Minneapolis Police Shoot Unarmed Woman In Pajamas — With Bodycams Off

[Kutnupe14]

The other Officer is saying they were startled by a loud noise right before the shooting. Starting to sound more like an ND. Not good.

Whoa, I was expecting the firecracker defense (maybe a car backfire?). But it's not unheard of people throwing firecrackers at police to startle them. This guy is probably going to hooked for sir some type of manslaughter. Probably a little bit of jail time too.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Eh... "firecrackers" probably not the case. I'm *still* hearing neighbors fire off those huge fireworks around here... big, booming, giant ones.

Any other time of the year, I could see how it'd be mistaken for a gun.

But yeah... smaller ones, like m80s or something close to the car, that'd probably be a bad idea.

 

[Thor]

Does not sound like the kind of neighborhood where folks would be throwing things at police cars late at night.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Does not sound like the kind of neighborhood where folks would be throwing things at police cars late at night.

If kids didn't exist, I'd agree. But since they do (neverminding that idiots aren't confined to their own neighborhoods), I disagree.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I have to turn my body cam on manually whenever I make a stop or get out on a run then I turn it off after I'm done. I honestly forget to turn it on sometimes when things happen quickly. I'm not saying that was the case with this incident, that's just my personal experience with body cams.

exactly. I forget dumb regulation things when shtf in the ER and immediate action needs to be taken too

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Fear biting a la fireworks?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/us/justine-damond-minneapolis-shooting-australian.html

 

[chipbennett]

Uhh... where do you live that an ongoing sexual assault in an alley is considered routine? Lol

Side note: so, if that was the situation/mindset, why were the lights/siren off, and why were the cameras not rolling?

It really isn't adding up. If the officers don't normally have cameras rolling in non-"heightened" situations, and this one was such, then how could it have been heightened enough for an officer to have a firearm unholstered?

(I'm not assuming any facts in evidence; we don't have many of those yet. I'm just saying that the scenario above is incongruous.)

 

[ghuns]

Being handled negligently? I'm just spitballin' here.

Thanks Mr Obvious. I never made the connection.

 

[SwikLS]

to put this all in perspective, I think a review of the 1984 presidential election is in order

 

[T.Lex]

I know we've moved on a bit, but....

I am waiting for the news reports of white people rioting in the streets over a black officer shooting a white woman.

Oh, wait - that probably isn't going to happen.

Well, the race card was bound to make an appearance eventually.

But, you also know he's not wrong, eh?

I mean, certain people and entities are in the protesting business. Without protests, they'd have to find other work. The facts of this situation don't lend themselves to the moneymaking kind of protests, so it will not be protested.

If the racial elements were reversed, there'd be profit to be made.

ETA: I do hope at some point, probably in the next generation, the protest-triggers are eliminated to the extent that there's no more money to be made.

Minnesota BCA: Minneapolis officer heard loud noise before partner shot Justine Damond



BCA: Loud noise before Justine Damond shot - StarTribune.com

Again, goes back to training and lack of experience in that car.

to put this all in perspective, I think a review of the 1984 presidential election is in order

View attachment 57409

That's always funny.

 

[SSGSAD]

Being handled negligently? I'm just spitballin' here.

Coonfingering ?????

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Wait.

I don't think any of those 3 "facts" you reference has been established conclusively, and weren't even mentioned at the time of Kut's post.

Regardless, you didn't really answer his question: should an ND be treated differently in this instance, given the result, than intentional?

(I have my own opinion, but it is pretty boring and likely non-controversial.)

You guys keep talking about AD's & ND's as if that BS actually matters , it doesn't until it gets in a courtroom .

Something like this happens and folks wanna say it's a " lack of training " , I also say that's BS .

This guy had some sort of academy training just like everyone else and I don't believe the academies across the country are churning out bad cops and I don't believe his academy failed him .

Did / do I have " all the facts " ? No I don't but my trouble / gut radar says that what " facts" are known says that this guy was doing something he shouldn't have been .

For me it's real simple , whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter .

The races involved don't matter , whether he reached across or shot across , doesn't matter .

The fact that none of the multiple recording devices were on looks shady as can be and IMO was most definitely intentional . Strike one .

His weapon was out of his holster before it needed to be , also intentional . Strike two .

Another person that didn't need to be shot , was shot and wound up dead over it . Strike three .

I don't believe the " loud noise " BS either .

As far as I know there were three witnesses , the two ALIVE are officers . Also looks shady .

This guy was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing , someone wound up dead over it and his partner is " covering " for him and should go down with him .

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Side note: so, if that was the situation/mindset, why were the lights/siren off, and why were the cameras not rolling?

It really isn't adding up. If the officers don't normally have cameras rolling in non-"heightened" situations, and this one was such, then how could it have been heightened enough for an officer to have a firearm unholstered?

(I'm not assuming any facts in evidence; we don't have many of those yet. I'm just saying that the scenario above is incongruous.)

It's common sense why you wouldn't have lights and sirens on when talking to someone next to your car. Try to talk to someone while there is a strobe light in your face and someone yells 'WEE OOO WEE OOO" in your ear. I don't know what policy is on body cameras, but inside the car they probably aren't on.

