Minneapolis Police Shoot Unarmed Woman In Pajamas — With Bodycams Off

[HoughMade]

...To lawyers, it is a rational choice to say nothing rather than risk saying the wrong thing. Or the right thing the wrong way and having it be an issue later...

[video=youtube;5PZonyefBW4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PZonyefBW4[/video]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Seems odd, aren't police required to cooperate with IA or their equivalent? I can understanding having a lawyer or union rep present, but declining entirely seems shady.

I'll repost the relevant part of a longer answer I've previously posted:

****

I've been through the process from both the investigator and the investigated side.

The shooting officer can be compelled to give a brief "public safety" statement. This is done at the order of officer who outranks him and is not admissible in criminal trials (I believe it is in civil, though). The statement is limited to things like if there are other suspects still out, etc. Things that are an immediate impact to public safety, not why you shot or that sort of thing.

You will be compelled to give a statement to Internal Affairs. "Garrity rights" keeps this compelled statement from being used in any criminal proceedings because this is, at it's heart, a coerced statement in that if you don't give it you're fired. Your lawyer will be there, but you have to answer the questions honestly and completely, there's no "my client won't answer that" sort of thing.

Under some circumstances, the officer's attorney may be asked for the officer to answer certain questions. I've only seen this once, and when there was no witnessing officers who could be questioned instead about where people were standing, etc and the scene was pretty complex. The lead detective wanted the information (coincidentally, the same one who's investigating this one) so we did not miss any evidence in a very geographically large scene. The officer and his lawyer did a walk through with the lead and me (I was assisting investigator) and showed us where he was when he first shot, where he took cover and shot, where both suspects were originally and where they moved, etc.
*****

I have no idea what their process is, of course, but if it was local there would not be an IA interview at this point more than likely. You have to clear your first psych eval before going to IA, and then clear a second psych eval by a different provider afterward.

 

[Brickmandan]

He's a public servant payed by taxpayers. He shouldn't be able to hide behind his lawyer. Hopefully a witness will come out and tell what happened. If cops refuse to turn their cameras on then it's up to citizens to record the transactions between police and the public to make sure everything is by the book.

 

[VUPDblue]

He's a public servant payed by taxpayers. He shouldn't be able to hide behind his lawyer. Hopefully a witness will come out and tell what happened. If cops refuse to turn their cameras on then it's up to citizens to record the transactions between police and the public to make sure everything is by the book.

So he forfeits his constitutional rights because he's a government employee? Please cite where that is covered in the founding documents.

 

[Brickmandan]

So the cop shoots this lady and gets put on paid leave. How is this equal to what would happen to a person who isn't a cop if they shot this lady?

So he forfeits his constitutional rights because he's a government employee? Please cite where that is covered in the founding documents.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So he forfeits his constitutional rights because he's a government employee? Please cite where that is covered in the founding documents.

It's in the basement of the Alamo with Pee-Wee's bike.

 

[Alpo]

If "he feared for his life" is used as a defense...

 

[Brickmandan]

If a man feared for his life from an unarmed woman then he should have picked a different profession.

If "he feared for his life" is used as a defense...

 

[Brickmandan]

When your job is to enforce the laws on other people you should be held to higher standards.

So he forfeits his constitutional rights because he's a government employee? Please cite where that is covered in the founding documents.

 

[churchmouse]

When your job is to enforce the laws on other people you should be held to higher standards.

Not outside the rights we all have as citizens. Where is this coming from. Yes, standards but forfeiture of god given rights is left field thinking.
If he is wrong doing in this it will all come to light.

 

[KellyinAvon]

When your job is to enforce the laws on other people you should be held to higher standards.

Being held to higher standards is quite different from surrendering Constitutional Rights afforded to all citizens.

 

[churchmouse]

Being held to higher standards is quite different from surrendering Constitutional Rights afforded to all citizens.

Bingo.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I've never had an in car camera, so I'm the wrong person to ask. I neither know nor care how they work.

I'm not an expert, but am a major tech geek. From my understanding, MOST systems activate with the lights because nobody gives a sh** what is going on in front of the car while you are sitting eating a donut, writing a report, waiting for a speeder, etc. Its only when the lights come on that they really care. And by using that mechanism, they dont have to worry about "oops. I forgot to turn it on." And as I recall at least one system is ALWAYS recording. It just dumps x seconds of "tape" after recording if it is not needed. That way when they turn on the lights they already have a jump start with video x seconds before the lights come on in case they turned them on for what happened a few seconds prior and want the actual infraction on video. (catch a guy blowing past at double the speed limit, etc) Dont turn your lights on at all that day? ALL of your dash cam footage is dumped as fast as it is recorded to temporary space.

Why not save it all? Assuming 75 cars a day (3 25 car shifts) running video full time would be about 400gig of video a day. And that is conservative. (h.264, D1, 6k/frame, 30FPS for you geeks) That is roughly 150TB a year in storage needs. And assuming you cant just keep the prior year's runs, multiply that by however many years you need and that equals some VERY expensive storage. 6 figueres worth per year, easy. Its not as easy as running down to Best buy and throwing another $80 hard drive into the server to add more space. Even if you could, you'd be doing so every week and would run out of bays fast.

