Pence heckled. Called a traitor

[1DOWN4UP]

I think a lot of people have forgot how many Senate and House seats would also have been in question because of the irregularities.

 

[thompal]

We will not see a Republican President in 2024, too busy kicking each other in the groin.

I don't know about that. The Democrats may run Harris, and not even Democrats will vote for her, which is why she dropped out of the race when she wasn't even in the top five of candidates in her own state.

 

[Ingomike]

I think a lot of people have forgot how many Senate and House seats would also have been in question because of the irregularities.

And worst of all, John James of Michigan was going to be a black conservative in the senate for all to see. He had similar winning numbers to Trump when Michigan quit counting, but really didn't...

 

[Denny347]

I am trying to educate myself in the details of an election dispute. So, is the issue that Pence didn't call for objections as prescribed in 3 U.S. Code 15? "Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified." https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15

 

[Leo]

I have no way to know if this was right, but I wonder if he
"took one for the team"

If he did refuse to certify the votes, wouldn't nancy pelosi be in complete control for 100 days. I cannot believe ANYTHING correct would be done vote wise for that term, and who knows what other damage she would do?

I am still holding on to the lesser of two evils possibility.

That would have to be clearly explained before I would consider him again.

 

[yote hunter]

I’m not a politician so I ask this cause I don’t know the answer , but everyone is pissed at pence !
Could or did he have the sole power to change/challenge the outcome of Bidiot becoming president ?

 

[yote hunter]

I’m not a politician so I ask this cause I don’t know the answer , but everyone is pissed at pence !
Could or did he have the sole power to change/challenge the outcome of Bidiot becoming president ?

If he did and didn’t do something then shame on him !
But I’m not sure he could of solely ?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I’m not a politician so I ask this cause I don’t know the answer , but everyone is pissed at pence !
Could or did he have the sole power to change/challenge the outcome of Bidiot becoming president ?

No.

 

[yote hunter]

I’m not a politician so I ask this cause I don’t know the answer , but everyone is pissed at pence !
Could or did he have the sole power to change/challenge the outcome of Bidiot becoming president ?

I know Trump acted like he could , but not sure that he had the power to !?

 

[yote hunter]

I’m not a politician so I ask this cause I don’t know the answer , but everyone is pissed at pence !
Could or did he have the sole power to change/challenge the outcome of Bidiot becoming president ?

If he could can someone please explain to me how he had the power to stop it .

 

[hopper68]

We are all sure something fishy happened last election and we sit around pointing the blame finger instead of trying to find ways to prevent it from happening again.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I am trying to educate myself in the details of an election dispute. So, is the issue that Pence didn't call for objections as prescribed in 3 U.S. Code 15? "Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified." https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15

1. This does not supersede the Constitution.
2. Pence's solution, i.e., disregarding and excluding the delegations sent by the legislatures, would appear to be a violation of this particular law

 

[IndyDave1776]

If he could can someone please explain to me how he had the power to stop it .

Without his choosing to go with the secretaries of state from the 7 states with more than one delegation, the election would have gone to the congress to resolve a sub-270 vote

 

[Kutnupe14]

1. This does not supersede the Constitution.
2. Pence's solution, i.e., disregarding and excluding the delegations sent by the legislatures, would appear to be a violation of this particular law

2000 election. So, by my understanding of your post. Al Gore, the Democrat presidential candidate, and then sitting VP, could’ve rejected the Florida certification? If so, why didn’t he do so, and why isn’t he thought of as a traitor in the same vein that Pence is? What prevented him from doing exactly what Republicans (some), are giving Pence grief over not doing?

 

[Libertarian01]

I have no way to know if this was right, but I wonder if he
"took one for the team"

If he did refuse to certify the votes, wouldn't nancy pelosi be in complete control for 100 days. I cannot believe ANYTHING correct would be done vote wise for that term, and who knows what other damage she would do?

I am still holding on to the lesser of two evils possibility.

That would have to be clearly explained before I would consider him again.

I also am not a Constitutional lawyer, but the thing is, NO MATTER WHAT - Trump wasn't going to be President on Jan 21st. The system is clear, you need 270 electoral votes to become president. Even IF Biden did not have it, neither did Trump.

So if I recall correctly it would go to the Speaker of the House - on that day. They would be acting President until sworn in as the full President, until there was another election. Trump still would not be president any more, unless and until there was found sufficient evidence that would hold up in a court of law that he did get the number of votes required.

As I understand it the VP's role is entirely ceremonial at the stage they were at. It holds no real authority or weight of law. He or she presides over the ceremony, then every one gets to go out, get drunk, have sex, and celebrate their victory.