Depending on how the run was dispatched and department policy, maybe they ran lights and sirens to the area and maybe they didn't. Typically you shut it down once you arrive or when you are close, depending. Bank robbery in progress, I'm not whipping into the parking lot with everything going. I'll get close then come in quiet. Ditto burglaries. I'd rather not be ambushed in the parking lot and I'd like to attempt to apprehend suspects. A fight outside a bar, well, I'll probably leave everything on to annoy the other drunks into clearing out so I can deal with the fighters. It all depends.

 

[KLB]

You guys keep talking about AD's & ND's as if that BS actually matters , it doesn't until it gets in a courtroom .

Something like this happens and folks wanna say it's a " lack of training " , I also say that's BS .

This guy had some sort of academy training just like everyone else and I don't believe the academies across the country are churning out bad cops and I don't believe his academy failed him .

Did / do I have " all the facts " ? No I don't but my trouble / gut radar says that what " facts" are known says that this guy was doing something he shouldn't have been .

For me it's real simple , whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter .

The races involved don't matter , whether he reached across or shot across , doesn't matter .

The fact that none of the multiple recording devices were on looks shady as can be and IMO was most definitely intentional . Strike one .

His weapon was out of his holster before it needed to be . Strike two .

Another person that didn't need to be shot , was shot and wound up dead over it . Strike three .

I don't believe the " loud noise " BS either .

As far as I know there were three witnesses , the two ALIVE are officers . Also looks shady .

This guy was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing , someone wound up dead over it and his partner is " covering " for him and should go down with him .

And how do you know the partner is covering for him? Do you have access to their statement?

 

[T.Lex]

You guys keep talking about AD's & ND's as if that BS actually matters , it doesn't until it gets in a courtroom .

Sooooo... it does matter, then, right?

Something like this happens and folks wanna say it's a " lack of training " , I also say that's BS .

Well, speaking only for myself, there's a passing familiarity with the agency at issue in this situation, including news reports and anecdotes going back a dozen or so years. When certain problems continue to happen over an extended period of time, it starts to look like a training issue.

If nothing else, that part of a root-cause analysis should remain on the table.

This guy had some sort of academy training just like everyone else and I don't believe the academies across the country are churning out bad cops and I don't believe his academy failed him .

Again, speaking only for myself, that's not what I said nor is it a reasonable inference from what I stated. Well, the "academy failing him" part might be, because that might've happened. I tend to think making a guy with 3 years of experience the most experienced guy in the car is less an academy issue and more a failure of the PD leadership policies.

Did / do I have " all the facts " ? No I don't but my trouble / gut radar says that what " facts" are known says that this guy was doing something he shouldn't have been .

Like what? A one-man-mission to eradicate blonde Aussie immigrants in as public a way as possible?

Or, more like - as noted above - booger fingering the bang stick when it was pointed at something it shouldn't have been pointing at?

For me it's real simple , whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter .

The races involved don't matter , whether he reached across or shot across , doesn't matter .

The fact that none of the multiple recording devices were on looks shady as can be and IMO was most definitely intentional . Strike one .

His weapon was out of his holster before it needed to be , also intentional . Strike two .

Another person that didn't need to be shot , was shot and wound up dead over it . Strike three .

I don't believe the " loud noise " BS either .

Wait.

You just said intentional/unintentional doesn't matter, then make a case that it was intentional. You have me confused.

As far as I know there were three witnesses , the two ALIVE are officers . Also looks shady .

This guy was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing , someone wound up dead over it and his partner is " covering " for him and should go down with him .

Now I'm REALLY curious what you think he was doing....

 

[Kutnupe14]

Now I'm REALLY curious what you think he was doing....

Being a Muslim, duh. I bet his covering partner is Muslim, or at the very least a Sikh (they wear turbans), too!

 

[SSGSAD]

Here is the "problem" with "training" .....

I gave classes, or "training" while in the Military .....

I was, and am good at it .....

I can stand in front of people, and talk, and be very comfortable .....

I also have a "Loud Clear Voice" .....

That was noted on several of my NCOER's .....

The person in the front of the class,

can see and hear everything .....

The person, in the back of the class,

not so much .....

Also, the people in the front of the class,

USUALLY want to learn .....

The people in the back of the class not so much .....

So training is what YOU make of it .....

YOU get out of it, what YOU put into it ....

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Is it normal police procedure to ride around in a squad car with your firearm unholstered? When rolling up on/stopped at the scene, as we have had it described to us in this incident, is it normal for an officer to have his gun out of the holster?

 

[Benp]

The fact that the firearm was pointed at her in the first place is very odd. Having a hand on the firearm while it's holstered, yes.
How long was this conversation between the woman and the police officers? Or did she run up to their car, bang on the window, and got shot because of it?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Is it normal police procedure to ride around in a squad car with your firearm unholstered? When rolling up on/stopped at the scene, as we have had it described to us in this incident, is it normal for an officer to have his gun out of the holster?

If I was on a perimeter, sitting in my car (while a dog was on a track), I would have my handgun unholstered and in my lap. It made sense to me.