New Holosun pistol red dot - Holosun 507C ACSS Vulcan reticle

[gregkl]

Wish there were a single Holosun with the ability to switch between the reticle options (Dot, Dot plus 32 MOA circle, chevron, etc). That would be super nice. Wonder if there are technical reasons for not offering that, or if it purely marketing?

I'm no engineer so I don't know how hard or how much it would cost to have all of those items in one dot. You can, on some models utilize 3 different modes.

For me, I have to ask myself; is stuff like this continuous improvement, solutions for common problems users are having or marketing to differentiate one product from another?

I have only been using red dots since this past fall but I have become a dedicated study of all things red dot related. I finally had a range session last week where I was faster with the red dot than my irons so I am making progress, slow, but forward progress nonetheless.

Short story long, focus on the fundamentals; it's not necessarily about the dot but focusing on the target, having the dot project onto it, "seeing through the dot" and pulling the trigger.

It's great that manufacturers are coming out with so many options. Don't get hung up on what to do. In the end, a clear, round dot will get the job done if you put in the reps.

 

[dudley0]

I am really interested in moving towards a red dot on my EDC. I have a few 1.0 versions but carry a 2.0 version. M&P 9. I hate the idea of getting one slide set up and then it won't work on my 2.0 frame.

No way I am going to go all in and not have something to fall back on tho. Too much training involved before I would feel comfy about carrying it all the time.

 

[gregkl]

I am really interested in moving towards a red dot on my EDC. I have a few 1.0 versions but carry a 2.0 version. M&P 9. I hate the idea of getting one slide set up and then it won't work on my 2.0 frame.

No way I am going to go all in and not have something to fall back on tho. Too much training involved before I would feel comfy about carrying it all the time.

I had my 2.0 Compact slide milled for a RMR and had them mill in a rear sight. Due to the design of the M&P slide, they made a Glock cut for the rear sight.

I can buy a cover plate from them if I ever wanted to return it to iron sights. Remove the dot, screw on the cover plate, put my non-suppressor height sights back on and I'm virtually back to factory.

Something to think about for your situation.

 

[MCgrease08]

I am really interested in moving towards a red dot on my EDC. I have a few 1.0 versions but carry a 2.0 version. M&P 9. I hate the idea of getting one slide set up and then it won't work on my 2.0 frame.

No way I am going to go all in and not have something to fall back on tho. Too much training involved before I would feel comfy about carrying it all the time.

I actually purchased a backup VP9 while my slide was off getting milled just in case I ended up hating the dot. I think everyone needs a duplicate of their carry gun anyway, so it's not like I hadn't already been looking for one or did it just because of the dot.

But so far, after about 200+ rounds with the dot, I like the set up a lot. There were many more positives and encouraging moments shooting with it than there were frustrating moments.

I will say, after zeroing at 25 yards, making hits from 50 yards and longer was pretty easy. I was easily hitting a torso steel target while standing at 70-80 yards. I was hitting 7 or 8 out of 10 shots at 100 yards while seated using a sand bag rest. With irons, I'm generally more like 2 out of 10 at that distance.

So far, what I'm still trying to work out is where the point of impact is and which part of the Chevron I should be using for anything under 25 yards. At certain times I was easily hitting 6" steel plates at 10 yards with the tip of the Chevron centered on the plate, other times I was off, either high or low. I suspect that has more to do with poor grip or trigger press than the reticle itself, but I do think the Chevron adds more complexity in up close shooting than a standard dot would. In a self-defense situation it's not going to matter, but for precision shots, I need to understand the sight picture better.

I really need to just spend time at close up distances getting to know POA vs POI and walking it back to the 25 yard mark so I can learn where my holds need to be.

All in all, I was encouraged. It wasn't a ton of rounds of practice, but I did not leave the range frustrated and cursing.

 

[dudley0]

I had my 2.0 Compact slide milled for a RMR and had them mill in a rear sight. Due to the design of the M&P slide, they made a Glock cut for the rear sight.

I can buy a cover plate from them if I ever wanted to return it to iron sights. Remove the dot, screw on the cover plate, put my non-suppressor height sights back on and I'm virtually back to factory.

Something to think about for your situation.

That's the rub. I carry a 2.0 FS. My back-ups are 1.0 FS. I do not think the slides are interchangeable. If I spend the money to have a 1.0 slide milled to test then I have to do it all over again for the 2.0.

Maybe that is what I should do anyhow. Can convert the 1.0 back to semi-original once I decide I like and can use the dot. I don't want to have two dot set-ups just yet. Lots-O-Money sitting.

I do have a 2.0c but will most likely be selling it as the tradeoff isn't worth it to me and the spouse decided that the shield is a better fit for her.

 

[dudley0]

I actually purchased a backup VP9 while my slide was off getting milled just in case I ended up hating the dot. I think everyone needs a duplicate of their carry gun anyway, so it's not like I hadn't already been looking for one or did it just because of the dot.

