IRS agent accidentally shot, killed by fellow agent during training at Phoenix gun range

[KG1]

That's a fair question. Local/state coppers have no obligation to administer fed functions, as I understand it. So if IRS needs a badge/gun to assist in apprehending tax cheats, couldn't they use one of the existing fed police forces?
Side question, not to you specifically, I wonder how many tax cheats are so dangerous they would require armed agents be used? Or I guess, what kind of people are these IRS agents actually pursuing? Surely not the run of the mill swindler who claims erroneous deductions.

Al Capone.

 

[manifest destiny]

Al Capone.

I'll see your Al Capone and raise you one Hunter Biden.

 

[Mongo59]

I am pretty sure the one who did the shooting has confirmed his willingness to take a life. Tough way to get a promotion...

 

[Ark]

I guess they hired him.

 

[printcraft]

 

[DragonGunner]

Same reason as everyone else I presume. I feel the need to be armed sometimes so I'm not going to pass judgement on anyone else.

Armed and trained to shoot on a rifle range. Because their office jobs require sniper skills and our tax $ paying for this crap. You’re not seeing the big picture at all.

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

That's a fair question. Local/state coppers have no obligation to administer fed functions, as I understand it. So if IRS needs a badge/gun to assist in apprehending tax cheats, couldn't they use one of the existing fed police forces?
Side question, not to you specifically, I wonder how many tax cheats are so dangerous they would require armed agents be used? Or I guess, what kind of people are these IRS agents actually pursuing? Surely not the run of the mill swindler who claims erroneous deductions.

The thing is that where in the midst of a "chicken or the egg" situation when it comes to crime and more importantly our culture. Violent crime is getting more violent, and in turn policing is requiring stronger tactics to combat it, and in turn violent crime is getting more violent, so on and so forth. I call this phenomenon the "Vicious Cycle", where we have ever increasing dangerous encounters, which ultimately leads to further oppression of the general public.

With violent crime increasing today with ever increasingly effective equipment and tactics, one could make the argument that we need stronger policing tactics, but there is a problem with this. First is that crime rates are usually a symptom of the culture and values of a society, not how many police are on the streets or how many guns are out there, so giving cops AT-4's and Howitzers would only be a band-aid at best. Second is that oppression usually follows, as everyone is put under further scrutiny out of fear and concern. One anecdote is one time I had the cops called on me because I was shooting a Red Ryder BB gun out of my backyard (out in the county I might add) in 2013. The officer responding told me that he and friends used to walk around everywhere with their BB guns, but I couldn't do that because ISIS was doing bad stuff.

Personally if I had to take on this torrent of villainy, I would want my NVG's, top of the line AR, and a whole squad of people I would trust with my life, but these teams have existed for decades now, and we are only seeing an increase in crime activity.

Any situation where we see the government increasing its monopoly on violence is going to be seen as a potential threat by our ilk. I mean, it's not like our government has a history of unnecessarily escalating a situation to a point where tragedy occurs? Let alone, what other governments have done in other countries in the last century?

 

[cbhausen]

Sounds like somebody broke Rule #1… and I’m not talking about the one where we pretend all guns are loaded all the time.

 

[Mongo59]

Sounds like somebody broke Rule #1… and I’m not talking about the one where we pretend all guns are loaded all the time.

Rule one?

Is that the Golden Rule?

He who has the gold makes the rules?

 

[Denny347]

That's a fair question. Local/state coppers have no obligation to administer fed functions, as I understand it. So if IRS needs a badge/gun to assist in apprehending tax cheats, couldn't they use one of the existing fed police forces?
Side question, not to you specifically, I wonder how many tax cheats are so dangerous they would require armed agents be used? Or I guess, what kind of people are these IRS agents actually pursuing? Surely not the run of the mill swindler who claims erroneous deductions.

Other agencies have their own crimes they are responsible for. Example. In Indiana, we have State DNR Conservation Officers. They handle State game, wildlife, hunting, resource, etc. Same argument here, why can't local police handle DNR violations in their jurisdiction? DNR is very specialized to investigate and enforce those unique laws. I would do a **** poor job tryin to fill their shoes. I would also assume that US tax law is a unique to enforce and requires specialized knowledge. That is their only focus.