It's very sad that this lack of trust in the system has escalated to the level it has. The media is much to blame by cherry-picking stories and not being as objective as they can. I just watched a movie that covered the Boston Globes story of the massive Catholic Church conspiracy to hide pedophile priests. The title is "Conspiracy" from 2015. The reality is that the Boston Globe had received multiple leads and complaints before the new guy, Marty Baron (play by Liev Schreiber) took over. Perhaps it was because he wasn't from Boston or perhaps because he wasn't Catholic, but he pushed Keaton's character to follow up on a lead. Why those before Baron didn't take the story seriously is what astounds me. This is how the media screws things up. It was GREAT that he was there and able to push the story and did it, but for years it wasn't taken seriously. This undermines the medias credibility.

Regards,

Doug

 

[IndyDave1776]

2000 election. So, by my understanding of your post. Al Gore, the Democrat presidential candidate, and then sitting VP, could’ve rejected the Florida certification? If so, why didn’t he do so, and why isn’t he thought of as a traitor in the same vein that Pence is? What prevented him from doing exactly what Republicans (some), are giving Pence grief over not doing?

There was nothing for Gore to work with. First, the Florida election, the only state under controversy, had been resolved before that point. There were no states (including but not limited to Florida) sending multiple delegations of electors.

In the 2020 election, 7 states sent two sets of electors each, one certified by the secretary of state in each case and the other by the legislature. The Constitution delegates authority over presidential elections to the state legislatures. Pence was not in a position that allowed for making no decision, and he chose the SoS delegations and rejected the legislatures' delegations. An apparently sound argument could be made for accepting the delegations authorized by the legislatures although I believe the most correct response would be rejecting all pairs of conflicting delegations, therefore sending the issue to Congress.

Gore, by contrast, had no such issue to resolve.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I also am not a Constitutional lawyer, but the thing is, NO MATTER WHAT - Trump wasn't going to be President on Jan 21st. The system is clear, you need 270 electoral votes to become president. Even IF Biden did not have it, neither did Trump.

So if I recall correctly it would go to the Speaker of the House - on that day. They would be acting President until sworn in as the full President, until there was another election. Trump still would not be president any more, unless and until there was found sufficient evidence that would hold up in a court of law that he did get the number of votes required.

As I understand it the VP's role is entirely ceremonial at the stage they were at. It holds no real authority or weight of law. He or she presides over the ceremony, then every one gets to go out, get drunk, have sex, and celebrate their victory.

It's very sad that this lack of trust in the system has escalated to the level it has. The media is much to blame by cherry-picking stories and not being as objective as they can. I just watched a movie that covered the Boston Globes story of the massive Catholic Church conspiracy to hide pedophile priests. The title is "Conspiracy" from 2015. The reality is that the Boston Globe had received multiple leads and complaints before the new guy, Marty Baron (play by Liev Schreiber) took over. Perhaps it was because he wasn't from Boston or perhaps because he wasn't Catholic, but he pushed Keaton's character to follow up on a lead. Why those before Baron didn't take the story seriously is what astounds me. This is how the media screws things up. It was GREAT that he was there and able to push the story and did it, but for years it wasn't taken seriously. This undermines the medias credibility.

Regards,

Doug

In the event of no candidate reaching 270 electoral votes, the election would have been determined in the House of Representatives, which presumably could have managed a vote inside of two weeks.

 

[Kutnupe14]

There was nothing for Gore to work with. First, the Florida election, the only state under controversy, had been resolved before that point. There were no states (including but not limited to Florida) sending multiple delegations of electors.

In the 2020 election, 7 states sent two sets of electors each, one certified by the secretary of state in each case and the other by the legislature. The Constitution delegates authority over presidential elections to the state legislatures. Pence was not in a position that allowed for making no decision, and he chose the SoS delegations and rejected the legislatures' delegations. An apparently sound argument could be made for accepting the delegations authorized by the legislatures although I believe the most correct response would be rejecting all pairs of conflicting delegations, therefore sending the issue to Congress.

Gore, by contrast, had no such issue to resolve.

You say resolved, because Gore didn’t complain like Trump did. There were plenty of issues to contest concerning the state. Florida’s two separate houses, were party split, but the Florida Supreme Court was held by Democrats. If the VP has the power to simply reject the certified results sent from a state, then Gore would been on solid footing to do the same. The VP simply does not have that power.

 

[Libertarian01]

In the event of no candidate reaching 270 electoral votes, the election would have been determined in the House of Representatives, which presumably could have managed a vote inside of two weeks.

Thank you for reminding me and clarifying.

- Doug

 

[Ingomike]

I’m not a politician so I ask this cause I don’t know the answer , but everyone is pissed at pence !
Could or did he have the sole power to change/challenge the outcome of Bidiot becoming president ?

No, he could not. However, he had the position to begin a series of events by not accepting the competing slates of electors and forcing the system to deal with it.

Another way to ask your question is "Could or did he have the sole power to accept the outcome of Bidiot becoming president?"

The answer is yes he could, and did...