But so far, after about 200+ rounds with the dot, I like the set up a lot. There were many more positives and encouraging moments shooting with it than there were frustrating moments.

I will say, after zeroing at 25 yards, making hits from 50 yards and longer was pretty easy. I was easily hitting a torso steel target while standing at 70-80 yards. I was hitting 7 or 8 out of 10 shots at 100 yards while seated using a sand bag rest. With irons, I'm generally more like 2 out of 10 at that distance.

So far, what I'm still trying to work out is where the point of impact is and which part of the Chevron I should be using for anything under 25 yards. At certain times I was easily hitting 6" steel plates at 10 yards with the tip of the Chevron centered on the plate, other times I was off, either high or low. I suspect that has more to do with poor grip or trigger press than the reticle itself, but I do think the Chevron adds more complexity in up close shooting than a standard dot would. In a self-defense situation it's not going to matter, but for precision shots, I need to understand the sight picture better.

I really need to just spend time at close up distances getting to know POA vs POI and walking it back to the 25 yard mark so I can learn where my holds need to be.

All in all, I was encouraged. It wasn't a ton of rounds of practice, but I did not leave the range frustrated and cursing.

I already have the back-ups just not the same revision.

Very good info on your shooting. Makes me want to move forward even more, especially since my eyes were corrected with lasik and I can't front sight focus for crap. Being able to look at the target on purpose would be a nice change.

 

[gregkl]

That's the rub. I carry a 2.0 FS. My back-ups are 1.0 FS. I do not think the slides are interchangeable. If I spend the money to have a 1.0 slide milled to test then I have to do it all over again for the 2.0.

Maybe that is what I should do anyhow. Can convert the 1.0 back to semi-original once I decide I like and can use the dot. I don't want to have two dot set-ups just yet. Lots-O-Money sitting.

I do have a 2.0c but will most likely be selling it as the tradeoff isn't worth it to me and the spouse decided that the shield is a better fit for her.

According to DP Custom Works where I had my slide milled, you can convert it back. Anyone that has enough ability to mill your slide should be able to produce a cover plate too.

 

[MCgrease08]

A quick update. After posting earlier today about needing to spend some time to determine POA at closer distances, it's all I could think about. So I snuck away from working from home over lunch to get in a quick range session.

Again, with the tip of the Chevron zeroed at 25 yards the variations in impact at 3/5/7/10/15 yards is negligible. There was a shift down in groups of maybe half an inch, but when shooting off a sandbag, hits were going pretty much right where I was aiming.

Of course shooting while standing with a 20-25 mph crosswind is another story, but the big swings in POI I was seeing on my first trip was definitely more about my technique (grip, sight picture, trigger press) than it was about any type of bullet drop or need to use a hold over.

All in all I left the range feeling very good about things.

 

[MCgrease08]

Federal has a ballistics calculator that let's you plug in your load data and optic information and it spits out some pretty handy info. I wish I would have looked this up before hitting the range, but it mirrors what I found out from shooting.

This shows the bullet impact of 124 gr Federal HST at various distances using a 25 yd zero. Essentially the height over bore distance is 0.9" and the bullet rises until meeting the aiming point and staying flat from 20 - 30 yards.

At 50 yards it's back to 0.9" low and keeps dropping until POI is 8.7" low at 100 yards.

I also did this using 115gr fmj, but the numbers were almost identical. There were some differences of 0.1" at a handful of distances, but not enough to warrant writing it down.

 

[dudley0]

OK, so I realize I am very late to this game, but does anyone have these in stock?

Have to decide if I want to drag out my back up v1.0 M&P so I can send the v2.0 in to get cut and then pull another v1.0 to use as my back-up until I get it back.

When you guys had the slides milled did they install the sights or did you do that after? I need to get some sights as well either way.

Speaking of the irons, does having a colored front distract from watching the dot? I have I-Dot pros on right now with orange outlining the dot.

 

[gregkl]

OK, so I realize I am very late to this game, but does anyone have these in stock?

Have to decide if I want to drag out my back up v1.0 M&P so I can send the v2.0 in to get cut and then pull another v1.0 to use as my back-up until I get it back.

When you guys had the slides milled did they install the sights or did you do that after? I need to get some sights as well either way.

Speaking of the irons, does having a colored front distract from watching the dot? I have I-Dot pros on right now with orange outlining the dot.

Not sure if anyone has them right now.

They installed the dot and the iron sights in mine. I can't answer to colored front sights since I had them install black sights both front and back in mine since I had to go to suppressor height sights. I really don't see them at all unless I'm not doing it right, lol.

I could see an orange or red front sight being a potential distraction.

 

[gregkl]

Federal has a ballistics calculator that let's you plug in your load data and optic information and it spits out some pretty handy info. I wish I would have looked this up before hitting the range, but it mirrors what I found out from shooting.

This shows the bullet impact of 124 gr Federal HST at various distances using a 25 yd zero. Essentially the height over bore distance is 0.9" and the bullet rises until meeting the aiming point and staying flat from 20 - 30 yards.