Now lets say we trigger based on lights. Assuming they spend 3 hours a day doing stuff with the blinkies going (aiming high again) thats only 121Gb/45TB (day/year) . Still not small/cheap, but more manageable. And who wants to pay to store all that boring footage that is worthless anyway?

Oh, and I'm only assuming dash cams. Add in body cams for each officer and it grows by an additional 600GB/year per officer. (based on 3 hours of video/shift)

It's in the basement of the Alamo with Pee-Wee's bike.

I got to visit the Alamo as a side outing on a business trip. It took every ounce of control to not ask a worker where the basement was. (only because they're sick of it and I'd be the only one to think it was funny)

 

[Roland of Gilead]

I'm not an expert, but am a major tech geek. From my understanding, MOST systems activate with the lights because nobody gives a sh** what is going on in front of the car while you are sitting eating a donut, writing a report, waiting for a speeder, etc. Its only when the lights come on that they really care. And by using that mechanism, they dont have to worry about "oops. I forgot to turn it on." And as I recall at least one system is ALWAYS recording. It just dumps x seconds of "tape" after recording if it is not needed. That way when they turn on the lights they already have a jump start with video x seconds before the lights come on in case they turned them on for what happened a few seconds prior and want the actual infraction on video. (catch a guy blowing past at double the speed limit, etc) Dont turn your lights on at all that day? ALL of your dash cam footage is dumped as fast as it is recorded to temporary space.

Why not save it all? Assuming 75 cars a day (3 25 car shifts) running video full time would be about 400gig of video a day. And that is conservative. (h.264, D1, 6k/frame, 30FPS for you geeks) That is roughly 150TB a year in storage needs. And assuming you cant just keep the prior year's runs, multiply that by however many years you need and that equals some VERY expensive storage. 6 figueres worth per year, easy. Its not as easy as running down to Best buy and throwing another $80 hard drive into the server to add more space. Even if you could, you'd be doing so every week and would run out of bays fast.

Now lets say we trigger based on lights. Assuming they spend 3 hours a day doing stuff with the blinkies going (aiming high again) thats only 121Gb/45TB (day/year) . Still not small/cheap, but more manageable. And who wants to pay to store all that boring footage that is worthless anyway?

Oh, and I'm only assuming dash cams. Add in body cams for each officer and it grows by an additional 600GB/year per officer. (based on 3 hours of video/shift)



I got to visit the Alamo as a side outing on a business trip. It took every ounce of control to not ask a worker where the basement was. (only because they're sick of it and I'd be the only one to think it was funny)

I seen cops on the hunt a few times with no lights what so ever at night. Just the glow of a laptop.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Coonfingering ?????

Careful...

Yes, be careful. It's like Beetlejuice. If you say that word 3 times on INGO, Kirk Freeman appears.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So the cop shoots this lady and gets put on paid leave. How is this equal to what would happen to a person who isn't a cop if they shot this lady?

There's a civilian-on-civilian fatal shooting being investigated in my county right now where one party was unarmed. The shooter has claimed self defense and is walking free pending forensics to confirm or deny. I won't say anything else in a public format other than its...certainly not clear it's a good shoot.

This one made the news awhile back: Murder suspect arrested after shooting over dog dispute | Fox 59

Guy was released until a murder charge was decided upon 6 days after the shooting.

Do you think non-LEO instantly go to jail when they shoot someone? Or do you think murder investigations are done instantly? Or do you think that because someone is not arrested while the investigation is ongoing that they never will be?

 

[Brickmandan]

I don't think any of that. What I do know is that a civilian that is not a cop doesn't get a tax payer funded vacation.

There's a civilian-on-civilian fatal shooting being investigated in my county right now where one party was unarmed. The shooter has claimed self defense and is walking free pending forensics to confirm or deny. I won't say anything else in a public format other than its...certainly not clear it's a good shoot.

This one made the news awhile back: Murder suspect arrested after shooting over dog dispute | Fox 59

Guy was released until a murder charge was decided upon 6 days after the shooting.

Do you think non-LEO instantly go to jail when they shoot someone? Or do you think murder investigations are done instantly? Or do you think that because someone is not arrested while the investigation is ongoing that they never will be?

 

[BobDaniels]

I don't think any of that. What I do know is that a civilian that is not a cop doesn't get a tax payer funded vacation.

collective bargaining

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

I don't think any of that. What I do know is that a civilian that is not a cop doesn't get a tax payer funded vacation.

A cop doesn't get a tax payer funded vacation, he gets to continue to draw a salary since, in many cases, their only income is the job. Is it fair for a cop to go bankrupt or for his family not to have any income while they wait for the investigation to be over? I see the optics of this and how it is perceived but put yourself in their shoes, how do they feed their families while they wait? Civilians can keep working while they wait.

 

[actaeon277]

Cool story bro.
So your job entails stopping drunk and or violent people from doing what they want, and often retaliate by accusing you of crimes?