" and see if the same statement makes as much sense. There are more reasons to buy ammo than just to have enough for plinking.

 

[Hardscrable]

What I'm asking is this: Even in this panic-driven, post-whatever, Democratic-president era...isn't there a point where you have "enough" ammo or reloading supplies?

If you "always" buy more, how do you distinguish yourself from the tin-foil-hatters?

I consider it as being prepared. I have a generator that runs my whole house & shop when we are out of electricity. We have a pantry, refrigerator, & freezer full of more food than we can eat in weeks...this includes frozen milk, bread, and other staples. I have the ability to supplement that by hunting & fishing. We have gasoline & diesel fuel on hand. I find it pathetic that every time a snowstorm is forecast there is a run on the grocery stores because no one has enough milk, bread, eggs, etc. on hand to last a couple days.

As as for ammo, components, Guns, mags, etc., I don't consider IF they will be in short supply but when & for how long. My wife ask recently when is it enough...my answer was when I am sure that I have enough to out last me. I don't intend to EVER run out. Whenever I pass away, there will be guns, reloading equipment, holsters, etc along with other sporting equipment, motorcycles, etc. to be disposed of...I don't see any difference for any ammo remaining.

"Surplus" inventory can always be sold, traded, or loaned to a friend. If buying ammo or guns or new fishing rods or any non-essential item put our financial security in jeopardy that would change the equation but that is not the case. Shooting is a hobby as well as a way of life for me. I intend to enjoy it when I want and not let poor planning/foresight interfere. I also plan to have whatever I may need should S.H.T.F. One only needs to look at all the threads of whining & complaining of higher prices and shortages to realize the reality of planning ahead... Way ahead. If you think the last year and a half is the worst it could ever be, I disagree.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

We should get a master thread of what a good price is for the different calibers of ammo. I find myself looking at guns in a new caliber, but I fear taking the plunge without knowing how much it will cost to shoot. And with the ammo shelves looking like they do, it is hard to get a good handle on what I should be paying for a specific round.

 

[wtburnette]

We should get a master thread of what a good price is for the different calibers of ammo. I find myself looking at guns in a new caliber, but I fear taking the plunge without knowing how much it will cost to shoot. And with the ammo shelves looking like they do, it is hard to get a good handle on what I should be paying for a specific round.

That could be nice, though using ammo search tools like ammoseek or wikiarms is probably easier than trying to keep a master list of the best prices and sites. There are also a lot of variables. I have specific ammo that I will and won't use, don't care for steel / aluminum or reman ammo, etc. Just like looking up a reasonable price on a firearm, internet search tools are really helpful.

 

[jamil]

We should get a master thread of what a good price is for the different calibers of ammo. I find myself looking at guns in a new caliber, but I fear taking the plunge without knowing how much it will cost to shoot. And with the ammo shelves looking like they do, it is hard to get a good handle on what I should be paying for a specific round.

Well, the best price is $0.00/rnd.

"good" is relative. But I know what you mean. It's helpful to get a plurality of opinions on how much is too much so you avoid paying more than you should. But then it's just other people's opinions. What's is it worth to you and how bad do you want it?

For me, I won't spend more than $0.30/rnd for 9mm, but will usually hold out for < $0.28. Some people won't pay more than $0.25 or less. Before Newtown I rarely paid more than $0.23 / rnd, but that's not very realistic right now. So you have to weigh reality with other people's opinion.

As far as what guns to buy, I wouldn't necessarily avoid buying an interesting gun just because the ammo is more expensive. you don't have to buy a LOT of ammo for it.

Before Newtown I thought limiting my collection to guns in just a few inexpensive and readily available calibers seemed like a cost effective strategy. And that works if cost effectiveness is the only consideration. But watching my stash of 9mm slowly erode because there was no 9mm on the shelves made me decide that there are more considerations than just price of ammo.

During those times I noticed .40SW and then .45ACP became consistently available way before 9mm was. That made me decide that I needed to add some diversity to my collection.

 

[wtburnette]

During those times I noticed .40SW and then .45ACP became consistently available way before 9mm was. That made me decide that I needed to add some diversity to my collection.

