Mandated vaccines or weekly testing for employers of 100+ people.......

[buckwacker]

Those same organizations have brought to market thousands of drug products in the time I've worked in the industry. By and large, the data used to approve those drugs have been reliable. Covid has been an exception, in many ways. I have stated elsewhere that how Covid-related drug products were handled greatly erodes trust, and that I find it hard to believe that there wasn't fraud, crony capitalism, and collusion involved. Unfortunately, I doubt it will ever truly come to light, because of politics. I'm not sure what more you want me to say.

What happened with Covid vaccines absolutely calls into question what happens when politics and public policy get intertwined in the development and approval of drug products (see also: Aduhelm). It doesn't, however, call into question the entire pharmaceutical industry.


I didn't give deference to "The Science" (quite the opposite, in fact). I gave deference to the available data. Those data were wrong, which made my conclusions/assertions based on those data wrong. I have stated this. What more are you looking for?

People like me? I've done no such thing. I have been very vocal against forcing anyone to take the vaccine.


Yeah, I don't like being wrong about the safety of the vaccine. Not because it means I have to admit I was wrong, but because people's lives are adversely impacted. I have no problem having it pointed out if/when I'm wrong, and in fact respect and appreciate it - especially in the workplace. People's lives are literally impacted, which leaves little room for ego or pride.

But you can miss me with lumping me in with the "trust The Science" crowd, because that was never me. I made an assessment based on data made available, and revised that assessment when other data were made available.

(Side note: as for the safety of mRNA vaccines: I largely argued on the basis of decades of clinical data on mRNA vaccines in general, regarding the general safety of mRNA as a delivery method. There may be something inherently unsafe in using mRNA to deliver a SARS-CoV2 spike protein, or widespread use of mRNA may call into question something about mRNA itself. I hope we find out which it is, because mRNA was a promising technology.)

Basically it boils down to a lot of us told you not to trust the data because it was unreliable for the reasons I've stated numerous times; you chose to defend the safety of the vaccine based on said data. Your judgement was wrong, and a smart guy like you should have known better. You keep saying, but the data, and I'm telling you we warned you it wasn't reliable. Blindly basing decisions on data fed to us by a bunch of proven liars and hustlers without accounting for all the surrounding context seems foolish to me.

What happened with covid injections absolutely calls into the question the pharmaceutical industry. These companies hid adverse data to make their products more palatable to the public. There's not much more they could have done to destroy public trust. That they've made good productsc in the past, doesn't absolve them of current sins. I'm now more skeptical of everything they produce.

My understanding is that mrna has never been widely used on humans, it's always been used in a very limited way on people with few other treatment options. So essentially a significant portion of the world population were forceably subjected to scientific experimentation on their bodies. We've hung people for that in the not too distant past.

 

[chipbennett]

Basically it boils down to a lot of us told you not to trust the data because it was unreliable for the reasons I've stated numerous times; you chose to defend the safety of the vaccine based on said data. Your judgement was wrong, and a smart guy like you should have known better. You keep saying, but the data, and I'm telling you we warned you it wasn't reliable. Blindly basing decisions on data fed to us by a bunch of proven liars and hustlers without accounting for all the surrounding context seems foolish to me.

Except, not all of the data in the entire industry are fraudulent. That's just absurd. My judgment was and is not faulty. Thousands of drug products taken by billions of people around the world demonstrate that the vast majority of clinical data regarding safety and efficacy are accurate and reliable.

In the end, you were right that those particular data - the clinical data for Covid mRNA vaccines - were unreliable. It has nothing to do with judgment, unless you can provide some empirical basis (other than "the entire industry produces fraudulent clinical data", which is what your criticism sounds like) for knowing beforehand that data would be misconstrued, hidden, and/or fraudulent.

What happened with covid injections absolutely calls into the question the pharmaceutical industry. These companies hid adverse data to make their products more palatable to the public. There's not much more they could have done to destroy public trust. That they've made good productsc in the past, doesn't absolve them of current sins. I'm now more skeptical of everything they produce.

I don't disagree with you. But that is a result of what happened through Covid, not a state that existed prior to Covid. Particular companies now have a serious trust issue with the public - particularly the few who benefited from what certainly appears to be crony capitalism (with shades of fascism).

That's still not true of the entire industry.

My understanding is that mrna has never been widely used on humans, it's always been used in a very limited way on people with few other treatment options. So essentially a significant portion of the world population were forceably subjected to scientific experimentation on their bodies. We've hung people for that in the not too distant past.

I agree here, too. Vaccines should never have been forced onto people.

