Pence heckled. Called a traitor

[bwframe]

Pence could be a good swamp scout in the next administration. Certainly not pres or vp though.

He has shown that he'll take orders.

 

[IndyDave1776]

His faith is a joke? You need to be careful condemning or judging someone`s faith.

He did throw faith under the bus big time with that.

 

[DadSmith]

No I don't, he has the right to believe whatever he believes, I do too. I've had Christians told me Pence is not a real Christian, everybody is judging.

The good book says ye shall know them by their fruits. So I guess in a way that gives us a right to do some judgment.

 

[Denny347]

The Democrat Party likes to eat their own and one of the reasons Trump was elected. The Republican Party is looking to follow suite and will shoot themselves in the foot come Presidential election time if these Party purity tests don't relax.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The Democrat Party likes to eat their own and one of the reasons Trump was elected. The Republican Party is looking to follow suite and will shoot themselves in the foot come Presidential election time if these Party purity tests don't relax.

I see your point, but also see that if we put ersatz Democrats in office we have defeated the purpose without any "help" from the Democrats.

 

[Denny347]

I see your point, but also see that if we put ersatz Democrats in office we have defeated the purpose without any "help" from the Democrats.

The one thing the Republican Party was masterful at was Party unity. It is it's strongest weapon against the Democrats. If they are not careful, Party in fighting will weaken them. How quickly the steadfast support for Pence on this very board has turned to venomous hatred.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The one thing the Republican Party was masterful at was Party unity. It is it's strongest weapon against the Democrats. If they are not careful, Party in fighting will weaken them. How quickly the steadfast support for Pence on this very board has turned to venomous hatred.

True, but then again Pence changed dramatically in an instant.

 

[Denny347]

True, but then again Pence changed dramatically in an instant.

Did he though? People rarely, "Change dramatically in an instant." Our opinions of people can though.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Did he though? People rarely, "Change dramatically in an instant." Our opinions of people can though.

I'll split the difference and say that the person one is thought to be can change in an instant when others realize the true person is different than believed. A more extreme example would be the neighbor everyone thinks is the nicest person you will find who turns out to be an ax murderer.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Mike Pence is a good Godly man. I disliked his politics, but he has never shown me anything morally, that I would take exception to. I have every confidence Pence did what he thought was the right and legal thing. Even if he was “wrong,” I don’t think he had any ulterior motives.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I mean really, you think that the VP of the United States has the ability to disregard certified votes? Where is that in the Constitution? Pence did exactly what he was supposed to do.

 

[Tombs]

The Democrat Party likes to eat their own and one of the reasons Trump was elected. The Republican Party is looking to follow suite and will shoot themselves in the foot come Presidential election time if these Party purity tests don't relax.

It's not really a purity test when they just walk up to the plate and decide to bat for the opposing team.

At some point the voters have to say that they aren't being represented by these people and reject it. Failure to do so is why we are where we are.

For the longest time republicans have refused to have values and principles, for the sake of placating lite-democrats. Now that we're approaching critical mass on some rather serious cultural issues, like not even being able to accept that men can't give birth, it's time to stop the lite-democrat pandering. For crying out loud, even on this forum among many many DEEPLY conservative people, it's taboo now to dare talk about abortion. If that doesn't tell you that unless things change, things are going to hell fast, I don't know what will.

 

[Tombs]

True, but then again Pence changed dramatically in an instant.

He was always a neocon, the writing was on the wall.
Higher political ambitions are what happened.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The US Constitution:

Article II (Article 2 - Executive)​

Article 2, Section 1​

1. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows
2. Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

I mean really, you think that the VP of the United States has the ability to disregard certified votes? Where is that in the Constitution? Pence did exactly what he was supposed to do.

Re-read the above. Where does it say anything about being certified by anyone other than the state legislature?

 

[Denny347]

We will not see a Republican President in 2024, too busy kicking each other in the groin.

 

[DadSmith]

Trump got Penced at the end by his VP who it looks like was ready to jump ship to save what he thought was his political career, instead he destroyed it in one single moment.

His brother Greg is my Rep I've looked at his voting record and he has voted for unconstitutional laws 70% of his votes. He's another Democrat dressed up like a republican because he can't get into office as a Democrat around here. His voting record is worse than Youngs.

If you don't believe me research his voting record it's pathetic for a "conservative" more like "Rino".

 

[DadSmith]

We will not see a Republican President in 2024, too busy kicking each other in the groin.

DeSantis will run and win.

 

[NKBJ]

I figured it to be self-explanatory, but in practice it is the group of political insiders who generally have a globalist agenda and consider themselves entitled to be a standing political class who are above those they ostensibly represent and serve. This takes in members of both parties and a number of assorted individuals and organizations who do not hold government positions but exercise tremendous influence over the government through funding, ideological compatibility with the perennial office holders, and in some cases fear--a subject to which Vince Foster, Ron Brown, and Seth Rich, among others, are unavailable to speak.

Pence has set himself out from for being a supporter of and a participant in the establishment/swamp given that he handed the White House to sworn enemies of the republic in spite of the fact that he had a safe and more constitutionally sound alternative in rejecting all contested delegations, thus turning the election over to congress as prescribed.

I do agree with what you're saying, however, I really do think that the documentation available removes all doubt about there being "...a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it", the swamp being but a manifestation of it. And because I arrived at that conclusion in the summer of '76 (long before I was aware of Wilson's words) I've had the opportunity to consider and reconsider the matter, a long time to soak my thoughts and put them through many a rinse cycle. Any how, it's been interesting and I'm thankful to have been made aware.

 

[Denny347]

So I don't really understand where his actions were treasonous. Looks like it is up to both Houses to address these issues, not the VP (President of the Senate) per Electoral Control Act of 1887 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15 or the 12th Amendment where the VP basically opens and counts the votes given to him. It doesn't give any method by which to reject any votes (how and by what standard). "The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;" https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxii
Of course, like those already had admitted here, none of us are Federal election legal scholars so knowing that I don't know, I'm certainly aware that I could be wrong. Inversely, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable labeling him a traitor and all the legal connotations that come from the act of treason. But I guess many are willing to make that jump.

The US Constitution:

Article II (Article 2 - Executive)​

Article 2, Section 1​

1. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows
2. Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

We had the following States send two different delegations of electors, one certified by the secretary of state and the other by the legislature: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan (despite the Democrat governor’s fascist attempt to block it), Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Pence's excuse was essentially that such a Constitutional question is above his pay grade. In that case, the most correct decision he could have made would have been the rejection of ALL electors from States that sent two delegations. As far as I am concerned, he is just as responsible for what is happening as both Biden and the arm up Biden's ass, and, of course, the practitioners of fraud.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So I don't really understand where his actions were treasonous. Looks like it is up to both Houses to address these issues, not the VP (President of the Senate) per Electoral Control Act of 1887 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15 or the 12th Amendment where the VP basically opens and counts the votes given to him. It doesn't give any method by which to reject any votes (how and by what standard). "The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;" https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxii
Of course, like those already had admitted here, none of us are Federal election legal scholars so knowing that I don't know, I'm certainly aware that I could be wrong. Inversely, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable labeling him a traitor and all the legal connotations that come from the act of treason. But I guess many are willing to make that jump.

First, I understand the accusation of being a traitor to be figurative (i.e., disloyalty to his constituents) as opposed to treason in the legal sense.

Second, when the Constitution says a plain thing in a plain way, I see no room for argument.