I'm pretty new to firearms, but since starting to hit the range on a weekly basis in the last year, I've definitely noticed the same and have also considered adding a .40 and/or .45 to my collection.

 

[Broom_jm]

Exchange "ammo" for "investment" and see if the same statement makes as much sense. There are more reasons to buy ammo than just to have enough for plinking.

Isn't there a point where you have "enough" investments?

I think the question is still perfectly valid: I invest heavily in a variety of investment types, but readily acknowledge that there is such a thing as investing too much, for a given income level.

To paraphrase another poster: Do you plan to have enough investments (or ammo) to outlast your lifespan? If so, why?

 

[sethbowman]

Try looking for .500 s & w ammo.

 

[Hardscrable]

Isn't there a point where you have "enough" investments?

I think the question is still perfectly valid: I invest heavily in a variety of investment types, but readily acknowledge that there is such a thing as investing too much, for a given income level.

To paraphrase another poster: Do you plan to have enough investments (or ammo) to outlast your lifespan? If so, why?

What is the definition of "enough" investments ? To me that means more assets (cash, net income stream, investments that are liquidated for cash, etc. ) than I will need or want to spend until death plus what I wish to pass on to charities, family, taxes, etc. how much is that ? I do not know. That question would need to be answered to my satisfaction before I can declare it to be enough.

Diversified (variety as you state ) investment portfolio is essential... As in not putting all y.our eggs in one basket. Obtaining total quantity in each category of investment over time ( cost averaging) is also wise unless you can forecast highs, lows, price when you will liquidate said asset, etc.

You can definetly invest too much in anything for a given income level. If you make $100 dollars and invest $50 for retirement decades in the future while needing $75 to avoid foreclosure in 2 days - it's probably not in your best interest to do so. In my previous post I mentioned not doing anything that put my families financial security at stake. Food on the table and clothes on my kids back was always priority #1.

I definetly plan for enough investments/assets to outlast my life span... Have ever since I was a young man. I began working early in life. I saw a variety of older people...some did the minimum, spent what wasn't needed every week on "stuff" . I saw and was associated with many who started with nothing, nose to the grindstone, invested, saved, and most were self-employed. I liked their outcome better...I followed in their footsteps. I never felt social security or gov't money was to be relied on. It has served me well. I probably have "enough" BUT ...remember what happened to assets, investments, net worth a few years ago? What will a dollar today be worth 10 or 20 or ?? years from now ? How long will I live. What will my health and associated health care cost until then ? Again until all these questions are answered to my satisfaction, I do not have enough. And anything I make above my needs, goes to charity. I don't see the problem with continuing to obtain more...it is at no one else's cost. I am retired but that doesn't mean I have to quit advancing my financial position.

Ammo "investment" is somewhat similar. I do not know how many more rounds I will send down range. So I don't know yet how much is enough. I do know having inventory left after passing does not worry me. It will just compliment the disposal of guns & equipment and other toys, investments, assets, etc.

 

[jamil]

Isn't there a point where you have "enough" investments?

I think the question is still perfectly valid: I invest heavily in a variety of investment types, but readily acknowledge that there is such a thing as investing too much, for a given income level.

To paraphrase another poster: Do you plan to have enough investments (or ammo) to outlast your lifespan? If so, why?

Depends on the person and their goals and priorities. Everyone gets to decide for themselves what is too much or if there is even such a thing as enough. But there are practical limits. People have invested too much when investing (in ammo or whatever) negatively affects other goals to an extent that they begin to care.

But saying there's never enough isn't the same as saying it's impossible to exceed what I can afford. When I saw Federal XM193 on sale for $7.49 per box this morning, I didn't buy 1000 cases. That's a tad bit over my "gun" budget for the month. I bought 4 boxes.

When will I have enough? I can't have too much. The usefulness of my investments, whether in ammo or whatever, doesn't die when I do. I can pass that on to my family.

Does Bill Gates have too much invested? Why on earth would it be any of my business to even ask that question?

 

[Broom_jm]

Disregarding the obvious realization that ammunition is not an investment vehicle, unless it is treated like a commodity, it is only recently that so many otherwise reasonable folks would claim they "can't have too much" ammo.