 

[KLB]

Except, not all of the data in the entire industry are fraudulent. That's just absurd. My judgment was and is not faulty. Thousands of drug products taken by billions of people around the world demonstrate that the vast majority of clinical data regarding safety and efficacy are accurate and reliable.

They are more open about the possible side effects of those drugs. Listening to drug commercials is kind of horrifying sometimes.

The sad thing here is the .gov is helping to hide the adverse effects of the vaccines rather than help find, track, and help educate people about them.

 

[chipbennett]

They are more open about the possible side effects of those drugs. Listening to drug commercials is kind of horrifying sometimes.

The sad thing here is the .gov is helping to hide the adverse effects of the vaccines rather than help find, track, and help educate people about them.

Absolutely true, and an absolutely fair criticism. The combined actions of the government and certain pharmaceutical companies have done untold damage to the public, and to public trust.

 

[buckwacker]

Except, not all of the data in the entire industry are fraudulent. That's just absurd. My judgment was and is not faulty. Thousands of drug products taken by billions of people around the world demonstrate that the vast majority of clinical data regarding safety and efficacy are accurate and reliable.

In the end, you were right that those particular data - the clinical data for Covid mRNA vaccines - were unreliable. It has nothing to do with judgment, unless you can provide some empirical basis (other than "the entire industry produces fraudulent clinical data", which is what your criticism sounds like) for knowing beforehand that data would be misconstrued, hidden, and/or fraudulent.


I don't disagree with you. But that is a result of what happened through Covid, not a state that existed prior to Covid. Particular companies now have a serious trust issue with the public - particularly the few who benefited from what certainly appears to be crony capitalism (with shades of fascism).

That's still not true of the entire industry.


I agree here, too. Vaccines should never have been forced onto people.

So we have a vast history of developing proven safe and effective pharmaceutical products from scratch in mere months right before we inject them into billions of people? Everything about covid was fubar from the beginning, the secrecy, the censorship, the propaganda, the vilification of anyone daring to stray from the official orthodoxy (particularly in the medical and scientific fields), the firings, the coercion were all bright red flashing warning signs that we shouldn't trust anything these people were peddling. None of this was normal and none of it made sense, absent "pick your conspiracy theory". You chose to trust and accept their data despite all of this, and that constitutes bad judgement in my opinion.

With regard to trust, it's difficult to build, but oh so easy to destroy. I mean Benedict Arnold served admirably during the war but his name is now synonymous with treachery for one act of betrayal. My point is the institutions across this country and the world have irreparably destroyed their credibility because the vast majority of folks were either too afraid or lacked the judgement to heed the warning signs and speak up. If enough of them had, maybe we wouldn't have wrecked the world.

 

[actaeon277]

I wonder who is one of the largest donators to political movements.

I wonder

 

[Ingomike]

Definitely wouldn’t be any pharmaceutical company

Soros, planned parenthood, unions, to name a few biggies...

 

[manifest destiny]

The vax safety or lack of aside, it was the FORCED injections that boil my blood. The Fed's force may have been by proxy but it was no less evil. The Fed has no obligation to save me from myself. Moreover the Fed has NO RIGHT to force a "cure" upon me. It goes against natural law. The Big Pharma globalist can ride in the ****off boat with Brandon. Their product was dangerous. They knew their product was dangerous and yet the foisted every last milliliter they could upon the global populous using the force of government.

 

[manifest destiny]

It's Politico - hardly a bastion of right-wing conspirators. The article is stupid long. My super short cliff notes: NGO's spent billion$ with promises of a cure and supporting distribution of said cure. Funny enough, the NGO's rec'd more billion$ than they spent. All about saving lives my ass.

How Bill Gates and partners used their clout to control the global Covid response — with little oversight

Four health organizations, working closely together, spent almost $10 billion on responding to Covid across the world. But they lacked the scrutiny of governments, and fell short of their own goals, a POLITICO and WELT investigation found.

www.politico.com

 

[chipbennett]

So we have a vast history of developing proven safe and effective pharmaceutical products from scratch in mere months right before we inject them into billions of people? Everything about covid was fubar from the beginning, the secrecy, the censorship, the propaganda, the vilification of anyone daring to stray from the official orthodoxy (particularly in the medical and scientific fields), the firings, the coercion were all bright red flashing warning signs that we shouldn't trust anything these people were peddling. None of this was normal and none of it made sense, absent "pick your conspiracy theory". You chose to trust and accept their data despite all of this, and that constitutes bad judgement in my opinion.

