PPD Pulled A Gun On Me Today...

[erik7941]

Man, that's nuts. Glad he wasn't a jumpy cop and just said hell with the gun and decided to tase you first. As said before, it's not really funny, but since it all went well and no shots fired or arrests made, it's pretty darn funny.

 

[j706]

Wow guys, really, I appreciate all the comments on the situation. I'm glad this hasn't escalated into a full out cop-bashing fest. I'd really rather this thread not get locked.

Either way, I decided last night that for sure, there will be no formal complaints, just a couple questions to the supervisor and hopefully a couple answers. If it gets brushed off as just another whiny citizen, Oh well I guess. Either way, I do want to ask one thing. Is it policy or proper procedure to keep a suspect at gun point like I was even after I'm down on the ground complying 110% with the officer. That's my biggest question, and really my only question.

Either way, as I've said, I understand why the LEO's did as they did and I'm pretty sure if there hadn't been a fence the gun would have been off me immediately following my "hit the dirt" maneuver.

Would you like for me to inquire for you? I could do that pretty easy and would be happy too. One thing I am sure of, there would not have been a report taken on the incident. If you can give me the exact date,time and location I can tell you as soon as I log onto my MDT tonight at around 2200 hrs. Your call sir.

 

[j706]

Man what a goofy looking pair of boots!! Are those for hog farmers or what?

 

[youngda9]

if he feels that his life is in danger. an armed suspect will certainly make him feel this way, as in the OP's case. (sorry, but until they vetted you, you were a suspect.)

Was the OP OC-ing? If not, the cops wouldn't have known that he was armed, and thus no justifiable reason do draw down on him...I didn't see mention of that in his post.

 

[SavageEagle]

Would you like for me to inquire for you? I could do that pretty easy and would be happy too. One thing I am sure of, there would not have been a report taken on the incident. If you can give me the exact date,time and location I can tell you as soon as I log onto my MDT tonight at around 2200 hrs. Your call sir.

Well, I appreciate the offer sir. I'll decline for now as I'd like to see who the Super is down there these days. If I don't get any answers at all, though, I might take you up on that.

Was the OP OC-ing? If not, the cops wouldn't have known that he was armed, and thus no justifiable reason do draw down on him...I didn't see mention of that in his post.

Most people here know I generally OC. Probably 90-95% of the time. However, yesterday I had my shirt over it in an effort to try to keep things from getting caught on it and breaking my holster. I don't think the shirt covered it too well, but the officer sure saw it right off the bat...

 

[Prometheus]

I also have had LEO pointing guns at me (as well as tazers) and I about shat myself when I turned around and saw them all standing there. so long as you keep your head and don't do anything stupid, you won't get shot.

You sure about that?
YouTube - That's So Funny -Dumbass Cop

Guns are deadly weapons and that old rule of "don't point it at someone you aren't planning on shooting" should always be followed.

As to the original gun point confrontation, I can't say.

Once SE was prone'd out, only a moron would keep the gun in anything but a low ready position. With the gun at eye level you lose quite a bit of vision.

As the video above shows, if the cop does have a ND, they shoot the ground or your leg instead of your head.

Pointing your firearm at someone should never be considered 'routine'. It's long over due for most police to re learn the "low ready" position.

 

[public servant]

I don't think you need to apologize...Regardless on which side of the fence you are on, only ignorant idiots lump all LEOs together.

I wasn't really apologizing...just sorry he found himself in that position. You know...Savage Eagle, spread eagle.

 

[public servant]

Man what a goofy looking pair of boots!! Are those for hog farmers or what?

He uses those in the sheep barn.

 

[SavageEagle]

You sure about that?
YouTube - That's So Funny -Dumbass Cop

Guns are deadly weapons and that old rule of "don't point it at someone you aren't planning on shooting" should always be followed.

As to the original gun point confrontation, I can't say.

Once SE was prone'd out, only a moron would keep the gun in anything but a low ready position. With the gun at eye level you lose quite a bit of vision.

As the video above shows, if the cop does have a ND, they shoot the ground or your leg instead of your head.

Pointing your firearm at someone should never be considered 'routine'. It's long over due for most police to re learn the "low ready" position.

That exact video was going through the front of my mind A LOT, but from what I remember, that was a fairly new officer with adrenaline pumping from a chase. That's why I was constantly speaking with the officer in a "HOLY CRAP" but, fairly calm voice. I knew he wasn't a rookie and I was hoping to de-escalate the whole situation. I just couldn't believe the gun was trained on me those 5 minutes until back up arrived.

I really agree with the last statement and is what is prompting me to speak with someone at the station tomorrow. I would have gone today, but it's sunday and if he's not there I don't want him to have to be called into the station.

I wasn't really apologizing...just sorry he found himself in that position. You know...Savage Eagle, spread eagle.

Savagely spread eagle?

 

[Benny]

No Secret here.

User Samot ruined it for everyone.

You also missed the "moon" and the "bigballs" smilies.