I can honestly say that I've never thought of ammunition as a tangible part of my estate or heritage, though I certainly view the guns as such. Maybe it's because I've reloaded for so long now, and never felt a compulsion to hoard ammo or components, but the notion of having more than I can use in my remaining lifetime seems to be false economy. My guns are for recreational shooting and for hunting. When I need more ammo, I buy the components and make the rounds.

There are a lot of "new" shooters in the gun world; folks who have known more scarcity than plenty. I suspect that circumstance has a good deal to do with the "never enough" mentality. Having been a shooter for 35 years and a reloader for 25, I am of the opinion that "this, too, shall pass". I could be wrong, but if I am, our country will have far more to worry about. :-/

 

[WebSnyper]

Disregarding the obvious realization that ammunition is not an investment vehicle, unless it is treated like a commodity, it is only recently that so many otherwise reasonable folks would claim they "can't have too much" ammo.

I can honestly say that I've never thought of ammunition as a tangible part of my estate or heritage, though I certainly view the guns as such. Maybe it's because I've reloaded for so long now, and never felt a compulsion to hoard ammo or components, but the notion of having more than I can use in my remaining lifetime seems to be false economy. My guns are for recreational shooting and for hunting. When I need more ammo, I buy the components and make the rounds.

There are a lot of "new" shooters in the gun world; folks who have known more scarcity than plenty. I suspect that circumstance has a good deal to do with the "never enough" mentality. Having been a shooter for 35 years and a reloader for 25, I am of the opinion that "this, too, shall pass". I could be wrong, but if I am, our country will have far more to worry about. :-/

For me it also has to do with cost averaging.

Basically I generally seek to buy when the price is low and the market is soft, so I can steadily consume even when the prices are higher and the market is tighter. However, I know I don't always buy at the trough, but I try to buy at the low point and on either side of it, to protect myself from spikes in price. It is not an investment for me, but rather seeking to minimize my cost. Kind of like airlines buy jet fuel contracts. There are those that buy futures in commodities for investment purposes, but there are also those who buy futures, to lock in price for something they will actually consume. I consider myself a consumer of ammo, and seek to minimize my costs and control it.

 

[jamil]

Disregarding the obvious realization that ammunition is not an investment vehicle, unless it is treated like a commodity, it is only recently that so many otherwise reasonable folks would claim they "can't have too much" ammo.

I can honestly say that I've never thought of ammunition as a tangible part of my estate or heritage, though I certainly view the guns as such. Maybe it's because I've reloaded for so long now, and never felt a compulsion to hoard ammo or components, but the notion of having more than I can use in my remaining lifetime seems to be false economy. My guns are for recreational shooting and for hunting. When I need more ammo, I buy the components and make the rounds.

There are a lot of "new" shooters in the gun world; folks who have known more scarcity than plenty. I suspect that circumstance has a good deal to do with the "never enough" mentality. Having been a shooter for 35 years and a reloader for 25, I am of the opinion that "this, too, shall pass". I could be wrong, but if I am, our country will have far more to worry about. :-/

You know, really, I don't mind explaining my reasons for things I do as long as it's in the context of helping you satisfy your curiosity. I'm often curious about why people do some things differently from me. However, the persistence with this line of discussion seems to go beyond simple curiosity, as if you see some kind of moral attachment to the question. I don't know if you're genuinely curious, but the context looks less and less like that's the case and more and more like finger-wagging. Maybe that's not the intent, but that's how it comes off.

Why I buy ammo and how much I have really isn't a right/wrong issue for me. Maybe it is for you, but then what I do is not your concern.

 

[Hardscrable]

Disregarding the obvious realization that ammunition is not an investment vehicle, unless it is treated like a commodity, it is only recently that so many otherwise reasonable folks would claim they "can't have too much" ammo.

I can honestly say that I've never thought of ammunition as a tangible part of my estate or heritage, though I certainly view the guns as such. Maybe it's because I've reloaded for so long now, and never felt a compulsion to hoard ammo or components, but the notion of having more than I can use in my remaining lifetime seems to be false economy. My guns are for recreational shooting and for hunting. When I need more ammo, I buy the components and make the rounds.