At 50 yards it's back to 0.9" low and keeps dropping until POI is 8.7" low at 100 yards.

I also did this using 115gr fmj, but the numbers were almost identical. There were some differences of 0.1" at a handful of distances, but not enough to warrant writing it down.

View attachment 129964

I'm trying to figure out how this works. I tried the calculator but it didn't seem to work for me. I just had hash marks in the drop column. I'm sure it is user error.

Looking at your sheet above, I see a 0.0 for 20-30 yards and then beyond that the bullet starts to drop. But I also see bullet drop from 15 down to 0 yards. Or should that be + or bullet rise?

 

[tsm]

I'm trying to figure out how this works. I tried the calculator but it didn't seem to work for me. I just had hash marks in the drop column. I'm sure it is user error.

Looking at your sheet above, I see a 0.0 for 20-30 yards and then beyond that the bullet starts to drop. But I also see bullet drop from 15 down to 0 yards. Or should that be + or bullet rise?

Because the bore is below the los, the bullet starts out below the los, rises until it meets the los at 25yds, and then starts dropping again. The signs are correct.

 

[MCgrease08]

I don't know if anyone has them in stock. I ordered directly from Primary Arms and it was pre-order type deal. Kenzie Optics(?) had some in stock back in January. No idea about now.

Primary Machine did my slide milling and they installed the suppressor height backup sights for me for an extra $70 I believe. I really like the blacked out sights personally. I would not run a colored dot on on the front sight post because I do feel like it would be too busy or confusing. But I have no frame of reference for that, just my hunch. I think it would be less of an issue with the Chevron style of the Vulcan versus having a traditional red dot.

Here's my best effort at capturing the sight picture one handed using a cell phone. It's hard to get anything with the dot on that resembles what you see with the human eye, but at least your can see what the irons look like.

 

[tsm]

I don't know if anyone has them in stock. I ordered directly from Primary Arms and it was pre-order type deal. Kenzie Optics(?) had some in stock back in January. No idea about now.

Primary Machine did my slide milling and they installed the suppressor height backup sights for me for an extra $70 I believe. I really like the blacked out sights personally. I would not run a colored dot on on the front sight post because I do feel like it would be too busy or confusing. But I have no frame of reference for that, just my hunch. I think it would be less of an issue with the Chevron style of the Vulcan versus having a traditional red dot.

Here's my best effort at capturing the sight picture one handed using a cell phone. It's hard to get anything with the dot on that resembles what you see with the human eye, but at least your can see what the irons look like.

Good pics. Is the red dot sight between the front and rear suppressor sights, or behind the rear sight? I think I’ve seen photos showing both approaches and am wondering how you did yours?

 

[MCgrease08]

Good pics. Is the red dot sight between the front and rear suppressor sights, or behind the rear sight? I think I’ve seen photos showing both approaches and am wondering how you did yours?

Optic is between front and rear site. I wanted to run it irons forward but that's tough to do, if not impossible, with the VP9 based on the internals of the slide and position of the rear sight pocket. I'm sure there is someone out there that has figured out a way to do it, but it's almost certainly more trouble than it's worth.

I was concerned that it would be distracting having the rear sight be the first thing in my line of sight, but it's a non issue. I don't notice it at all when looking through the optic at the target. Now if the irons were three dot, fiber optics or night sights with white, orange, yellow circles on them, that might be a different story.

 

[tsm]

Optic is between front and rear site. I wanted to run it irons forward but that's tough to do, if not impossible, with the VP9 based on the internals of the slide and position of the rear sight pocket. I'm sure there is someone out there that has figured out a way to do it, but it's almost certainly more trouble than it's worth.

I was concerned that it would be distracting having the rear sight be the first thing in my line of sight, but it's a non issue. I don't notice it at all when looking through the optic at the target. Now if the irons were three dot, fiber optics or night sights with white, orange, yellow circles on them, that might be a different story.

Thanks, good to know. Am thinking of doing something similar to my G19. No concerns about the red dot dying at night without any night sights backing it up?

 

[gregkl]

Thanks, good to know. Am thinking of doing something similar to my G19. No concerns about the red dot dying at night without any night sights backing it up

To each his own as far as comfort factor and redundancy along with the odds the red dot will fail. At night. When you need it most.

I haven't run night sights so for me it wouldn't be an issue.

G19 with a dot would be a great carry pistol, plus you could use it for everything else!

 

[MCgrease08]

Thanks, good to know. Am thinking of doing something similar to my G19. No concerns about the red dot dying at night without any night sights backing it up?

50,000 hour battery life + 1,000 lumen (27k candela) weapon light on the gun. No concerns at all about not having night sights.

 

[tsm]

50,000 hour battery life + 1,000 lumen (27k candela) weapon light on the gun. No concerns at all about not having night sights.

Sounds good. Based on the info above, if I have to defend myself in our house, my new concern will be if I can find my sunglasses! :-)