Also, old example, but Al Capone was arrest for tax evasion. I would not arrest him while unarmed. Lots of criminal organizations don't pay taxes. Many white collar criminals don't either. I prefer to be armed whenever I arrest ANYONE regardless of level of crime. If I am putting you in handcuffs, I'm armed. If the agent is responsible for enforcing Federal law and arresting people for those crimes, being armed seems reasonable.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

First, prayers for all those involved.

This accident could have been prevented…why do IRS agents need to be armed?

If this is the result, perhaps it's okay

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I sure hope these guys are going to find all that missing money the govt can't find.

Maybe they will whip them into shape and big daddy government will finally pass an audit.

The only money they're going to find is in your pocket

 

[Denny347]

Armed and trained to shoot on a rifle range. Because their office jobs require sniper skills and our tax $ paying for this crap. You’re not seeing the big picture at all.

I read that article, did I miss the part about a "rifle" range? I saw references to "firearms" range. I also missed the part about them shooting rifles.

 

[Denny347]

If this is the result, perhaps it's okay

Wow, you like the fact that he is dead. Classy.

 

[Tombs]

if not the IRS Special Agents, who would you like to investigate then arrest the criminals who are defrauding the IRS?

Between deductions and carve outs, I don't believe they serve a legitimate function. They might have at one time.

Now they're just another arm for serving political agendas. One less is a benefit for the public.

 

[smokingman]

Also, old example, but Al Capone was arrest for tax evasion. I would not arrest him while unarmed. Lots of criminal organizations don't pay taxes. Many white collar criminals don't either. I prefer to be armed whenever I arrest ANYONE regardless of level of crime. If I am putting you in handcuffs, I'm armed. If the agent is responsible for enforcing Federal law and arresting people for those crimes, being armed seems reasonable.

What agency arrested Al Capone? Hint,it was not the IRS.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

if not the IRS Special Agents, who would you like to investigate then arrest the criminals who are defrauding the IRS?

Big Red

 

[bwframe]

If we'd just vote in The Fair Tax, we could fire all of the IRS agents.

On top of the government collecting more money than ever.

 

[Creedmoor]

Other agencies have their own crimes they are responsible for. Example. In Indiana, we have State DNR Conservation Officers. They handle State game, wildlife, hunting, resource, etc. Same argument here, why can't local police handle DNR violations in their jurisdiction? DNR is very specialized to investigate and enforce those unique laws. I would do a **** poor job tryin to fill their shoes. I would also assume that US tax law is a unique to enforce and requires specialized knowledge. That is their only focus.

Also, old example, but Al Capone was arrest for tax evasion. I would not arrest him while unarmed. Lots of criminal organizations don't pay taxes. Many white collar criminals don't either. I prefer to be armed whenever I arrest ANYONE regardless of level of crime. If I am putting you in handcuffs, I'm armed. If the agent is responsible for enforcing Federal law and arresting people for those crimes, being armed seems reasonable.

The last time I looked inside of the DC Beltway, there were over 120 different LE Departments.

 

[Mongo59]

Other agencies have their own crimes they are responsible for. Example. In Indiana, we have State DNR Conservation Officers. They handle State game, wildlife, hunting, resource, etc. Same argument here, why can't local police handle DNR violations in their jurisdiction? DNR is very specialized to investigate and enforce those unique laws. I would do a **** poor job tryin to fill their shoes. I would also assume that US tax law is a unique to enforce and requires specialized knowledge. That is their only focus.

Also, old example, but Al Capone was arrest for tax evasion. I would not arrest him while unarmed. Lots of criminal organizations don't pay taxes. Many white collar criminals don't either. I prefer to be armed whenever I arrest ANYONE regardless of level of crime. If I am putting you in handcuffs, I'm armed. If the agent is responsible for enforcing Federal law and arresting people for those crimes, being armed seems reasonable.

Yes, just watch The Untouchables. Sean shot the dead man in the mouth, this guy got to shoot a live one. Makes you wonder what the training involves...