Milsurp Discussion Lounge

[Nugget]

Welcome to the Milsurp Discussion Lounge! My favorite part about the firearm hobby is military surplus and other older/collectible guns. To that end, I was hoping to create a place for the ongoing discussion of all things milsurp.

I did a few searches and didn't see anything like this on the forum (at least not recently). There were a few one-off discussions of specific firearms earlier this year, but no all-encompassing discussion thread. Maybe I missed it, or maybe there's just not enough interest to keep a thread alive. Hopefully that's not the case though!

Obviously this segment of the hobby could mean different things to different people, but I would envision the discussion of topics such as:

• What milsurp have you acquired recently? Where'd you get it, what'd it cost, how's the condition, etc. (Post pics!)
• What kind of prices are you seeing out in the market place? Is this rifle I found at my LGS (or online) a good deal for the price? Who has used/surplus guns in stock in your area? (Maybe you don't want/need them, but another INGOer might!)
• How can I go about fixing or restoring my historical firearm without ruining it? Where can I find NOS or reproduction parts for a specific firearm? Anyone know of a competent gunsmith in my area that works on older weapons?
• Where can I go to find accessories for my specific rifle or pistol (slings, bayonets, clips/mags, replacement grips, etc)?
• Where are you finding new production or surplus ammo to shoot in your milsurps? (Especially those hard-to-find calibers!) Or conversely, where can I find reloading components, data, etc.?
• And most importantly, how does your new-to-you 80 year-old rifle shoot? How's the action run? How's the recoil? What kind of groups are you getting?

 

[TJ Kackowski]

You may want to hop on over to our sister site Texas Gun Talk.

They have a wonderful thread about this very topic where the OP lists information about various milsurp rifles ... take a peek ... https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/this-old-military-rifle.110589/

My personal experience with milsurp has been exclusively with the U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, M1. The most recent issues I've encountered with this rifle are documented here ... https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/m1-goes-kaboom.521709/#post-9164604

Until this little incident, my rifle shot 2 MOA or better using surplus ammo. If all goes well, it will be repaired and will be no less accurate than it once was.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Where are you finding new production or surplus ammo to shoot in your milsurps? (Especially those hard-to-find calibers!)

My most "oddball" caliber milsurp is my Dutch Model 1895 Mannlicher Bicycle Carbine. (6.5x53R). I can't remember where I found some brass (made from .303 Brit brass btw), but it was pricey. 3 of us on here went in on it, and I loaded up some rounds for us. I did find this, but I don't think this is where I got the brass, since theirs is actually marked correctly (instead of .303 Brit), and I know I didn't pay $5.50 apiece!

6.5x53Rmm Mannlicher (Dutch & Romanian) - Roberson Cartridge Company

www.rccbrass.com

The rifle is the one on the top in the pic. The one below it is also a Dutch model 1895, but it was converted by Indonesia to .303 Brit after WWII when they had a bunch of leftover British ammo.



The bicycle carbine has the wood covering the mag box to make it more comfortable when slung over the bicycle soldier's back (also why the sling mounts were on the side.

 

[Nugget]

TJ --- Thanks for the link (and for contributing to my new thread). That guy does indeed do a nice job of summarizing and providing pics about a wide variety of surplus guns. I'll have to take a deeper dive when time allows.

And sorry to read about your M1! Glad no one was hurt. Hopefully you get it all worked out and get her back on the firing line soon. I've never really heard anything good about anything made by the Turks... their ammo or their guns.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

TJ --- Thanks for the link (and for contributing to my new thread). That guy does indeed do a nice job of summarizing and providing pics about a wide variety of surplus guns. I'll have to take a deeper dive when time allows.

And sorry to read about your M1! Glad no one was hurt. Hopefully you get it all worked out and get her back on the firing line soon. I've never really heard anything good about anything made by the Turks... their ammo or their guns.

Nothing wrong with Turk guns. Even today they make quality firearms. Think Canik or SAR. I never had any issue shooting Turk 8mm out of my Mausers but it is hot ammo.

 

[rob63]

This is my favorite Milsurp in my collection. Picked it up at an auction in Ohio a few years back, paid $800 for it. A guy laughed at me and told me Mauser's are a dime a dozen and that I am a fool for paying that much. Seriously, the only time anything like that has ever happened. I think I did ok.

 

[kaveman]

So many I couldn't begin to go into it but I'll post about one. It's a pre-98 Mauser that I found walking around a gunshow in Hillsboro, OR maybe 25yrs ago. The guy selling it wanted $125 because it was carved up a little bit. I was happy to give him the $125 and took it home.

Only pics I have are of that vintage and taken with my first digital camera, so they're bad. The rifle itself is a 7mm Carbine made by Ludwig Loewe. It's actually a Boer War Mauser, probably worth somewhere around 3 grand. The 'carvings' I suspect are soldiers names,.......the Dutch Boer name on the forearm whih I forget and JJ WEBB on the buttstock, probably the English soldier who captured it. Typical of Boer Mausers, ZAR is carved into the right side at the magazine.