There are a lot of "new" shooters in the gun world; folks who have known more scarcity than plenty. I suspect that circumstance has a good deal to do with the "never enough" mentality. Having been a shooter for 35 years and a reloader for 25, I am of the opinion that "this, too, shall pass". I could be wrong, but if I am, our country will have far more to worry about. :-/

I also do not consider ammo, components, etc. as an investment "vehicle" in the normal sense. It is not meant to provide for me as other investments are (financially). I consider it as an investment towards the goal of being able to enjoy my hobby uninterrupted as long as I chose to pursue that hobby. I shoot competitively & thus thousands of rounds per year. I do not want to "need" to buy ammo/components during times such as last year...not available or available only at scalper prices. If golf ball supply, price, etc worked as ammo has the last few years, would passionate golfers have inventory or just stop & buy a few balls every time they were headed to play a round ?

I also do not consider ammo/components a tangible part of my estate or legacy. Whatever is left after I pass will be gladly purchased by members of my gun club at a fair price. I do not consider obtaining more inventory of something I use regularly as hoarding. Cost averaging, buying at normal prices when available I consider to be smart. I have not always shot as much as I do now but have been shooting at one level or another for many decades. I always kept inventory though not to the extent as I do now. I shoot much more now and also never experienced supply problems before as there have been in recent years. I lack your confidence that whenever I need more of something that it will be available at any price. I NEVER expected to see .22 LR unavailable so I never "stocked up" but still have several years worth on hand.

New shooters/gun owners have contributed to some extent. More shooters use more ammo. However a lot of these buy a gun and 1 or 2 boxes of ammo, go to the range once, go home & put in drawer, & then never shoot again. Competition shooting is more popular than ever & these shooters use a fair amount. Under normal times, manufacturers see these trends & adjust accordingly. The knee jerk reactions to 2008 election, mass shootings, etc are not normal. What the future holds we do not know. If I have to guess, I would guess that we have not seen the end of these. With each "event" the "reactions" ( panic buying, hoarding, stupid laws & regulations being passed) seem to increase and also the recovery time lag back to normal conditions. I also would expect this to continue.

I don't really think we are that far apart. We want to be able to shoot and need ammo. You do not question being able to obtain what you want when you want it. I do. And if/when those bigger problems you speak of materialize, I do not intend for my cupboard to be bare. Also, none of this back and forth is meant to be an argument but merely to explain my feelings/thoughts.

 

[Broom_jm]

The title of the thread was "price of ammo".

Some new shooters/gun owners buy a gun and, instead of just 1 or 2 boxes, buy thousands, even tens of thousands of rounds.

I never expected to see 22LR unavailable, so I never stocked up. I have enough for a few months of normal shooting and will buy more as it is available. I cannot recall a time when I ever had several years worth on hand, although I can honestly say I've never stopped to calculate how much 22 ammo that would be.

IF there is a moral imperative here, and I'm honestly not claiming there is, it would be that the cost or "price" of ammo has been driven artificially higher by the demand created when heretofore average shooters decided they must have an entire lifetime's supply of ammo, and beyond...right now. In many contexts, having enough of something to last a lifetime would be considered hording. If one had enough toilet paper to last a lifetime, we would bestow the tin-hat trophy upon them, but when it's ammo, we're supposed to merely consider them "prepared".

I have enough components and loaded ammo on hand to last a while, but then again, I load for about 15 different calibers and "a few" different guns. It stands to reason that I'd have a fair amount of ammo on the shelves and in the cans, but I don't have a lifetime supply for any one cartridge or firearm. I don't even think in those terms, I guess. To each his own.

 

[Hardscrable]

The title of the thread was "price of ammo".

Some new shooters/gun owners buy a gun and, instead of just 1 or 2 boxes, buy thousands, even tens of thousands of rounds.

I never expected to see 22LR unavailable, so I never stocked up. I have enough for a few months of normal shooting and will buy more as it is available. I cannot recall a time when I ever had several years worth on hand, although I can honestly say I've never stopped to calculate how much 22 ammo that would be.