Real shame, that. Some of those smilies had been here since like June/July of '08... Others since the forum started. Worst part is, it was totally unnecessary.

Yeah, pretty stupid.

I just can't believe they were removed because one whiny, little girl pissed and moaned.

I will say though, it's probably best that some of them are gone...Flipping someone off or calling someone a DA isn't too much different than typing out the curse words...However, I think the "WTF" could have stayed, because I've used that acronym spelled out plenty of times without dropping the "F" bomb. Frick, frack and fudge come to mind.

You sure about that?
YouTube - That's So Funny -Dumbass Cop

Wow, I bet that is the most expensive round that department has ever seen. Luckily it was caught on tape...I'd hate to know what kind of additional charges that guy would have gotten for "resisting."

I really hope that idiot never possesses a firearm again.

 

[infidel]

He uses those in the sheep barn.

Oops. Sorry. I meant to put up a picture of the ones you like to wear.....HERE! I found them!

 

[E5RANGER375]

 

[Joe Williams]

Oops. Sorry. I meant to put up a picture of the ones you like to wear.....HERE! I found them!

Do they make those with steel toes? My job requires steel toed boots.

 

[cbop]

However, I think the "WTF" could have stayed, because I've used that acronym spelled out plenty of times without dropping the "F" bomb.

Yeah, after Monday & Tuesday, even the calender says "WTF"

 

[finity]

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. If I know I'm doing nothing wrong and then I was to have an encounter like this, I would do as told/asked and go on with my life. After all there was a fence between SE and the LEO, so his thinking may have been to use the gun as deterrent to running away. I wouldn't run if a LEO had me at gun point.

Ok so say (hypothetically) that it was OK for the cop to point the gun at you to prevent you from running. Could the cop shoot you for running away? I'd have to say "no".

Here is the law on deadly force for police:

IC 35-41-3-3
Use of force relating to arrest or escape
Sec. 3. (a) A person other than a law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force against another person to effect an arrest or prevent the other person's escape if:
(1) a felony has been committed; and
(2) there is probable cause to believe the other person committed that felony.
However, such a person is not justified in using deadly force unless that force is justified under section 2 of this chapter.
(b) A law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force if the officer reasonably believes that the force is necessary to effect a lawful arrest. However, an officer is justified in using deadly force only if the officer:
(1) has probable cause to believe that that deadly force is necessary:
(A) to prevent the commission of a forcible felony; or
(B) to effect an arrest of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person; and
(2) has given a warning, if feasible, to the person against whom the deadly force is to be used.

So, the cop CAN'T use deadly force to prevent some from just running away IN GENERAL. If he can't just shoot you because you are running away then what's the point of pointing his gun as a deterrent to running away? Besides the SCOTUS has said that "running away" isn't defacto admission of guilt.

I understand about giving up your rights, but this situation isn't a rights violation (IMHO). Sure, they could have removed the cuffs sooner, maybe even stepped inside the storage unit, but the LEOs were responding with, probably, very little info to begin with.

Exactly. That's the point. They didn't have very much info to go on. Just because someone calls in a crime doesn't mean there is a crime. If someone calls in a MWAG does that mean the cops should hold you at gun-point face down until they verify that you didn't intend to commit a crime? I think I remember a cop or two here saying that was exactly what they would do & MANY other examples of that happening.

Without some REASONABLE SUSPICION of a crime, the police can't JUST put you on the ground at gun point. Some of them may want you to think that they can but that's not right (as in the "not good" sense of the word) whether the courts agree with that or not. If we allow that to happen without a word then we deserve everything that happens to us.

Rights are very tenuous things. Sometimes they get violated or completely go away without you even realizing it until it's too late.

Just because I had a legal right to be there doesn't mean the officers knew that.

They also didn't know that you didn't have a right to be there. I hope you aren't advocating that the police can do whatever they want to you WITHOUT REASONABLE CAUSE?

Would you be OK with the cop, just driving by & seeing you unloading your own storage unit with a gun on your side, putting you on the ground at gun point? If not (& I would hope you wouldn't be OK with that) then what's the difference between that & some anonymous (or not) person calling in to say that you were commiting a crime? None. Without a little more evidence or PC the the cops shouldn't assume you are guilty of a crime.

BURGLARY CALL, GUY WITH A GUN LOADING UP A TRUCK. What's so hard to understand? They didn't run the LTCH, just the ID. And just because the officer knew me (if he did remember who I was, it's been a while) doesn't mean I couldn't have turned criminal. He doesn't know that I would never have pulled my gun on him.

So what did running your ID tell him? That you were who you said you were & that you didn't have any warrants? So? That doesn't tell him that you "couldn't have turned criminal". Did he verify that you ACTUALLY RENTED the storage unit? Unless you left that part out then it doesn't sound like it.

He didn't search me, it was a simple pant down. He never even searched my truck. He had no reason nor did he have permission. No rights were violated.

I don't know about you but I think I would much prefer the cop illegally search my vehicle than to put me on the ground with a gun to my head.