There are decades of data on mRNA as a delivery mechanism for other payloads. At the same time, there's clearly an issue with the mRNA Covid vaccine. It may be something unique to delivering the spike protein RNA via mRNA. It may be something about mRNA itself. (Though, I suspect it is the Frankenvirus rather than the delivery method.)

And I can only ever evaluate the data that are presented. The problem is that the data being presented today were available then, and had we been presented today's data then, the evaluation would have been much different.

With regard to trust, it's difficult to build, but oh so easy to destroy. I mean Benedict Arnold served admirably during the war but his name is now synonymous with treachery for one act of betrayal. My point is the institutions across this country and the world have irreparably destroyed their credibility because the vast majority of folks were either too afraid or lacked the judgement to heed the warning signs and speak up. If enough of them had, maybe we wouldn't have wrecked the world.

Personally, I think it was more sinister than that. This appeared to me to be a giant kickback for political favors. (Maybe that makes me a conspiracy theorist...)

 

[chipbennett]

I wonder who is one of the largest donators to political movements.

I wonder

Starts with "ffff" and rhymes with miser?

 

[printcraft]

The vax safety or lack of aside, it was the FORCED injections that boil my blood. ....

I wouldn't be surprised to hear this is a side effect at this point.

 

[wtburnette]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear this is a side effect at this point.

I was going to do the laugh thing, but did the frown instead because at this point, it's just too sad to laugh at.

 

[Flingarrows]

They are more open about the possible side effects of those drugs. Listening to drug commercials is kind of horrifying sometimes.

The sad thing here is the .gov is helping to hide the adverse effects of the vaccines rather than help find, track, and help educate people about them.

Give it up. You have given him fact and reason and he is still defending a faulty statement

 

[chipbennett]

Give it up. You have given him fact and reason and he is still defending a faulty statement

Assuming that he is me: what faulty statement am I still defending?

 

[tim87tr]

Assuming that he is me: what faulty statement am I still defending?

I have a serious question I'd like your take on. Based on your career and knowledge, has there been any other vaccine developed and distributed on this short of time frame and also under an EUA? Also after reading your old post on the ingredients in the Pfizer vaccine, has there been any information or disclosure about the contents of the EUA vaccines? These are not gotcha questions, only for my intellectual curiousity.

I've often wondered about how there is so much discussion about a vaccine if we do not really know what is in it, only what we've been told. Also it never made sense to me that there was a rush for a medical "solution" to an alleged virus that didn't appear to be killing that many people.

 

[chipbennett]

I have a serious question I'd like your take on. Based on your career and knowledge, has there been any other vaccine developed and distributed on this short of time frame and also under an EUA?

Not to my knowledge, no.

Also after reading your old post on the ingredients in the Pfizer vaccine, has there been any information or disclosure about the contents of the EUA vaccines? These are not gotcha questions, only for my intellectual curiousity.

I haven't seen - but also haven't looked. Got kind of burned out on all-vaccines-all-the-time, and thankfully, my client work took me in other directions, mostly, over the past year or so.

I've often wondered about how there is so much discussion about a vaccine if we do not really know what is in it, only what we've been told. Also it never made sense to me that there was a rush for a medical "solution" to an alleged virus that didn't appear to be killing that many people.

I don't think anyone will ever convince me it was anything other than a political decision, particularly the push to mandate, guilt-trip, cajole, and otherwise force/influence the masses to take the vaccine.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

HHS expected to renew Covid-19 public health emergency for 11th time | Sharyl Attkisson

sharylattkisson.com

What Happens When COVID-19 Emergency Declarations End? Implications for Coverage, Costs, and Access | KFF

This brief provides an overview of the major health-related COVID-19 federal emergency declarations that have been made since early on in the pandemic, summarizes the flexibilities triggered by each, and identifies the implications for their ending, related to coverage, costs, and payment for...

www.kff.org

 

[DoggyDaddy]

HHS expected to renew Covid-19 public health emergency for 11th time | Sharyl Attkisson

sharylattkisson.com

What Happens When COVID-19 Emergency Declarations End? Implications for Coverage, Costs, and Access | KFF

This brief provides an overview of the major health-related COVID-19 federal emergency declarations that have been made since early on in the pandemic, summarizes the flexibilities triggered by each, and identifies the implications for their ending, related to coverage, costs, and payment for...

www.kff.org

 

[BigRed]

HHS expected to renew Covid-19 public health emergency for 11th time | Sharyl Attkisson

sharylattkisson.com

"Pubic" health emergency?

Is that a typo or a Freudian slip?