Minneapolis Police Shoot Unarmed Woman In Pajamas — With Bodycams Off

[Benp]

It gives me pause about seeing a police officer in a car and attempting to approach the car for whatever reason.

 

[SSGSAD]

Is it normal police procedure to ride around in a squad car with your firearm unholstered? When rolling up on/stopped at the scene, as we have had it described to us in this incident, is it normal for an officer to have his gun out of the holster?

POST 153 .....

 

[Kutnupe14]

The fact that the firearm was pointed at her in the first place is very odd. Having a hand on the firearm while it's holstered, yes.
How long was this conversation between the woman and the police officers? Or did she run up to their car, bang on the window, and got shot because of it?

I think you have asked the right questions. I too have wondered about this.

 

[Benp]

For the LEOs out there, how would you prefer someone approach your car if you are sitting in it somewhere. Should people not approach? Should they approach with arms raised above their heads?

 

[Kutnupe14]

For the LEOs out there, how would you prefer someone approach your car if you are sitting in it somewhere. Should people not approach? Should they approach with arms raised above their heads?

My preference was that the person approach from the front, so I could see them. If I could see them approaching, I'm going to exit the vehicle and meet them. No way I'd allow a stranger to walk up to a car I was seated in (given that this was an active call).

 

[T.Lex]

The people in the back of the class not so much .....

So training is what YOU make of it .....

YOU get out of it, what YOU put into it ....

I don't necessarily disagree, but that - given the similarity of issues over a long period of time - raises the issue of recruitment/retention policies that allow the wrong officers to get hired and stay hired. And, to try to be clear, this isn't about number of complaints/discipline (although, that can be part of the symptoms) it is more about the internal dynamic of officers who expect things to be done correctly mentoring new officers to do things that way. Not just policies-procedures "right" but the professionally "right" way to be professional.

Is it "right" to have an unholstered pistol when arriving on the scene of a reported rape in progress (assuming that to be true in this case)? I'll give the officer the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Shooting at a basically random non-threatening person upon hearing fireworks? That's not professional. And, its probably some variation of criminal.

 

[SSGSAD]

I don't necessarily disagree, but that - given the similarity of issues over a long period of time - raises the issue of recruitment/retention policies that allow the wrong officers to get hired and stay hired. And, to try to be clear, this isn't about number of complaints/discipline (although, that can be part of the symptoms) it is more about the internal dynamic of officers who expect things to be done correctly mentoring new officers to do things that way. Not just policies-procedures "right" but the professionally "right" way to be professional.

Is it "right" to have an unholstered pistol when arriving on the scene of a reported rape in progress (assuming that to be true in this case)? I'll give the officer the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Shooting at a basically random non-threatening person upon hearing fireworks? That's not professional. And, its probably some variation of criminal.

I agree, 100% ..... When IMPD is hiring, LEO, have

admitted things, that I suspected, but didn't have proof of .....

(hiring policies) .....

 

[Benp]

My preference was that the person approach from the front, so I could see them. If I could see them approaching, I'm going to exit the vehicle and meet them. No way I'd allow a stranger to walk up to a car I was seated in (given that this was an active call).

Good to know!
The rest of us don't know when someone is on an active call or not. Perhaps the police could have a little light on the top of the car to let people know they are working and not to be bothered
I don't ever approach an officer in a car because I don't know if they are actively doing something or not. And if you're trying to peak into a police car to see if they are busy that seems pretty creepy, so I don't do that either. So I don't do anything, but I appreciate their service, they just don't know it.

 

[HoughMade]

Coonfingering ?????

Careful...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Careful...

SSG's not the type.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Good to know!
The rest of us don't know when someone is on an active call or not. Perhaps the police could have a little light on the top of the car to let people know they are working and not to be bothered
I don't ever approach an officer in a car because I don't know if they are actively doing something or not. And if you're trying to peak into a police car to see if they are busy that seems pretty creepy, so I don't do that either. So I don't do anything, but I appreciate their service, they just don't know it.

Well, lights are on during a perimeter... but in this case if the lights aren't on, it's still pretty dumb, that late at hight to approach a police car from the side, without announcing yourself at the very least.

 

[HoughMade]

SSG's not the type.

C'mon, we're just having fun here...in a thread about a woman getting killed for no good reason.

[waits for it]

 

[Alpo]

Isn't this the state of Norwegian Bachelor Farmers and if married, the children are above average?

