Pointing “guns” at other people is not always inherently wrong… even outside of

cedartop

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Interesting

Today, I had a long email back & forth with a woman who was concerned about how her son was handling AIRSOFT guns.
In the convo, she asked about getting him some REAL Firearms Training. I said that would be great, I suggested she start by looking in her area for an NRA Instructor and that she take the course with her son. So far, so good… she was into it. By the way, the family lives in Illinois, a place we need all the properly educated people we can get.
Pointing ?guns? at other people is not always inherently wrong? even outside of defensive use. | I.C.E Training Journal

 

Kirk Freeman

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So, don't get his point. He wants permission to point guns at his students?

I guess if his students are cool with it. Just don't point guns at me, Captain Tactical, and all is cool.

Does telling people participating in these sports that they are violating “universal” firearms safety rules really make any sense?

Are we counting all the people that have shot others thinking that they were pointing non-firearms at people? That's a long list there, Robster.
 

Rob Pincus

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So, don't get his point. He wants permission to point guns at his students?

Kirk, you should re-read the article slowly. If you have any questions after the second (or maybe third…?) time through, let me know.

Thanks for checking it out, though.

****

And, Cedartop,Thanks much for sharing!

-RJP
 

poberly

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I read it as he thinks people are saying "don't point ANY kind of gun at people" and that includes finger guns, banana guns, and paintball guns. I think the article has some merit. I had access to firearms when I was 10, but my parents taught me about gun safety early, as well as had me in various safety courses. I also enjoyed paintball wars with my friends. I was well aware of the difference between pointing a paintball gun at someone and pointing a shotgun.
 

Kirk Freeman

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Still don't get it. We have case after case of people shooting others because they are "only" pointing airsoft guns or blue guns at others and the others end up dead. And suddenly now we want permission to point guns at people?

I don't know why some think they can break the rules and point guns at people. Charge of the 300? Everyone has to make a niche for himself? Got me.

If you want to play airsoft then ensure everyone is on the same page. If you want to play Captain Tacticalpants and run around and shoot paint pellets at each other, then ensure all on the same sheet of music.

We have plenty of examples where this does not transpire.
 

Rob Pincus

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Still don't get it. .

So, you think that everyone doing Force-on-Force Training, Playing Paintball or Airsoft and/or pointing a finger gun at someone is inherently wrong and detracting from the safety of the public at large? If so, you are exactly the person I was writing about.
If, you don't think those things, then I don't understand why you are having so much trouble understanding the point of the article.

People can't ignore the real world (which has gun type things that are designed and intended to be pointed at people) and self-righteously repeat cliches and hope people will stop having accidents. "The" rules have been around for decades and people repeating them mindlessly (i.e.: without critical thought and/or contextual application) hasn't been preventing all accidents. Teach people WHEN not to point guns at people, don't just say "never" when it clearly isn't so.

-RJP
 
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Bunnykid68

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Still don't get it. We have case after case of people shooting others because they are "only" pointing airsoft guns or blue guns at others and the others end up dead. And suddenly now we want permission to point guns at people?

I don't know why some think they can break the rules and point guns at people. Charge of the 300? Everyone has to make a niche for himself? Got me.

If you want to play airsoft then ensure everyone is on the same page. If you want to play Captain Tacticalpants and run around and shoot paint pellets at each other, then ensure all on the same sheet of music.

We have plenty of examples where this does not transpire.

How does one get shot with a blue gun?
 

SubUrbanCamo317

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Still don't get it. We have case after case of people shooting others because they are "only" pointing airsoft guns or blue guns at others and the others end up dead. And suddenly now we want permission to point guns at people?

I don't know why some think they can break the rules and point guns at people. Charge of the 300? Everyone has to make a niche for himself? Got me.

If you want to play airsoft then ensure everyone is on the same page. If you want to play Captain Tacticalpants and run around and shoot paint pellets at each other, then ensure all on the same sheet of music.

We have plenty of examples where this does not transpire.

I think what the article is getting at is saying that there are far too many people going above and beyond safety rules. They are making it extreme, and by that I mean safty Nazi's on youtube and how they leave comments about how the gun handling was practiced and so on and so on. I'll be the first to admit this, When i am home alone cleaning my guns, training with my guns, ect. I dont follow the muzzle rules. When I am by myself the only rule I practice is the trigger finger. When I am around others, Im kind of a safety nazi. Im very aware of where a gun is pointed if its out of a holster, loaded or not. But the article makes me think that there are people out there that are freaking out even when the gun is clear and unloaded, while still being pointed in a safe direction, possibly while not being touched. Basically your being fearful of the weapon, and not respectful.
 

Bill B

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People can't ignore the real world (which has gun type things that are designed and intended to be pointed at people) and self-righteously repeat cliches and hope people will stop having accidents. "The" rules have been around for decades and people repeating them mindlessly (i.e.: without critical thought and/or contextual application) hasn't been preventing all accidents. Teach people WHEN not to point guns at people, don't just say "never" when it clearly isn't so.

-RJP
How dare you swear at us?:)
 

SubUrbanCamo317

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^^^
This is why we are having this discussion...

I understand that, but I'm not foolish enough to have ammo near me when I maintain/modify my firearms. Im trying to show the point that we all do it and I will admit that I do it. Admission of guilt is the first step to recovery. When Im home alone I know there will not be any interference in my rhythm and no one to harm. I am bold enough to look down the barrel in this situation. Ooops. Oh well. It's suppose to be a PERSONAL safety thing if your alone. Its a RESPONSIBILITY when others are near. Key word is I am at home, ALONE. I am well aware of the possibilities that could happen, we all should be.
 

Kirk Freeman

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Yup.

Sometimes it is airsoft: http://www.jconline.com/article/20090910/NEWS03/909100327/1001/NEWS

Sometimes police go to prison thinking it is a paint pistol that they have in their hand: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...cing-20131216_1_raymond-gray-live-weapon-kern

It is habituation. If one is in the habit of pointing non-guns at people then one can point a real gun.

It's a bad habit that is good to break. If you want to play games, if you want to run about and shoot paint pellets at each other, be darn clear about what you are doing and everyone else knows what they are doing.
 

88GT

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link requires payment to read more than the first three sentences. And those certainly don't make your point. Do you have another source?

Sometimes police go to prison thinking it is a paint pistol that they have in their hand: Baltimore police training shooting leads to 60 days in prison for officer William S. Kern - Baltimore Sun
The failure count started long before the man was shot.

It is habituation. If one is in the habit of pointing non-guns at people then one can point a real gun.
Nonsense. We have dart gun wars in my house all the time. None of us have become so dulled in our senses that we suddenly think it's okay to point a real firearm at anybody.

It's a bad habit that is good to break. If you want to play games, if you want to run about and shoot paint pellets at each other, be darn clear about what you are doing and everyone else knows what they are doing.
Which is it, Kirk? Always bad or acceptable in context with appropriate safety measures taken?
 
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