It wasn't because I was carrying a gun that I got handcuffed.

If you believe that then I've got some ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.

So are you saying that police should never cuff or hold at gun point anyone suspected of a felony, guilty or not?

No I think what most are saying is that the standard of what some cops have for the term "suspected" should be higher. At least that's what I'm saying.

It's not like they jack-booted me to the ground and what not. I was just complying and they were very polite the whole time. As messed up as that sounds.

Define "jack-booted". If you define "jack-booted" differently than them holding a loaded gun to your head to make you fearful enough for your life that you felt you had to comply then I really don't know what to say. If they had just walked up & "politely" asked you to get on the ground because they somehow "suspected" you of a crime (that you didn't commit) would you have complied so willingly or did you do it because you thought they were going to shoot you in the head if you didn't? That, my friend, IS the definition of "jack-booted".

So let me get this right. Some of you guys out there feel that if someone calls 911 and tells the police some one is breaking into a building and the officer pulls up and finds someone he is breaking their civil rights by point his firearm at them? REALLY????? I think you should thank the officer for his expedious response to a possible burglary in progress. Just my 2 cents.

So you think it's completely reasonable to point a firearm at someone for no other reason than "some" person called in & said that they "thought" someone was breaking into a STORAGE UNIT (not a person's home) when they had NO OTHER EVIDENCE of a crime other than that "some person's" call. You think that's NOT violating someone's civil rights?! To threaten them with DEATH with no other evidence whatsoever? (And unless you're just bluffing when you pointed your loaded gun at their head, that's exactly what it was) REALLY?????

You are right about the part of me not wanting to be on their list though. I fought a ticket one time in court. The officer lied about actually being there to clock me when he was not there and the judge threw out the case. I assume the officer caught a bunch of crap out of it, and i didn't mean for it to happen like that. I had an airtight case, but the officer slipped up. I ended up getting hounded by every cop in town for the next two months just waiting for me to slip up. So I know what it's like to be on their bad side.

So now we find that those particular police officers were involved in some sort of intimidation or harrassment because you showed that their buddy lied in court...to the point that you now feel uncomfortable standing up or your rights... Sounds like their tactics were successful. They showed you to fight the system, didn't they?

You on the other hand would have probably had a bigger problem judging from your earlier post where you stated that you would not have complied with the officers orders. The hardheaded, defiant I know my rights type people usually seem to have problems with their LE interactions. Their interpretation of their rights is usually quite wrong.

Just in case you missed that part in history class, this country was founded by those "hard-headed, defiant I-know-my-rights type people". I guess your interpretation of rights depends on which side you're on. The one who's doing the violating or the one who's being violated.

You also missed the "moon" and the "bigballs" smilies.



Real shame, that. Some of those smilies had been here since like June/July of '08... Others since the forum started. Worst part is, it was totally unnecessary.

I thought you guys ran the show? If you think it's a shame to get rid of something just because of 1 person then you can always tell that person to go to...umm..er...suck eggs, right?

 

[Pami]

Yeah, pretty stupid.

I just can't believe they were removed because one whiny, little girl pissed and moaned.

I thought you guys ran the show? If you think it's a shame to get rid of something just because of 1 person then you can always tell that person to go to...umm..er...suck eggs, right?

For the record, it's not because of one person.. In fact, when we first started discussing adding the filter, we talked about taking the smilies down and how we would handle other images with the filter-list words in them (the Despair, Inc. poster-wannabes, icanhascheezburger images, etc.).

Samot was just the one person who decided to take our polite request to watch his wording and not skirt the few rules we do have in place, draw a line in the sand and asked if he could cross it, and then touched his toe over the line. Repeatedly. With a steel-toed boot. Our mistake was in drawing a dotted line and saying, ok, you can play in the sandbox here. He took that liberty and then threw the sand in our faces.

We thought we were dealing with adults here. Clearly, in his case, we were wrong. This is why we cannot have nice things. Samot was the icing on the cake, and emphatically gave us a reason to remove those smilies.

How many more cheesy cliches can I add to this post?




Ryan, glad you survived this incident. And yes, every word you write is extremely scrutinized and kept for posterity so it can be brought up again in a post two years from now so you can never, ever forget what you wrote. Ever.

 

[Gpfury86]

Repped savage....

 

[Joe Williams]

snip
Ryan, glad you survived this incident. And yes, every word you write is extremely scrutinized and kept for posterity so it can be brought up again in a post two years from now so you can never, ever forget what you wrote. Ever.

Typical female.

 

[Lars]

Ryan, glad you survived this incident. And yes, every word you write is extremely scrutinized and kept for posterity so it can be brought up again in a post two years from now so you can never, ever forget what you wrote. Ever.

This.....

Still have those smoke bombs upstairs Ryan?

 

[Pami]

Typical female.

You know it. We never forget ANYthing. Ever.


And in this case, I have help from a specialized piece of electronic equipment we like to call a "server" that performs regular "backups" in case any of the typical women here were to forget.