But they also elected Michelle BoomBoom Bachman who knows that vaccinations cause autism and her husband cures gayness through immersion therapy or some other such nonsense.

and Jesse The Wimp Ventura who sues widows of American heroes.

And Fargo. Can't forget about all those people in Fargo (true story).

WTF is going ON?!!!

 

[chipbennett]

It's common sense why you wouldn't have lights and sirens on when talking to someone next to your car. Try to talk to someone while there is a strobe light in your face and someone yells 'WEE OOO WEE OOO" in your ear. I don't know what policy is on body cameras, but inside the car they probably aren't on.

Depending on how the run was dispatched and department policy, maybe they ran lights and sirens to the area and maybe they didn't. Typically you shut it down once you arrive or when you are close, depending. Bank robbery in progress, I'm not whipping into the parking lot with everything going. I'll get close then come in quiet. Ditto burglaries. I'd rather not be ambushed in the parking lot and I'd like to attempt to apprehend suspects. A fight outside a bar, well, I'll probably leave everything on to annoy the other drunks into clearing out so I can deal with the fighters. It all depends.

So, I'm assuming, based on what I've read so far (insert obvious caveats), that they never ran the lights or sirens for the call. I'm also assuming that, if they had, then their cameras would have already been recording, as per department policy, and that they wouldn't have stopped recording merely because they turned off the lights/sirens.

All of that could prove to be wrong, of course.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So, I'm assuming, based on what I've read so far (insert obvious caveats), that they never ran the lights or sirens for the call. I'm also assuming that, if they had, then their cameras would have already been recording, as per department policy, and that they wouldn't have stopped recording merely because they turned off the lights/sirens.

All of that could prove to be wrong, of course.

Couple of variables. They could've been close enough to not need to activate lights. Through, when someone is being actively victimized, a school of thought is to turn them on to scare the assailant away... while conversely some may not activate in hope of catching/Not alerting the attacker. Also if the light did activate, most cars I've seen require you to manually stop recording even if your overhead lights are deactivated.

 

[chipbennett]

One of my favorite bloggers, former police officer Mike McDaniel, makes many of the same points, and has many of the same questions, as posed here:

https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/the-justine-damond-case-1-tribal-politics/

 

[Kutnupe14]

One of my favorite bloggers, former police officer Mike McDaniel, makes many of the same points, and has many of the same questions, as posed here:

https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/the-justine-damond-case-1-tribal-politics/

here's my question. Chip, I know you're even keeled, so are trying to decide if this was the intentional killing of this woman, just to kill her, or if the officer just ****ed up, but had no malice, or bias. I think the latter is most probable. One of the things I find amazing is the massive amounts of worldwide coverage this is getting. I've been asked about it several times, since I've been here.

 

[chipbennett]

here's my question. Chip, I know you're even keeled, so are trying to decide if this was the intentional killing of this woman, just to kill her, or if the officer just ****ed up, but had no malice, or bias. I think the latter is most probable. One of the things I find amazing is the massive amounts of worldwide coverage this is getting. I've been asked about it several times, since I've been here.

Personally? As with all of these sorts of hot-button cases, I'm waiting to see the facts, before trying to determine anything at all.

But, my bias is typically that people - police officer or non-police, black or what, whatever religion, etc. - don't set out to do harm. Something went wrong here, but my gut instinct would be that the officer did not act out of malice/intent to kill the woman. (It is the same, default approach I took in the Philando Castile shooting: something went wrong, but there was no malice/intent to kill.)

 

[Benp]

It sounds like the woman was actively talking to the driver of the police vehicle, and it wasn't the case that she appeared out of nowhere and startled them. I fail to see how this could happen, even if the cell phone were to be mistaken for a firearm.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So, I'm assuming, based on what I've read so far (insert obvious caveats), that they never ran the lights or sirens for the call. I'm also assuming that, if they had, then their cameras would have already been recording, as per department policy, and that they wouldn't have stopped recording merely because they turned off the lights/sirens.

All of that could prove to be wrong, of course.

I've never had an in car camera, so I'm the wrong person to ask. I neither know nor care how they work.

As far as if they ran lights and sirens, no idea. If it was dispatched as a fight or disturbance, I'd be surprised if they did. We don't run hot to fights unless there are weapons, reports of serious injury, or groups fighting. I've not read much about it as what passes for journalism is mostly sloppy guesswork until much later in the investigation.