IF there is a moral imperative here, and I'm honestly not claiming there is, it would be that the cost or "price" of ammo has been driven artificially higher by the demand created when heretofore average shooters decided they must have an entire lifetime's supply of ammo, and beyond...right now. In many contexts, having enough of something to last a lifetime would be considered hording. If one had enough toilet paper to last a lifetime, we would bestow the tin-hat trophy upon them, but when it's ammo, we're supposed to merely consider them "prepared".

I have enough components and loaded ammo on hand to last a while, but then again, I load for about 15 different calibers and "a few" different guns. It stands to reason that I'd have a fair amount of ammo on the shelves and in the cans, but I don't have a lifetime supply for any one cartridge or firearm. I don't even think in those terms, I guess. To each his own.

Agree, thread has morphed from original "price" theme.

Agree, while some new shooters/gun owners buy a couple boxes, some also buy mass quantities and yes, this contributes to the situation. In 2013 our pistol league, USPSA matches, etc. experienced a dramatic drop in participants. This could be attributed in large part to shooters whose normal habit was to not have inventory on hand. Instead, on the way to a match or practice session, they would stop at Wally World and buy whatever they intended to shoot that day...no more. Many of them did not even shoot in 2013. Some have now given up on the sport and moved on to something else. Some have now been buying as much as possible whenever available to shoot this year and to build an inventory. Yes, this contributes to driving demand higher than "normal."

To me, statements regarding a lifetime supply of ammo/ components were originally somewhat meant jokingly...that is not my normal line of thinking. However at my age this could be a more truthful statement than it would have been 40 + years ago. I do not have a lifetime supply of anything but have inventory that to many would be considered excessive as such. A while back, I saw a good deal on primers that had been in short supply. There was no limit on purchase. Myself and 2 others pooled a large order splitting haz mat and shipping fees. For us, it was a normal amount ( maybe 6 months worth)...to others who shoot much less it would be considered excessive. Did we lessen the available supply for others...possibly. For us it was a wise purchase...not hoarding. I also shoot multiple calibers. Small pistol primers can be used for several so I use a lot of them. I use one powder for several so I use more of it than others. When I buy bullets, it is always in quantities of thousands other than when trying something new or to experiment. I buy quantities of things when available at a good price...not a few to last until next week. I consider this as smart buying not hoarding. I also consider it as normal.

I also never foresaw a shortage of .22LR. I have not " stocked up " on it. I will buy some when available at normal prices. Last week I saw 2 "flavors" that I regularly shoot on the shelf with no limits...I bought 2 bricks of each - not all I could thus leaving more for others. I did not "need" it but I will use it not jack up the price and try to resell. I went for about a year without buying any but I continued to shoot. I did not contribute to the feeding frenzy. I have shot less total rounds of .22 in last year and a half than what I was shooting a few years back basically just to stretch my supply in case supply does not improve. Not being able to load rim fire means relying on factory . Shots fired for practice and just goofing around have been greatly reduced or eliminated. Matches, etc. are still shot at normal level. I will continue in that manner until things improve. Thus a supply that normally would last a year could be 2 or 3 years worth at current use rate.

 

[Broom_jm]

Great dialog, guys. It's cool when grown-ups can have a discussion.

 

[Hardscrable]

Great dialog, guys. It's cool when grown-ups can have a discussion.

This ^^^. A rational discussion is too often lacking today. I have little desire to argue with someone...life is too short and my blood pressure is too high. Most times minds are already made up and not changed. One problem with online chats, emails, etc. is that quite often we tend to interpret comments differently than intended. In person discussion allows voice, facial expression, etc. to help interpret meaning/feelings. I have found quite often a little discussion finds much more common ground than differences. We can still be friends and agree to disagree on differences of opinion.

 

[jamil]

This ^^^. A rational discussion is too often lacking today. I have little desire to argue with someone...life is too short and my blood pressure is too high. Most times minds are already made up and not changed. One problem with online chats, emails, etc. is that quite often we tend to interpret comments differently than intended. In person discussion allows voice, facial expression, etc. to help interpret meaning/feelings. I have found quite often a little discussion finds much more common ground than differences. We can still be friends and agree to disagree on differences of opinion.

I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE!!!














Just kidding. Carry on.