There's an interesting article in a Guns&Ammo Annual for the 1970's that goes into detail on these guns(which is why I had suspicions of what it might be)and they picture one identical carbine with the serial number visible,....only a couple of numbers off from this one.

 

[kaveman]

Oh, DoggyDaddy,......have you got enblocks for those Dutch Mannlichers? I collect those rifles too and have a small bucket of clips if you need a few. I know they're kinda hard to find.

 

[Nugget]

Now we're cooking! Great pics and stories so far, guys. Keep 'em coming. And I love to see the camaraderie, kaveman. Exactly what i was hoping for with this thread. I guess now that we're getting some activity in here, i should probably contribute a little!

The pics below are of my most recent milsurp acquisition, an Arisaka Type 99 that i bought about a month ago. The serial # and markings indicate it's a 32nd Series Toyo Kogyo rifle, mfd sometime around 1941/42. As i mentioned in one of my first posts after joining the forum, it's definitely a shooter, not a museum piece. It has no mum whatsoever, numbers don't match, doesn't have a monopod, bayonet, or sling, and a previous owner Bubba'ed the stock by adding an extra inch+ of wood and a modern buttpad to the end.

On the plus side though, the bore is great, the anti-aircraft sights are intact, it shoots great, there's no import markings, and I only paid $225 for the rifle, a second complete stock (with hardware), and a couple boxes of ammo. The ammo alone made it worthwhile to me. (FYI, I'm on the lookout for more 7.7 Jap ammo if anyone has any they're looking to sell or trade!)

First pic is the rifle, along with the spare stock. (Note the high-quality Bubba-job at the end of the stock on the rifle!)


Second pic is the action showing the complete lack of mum. I'm assuming someone ground it smooth and polished it at some point. Perhaps a trained eye can verify or correct me.


My next big decision is whether i want to go to the effort of moving the rifle to the other stock, or leave it as is. Given the lack of mum and how well it shoots in its current configuration, i might just keep it as is and sell the spare stock to recoup some of the cost (or pay for more ammo). First though, I need to strip it down and give it a decent cleaning. That process might help me make my decision.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Oh, DoggyDaddy,......have you got enblocks for those Dutch Mannlichers? I collect those rifles too and have a small bucket of clips if you need a few. I know they're kinda hard to find.

I do indeed, but thank you for the offer!

 

[Expat]

I have some milsurp Polish and Romanian AK mags on the way now.

 

[rob63]

Second pic is the action showing the complete lack of mum. I'm assuming someone ground it smooth and polished it at some point. Perhaps a trained eye can verify or correct me.

The mums are commonly missing, and it was done at the end of the war. I have seen several different theories on why this was done and by whom, but presumably it had something to do with the mum being the personal emblem of the emperor. It does look like someone did re-blue the area, likely by the guy that did the butt extension.

 

[Nugget]

The mums are commonly missing, and it was done at the end of the war. I have seen several different theories on why this was done and by whom, but presumably it had something to do with the mum being the personal emblem of the emperor. It looks like someone did re-blue the area, likely by the guy that did the butt extension.

Yeah, I've seen the mums crossed out and scratched out but never gone completely. I'm guessing you're right about the re-bluing by the previous owner though. Maybe it had a defaced mum and he wanted it to look uniform and pristine.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Something a little different. Spanish Destroyer (kind of like a mini-Mauser) in 9mm Largo. Fun little pistol caliber carbine.

 

[STopaz1982]

This is my favorite Milsurp in my collection. Picked it up at an auction in Ohio a few years back, paid $800 for it. A guy laughed at me and told me Mauser's are a dime a dozen and that I am a fool for paying that much. Seriously, the only time anything like that has ever happened. I think I did ok.

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I think at $800 it was stolen and should be surrendered to the proper authority (Me That is a beautiful gun and all matching-Wow!

 

[tomcat13]

First-Thanks for the thread!
Second, I've Always wanted an '03 & was finally able to Trade for this Rock Island.
Hope you won't mind if I get some Opinions here.
I'm considering Re-barreling this rifle, as the current bore is pretty rough.
Not wanting to do a Lot of Shooting with it, but would like to be able to get it "on paper"!
Thoughts?

 

[Michigan Slim]

First-Thanks for the thread!
Second, I've Always wanted an '03 & was finally able to Trade for this Rock Island.
Hope you won't mind if I get some Opinions here.
I'm considering Re-barreling this rifle, as the current bore is pretty rough.
Not wanting to do a Lot of Shooting with it, but would like to be able to get it "on paper"!
Thoughts?
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In my opinion absolutely rebarrel it. If it can't shoot it's no fun.

 

[Mongo59]

They are a blast to shoot and I would recommend rebarreling it. You will have fun with it.

I am assuming it to be a "high" number RI as some of the more brittle low numbered receivers will crack and break attempting the process...

 

[Destro]

I am assuming it to be a "high" number RI as some of the more brittle low numbered receivers will crack and break attempting the process...

Was going to say this. Internet has quite bit of information (and opinion) on this issue. Definitely worth the research before you make a decision.

 

[kennedy759]

go to gunboards.com, its for all types of mil surplus, it started as a mosin nagant forum and expanded to all mill surp