I just luv gubmint

[phylodog]

Pick from 1 of the other 27,419 types of taxes? Sales tax seems to be a pretty obvious choice.

It blows my mind (now that I'm older, I don't claim to have had this perspective for long) that we have a system in this country where a person has zero choice but to participate in the economy if they want to live or own anything.

Hypothetical - If someone "owns" the land and has the skills to be 100% self sufficient and never needed anything from the outside world they would be thrown off of their property for not earning money to pay for the right to possess that land. That is not a truly free country, it's wrong at its core and should be abolished.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

We all essentially agree a property tax does not allow for ownership without payment. The question is, just who and how should government services that directly benefit the property be paid for. County, city, and town streets and roads and other infrastructure. What about the surveyors and drainage departments? Police and fire departments? The deed offices that secure you ownership. These all directly benefit the property.

Who should fund schools is certainly debatable but service directly to or for property should be paid by who how if there is no property tax?

People demand that the government do more and more and more than ever before and are surprised when the government exacts more and more money from them.

Somewhere along the way, probably when we started hiring commie teachers to teach our kids, we forgot to teach them that every dollar the government spends comes from them first.

 

[Ingomike]

Hypothetical - If someone "owns" the land and has the skills to be 100% self sufficient and never needed anything from the outside world they would be thrown off of their property for not earning money to pay for the right to possess that land. That is not a truly free country, it's wrong at its core and should be abolished.

The hypothetical is nearly impossible in most areas that have anything remotely tillable and or pasture, I have studied this a lot and it opened my eyes to how difficult it is. That said we don’t live in the wilds. Should the burden for the services that directly impact property be the the responsibility of those that do not even own property?

 

[phylodog]

The hypothetical is nearly impossible in most areas that have anything remotely tillable and or pasture, I have studied this a lot and it opened my eyes to how difficult it is. That said we don’t live in the wilds. Should the burden for the services that directly impact property be the the responsibility of those that do not even own property?

I'm not sure you understand what a hypothetical is and regardless of your studies, if someone wanted to do that it is possible. Or it would be if people had a right to own property.

Are those costs evenly spread now? Is a retired couple who leaves their house once every two weeks utilizing the same services and creating the same costs as a couple in their late 20's with four kids next door? How is that fair? Eliminate residential property taxes altogether or base the taxes on the purchase price.

I just don't see people who work their entire working lives to own a home being forced out because something they "own" would be worth something, if they sold it. It's ********, its insanity and there is no shortage of viable alternatives.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Did they do away with the mortgage deduction this year? I've still got the homestead deduction, but the $3000 mortgage deduction went away.

Read the fine print on your bill. (paraphrased) "yes we did away with MD but we increased HD an equal amount to counter it." Your bill is supposed to be the same as it would have been with the two half-sized deductions.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Pick from 1 of the other 27,419 types of taxes? Sales tax seems to be a pretty obvious choice.

It blows my mind (now that I'm older, I don't claim to have had this perspective for long) that we have a system in this country where a person has zero choice but to participate in the economy if they want to live or own anything.

Hypothetical - If someone "owns" the land and has the skills to be 100% self sufficient and never needed anything from the outside world they would be thrown off of their property for not earning money to pay for the right to possess that land. That is not a truly free country, it's wrong at its core and should be abolished.

Yes. Taxes should be based on consumption, not ownership and the unrealized gains that they really didnt get because they didnt sell or consume anything.

 

[Ingomike]

I just don't see people who work their entire working lives to own a home being forced out because something they "own" would be worth something, if they sold it. It's ********, its insanity and there is no shortage of viable alternatives.

That is not what happens, the property receives many benefits that directly benefit the property and owner, the value of the property is the measuring stick for how much that owner owes for those benefits. Who should pay for those benefits?

 

[Cameramonkey]

That is not what happens, the property receives many benefits that directly benefit the property and owner, the value of the property is the measuring stick for how much that owner owes for those benefits. Who should pay for those benefits?

Care to show your work? What benefits?

 

[Ingomike]

Care to show your work? What benefits?

County, city, and town streets and roads and other infrastructure. What about the surveyors and drainage departments? Police and fire departments? The deed offices that secure you ownership. These all directly benefit the property.

The one that I have a huge objection to is property owners funding schools…

 

[Cameramonkey]

County, city, and town streets and roads and other infrastructure. What about the surveyors and drainage departments? Police and fire departments? The deed offices that secure you ownership. These all directly benefit the property.

The one that I have a huge objection to is property owners funding schools…

Sorry, I thought you meant simply by owning my property I actually got benefits for the actual ownership. Not a service in paid for by the property taxes. I thought you meant actual value for simply owning vs renting. Like "homeowners get 5% off their meal at Billy's Burger Joint."

And I want a refund for the deed department. The same ones that look at an obvious takeover scam and say "Not my job to notice an obvious fraudulent transaction that's gonna leave a homeowner on the street due to a scammer. I just record the change. " (an actual statement (paraphrased) when a Rafael Sanchez type reporter asked why these fraudsters cant be stopped at the source.)

 

[phylodog]

That is not what happens, the property receives many benefits that directly benefit the property and owner, the value of the property is the measuring stick for how much that owner owes for those benefits. Who should pay for those benefits?

They can be paid for by other means. They haven't taxed our ****ing sleep yet but I'm sure my Sleep Number bed is collecting data for them so I won't be surprised when it happens.

 

[firecadet613]

And I want a refund for the deed department. The same ones that look at an obvious takeover scam and say "Not my job to notice an obvious fraudulent transaction that's gonna leave a homeowner on the street due to a scammer. I just record the change. " (an actual statement (paraphrased) when a Rafael Sanchez type reporter asked why these fraudsters cant be stopped at the source.)

Many counties now offer a free service that notifies you if any changes to your deed are made.

I signed up and got a notification (that I was expecting) in no time...

 

[firecadet613]

Pick from 1 of the other 27,419 types of taxes? Sales tax seems to be a pretty obvious choice.

It blows my mind (now that I'm older, I don't claim to have had this perspective for long) that we have a system in this country where a person has zero choice but to participate in the economy if they want to live or own anything.

Hypothetical - If someone "owns" the land and has the skills to be 100% self sufficient and never needed anything from the outside world they would be thrown off of their property for not earning money to pay for the right to possess that land. That is not a truly free country, it's wrong at its core and should be abolished.

Freedom is an illusion...

 

[phylodog]

Freedom is an illusion...

Indeed

 

[CHCRandy]

County, city, and town streets and roads and other infrastructure. What about the surveyors and drainage departments? Police and fire departments? The deed offices that secure you ownership. These all directly benefit the property.

The one that I have a huge objection to is property owners funding schools…

The problem is think about how many of them things you mention collect multiple payments/taxes. For instance.....we pay taxes to buy license plates, that were suppose to be paid by lottery, then they add a road tax to the already expensive license plate tax. Are these fees not for road infrastructure? Then drainage department...I already pay drainage department when I pay my bill for water/sewer/waste water......and dont forget the $10 a month fire hydrant tax. Police are still free.....but in my neck of the woods, you call 911 and an ambulance and you get a $1000+ bill from them! And don't even get me going on schools....the most wasteful spenders on earth!

 

[Wolfhound]

 

[KLB]

County, city, and town streets and roads and other infrastructure. What about the surveyors and drainage departments? Police and fire departments? The deed offices that secure you ownership. These all directly benefit the property.

The one that I have a huge objection to is property owners funding schools…

Not a lot of benefit from most of those out here.

Why are roads being paid for with property taxes? I thought that was why they increased the fuel taxes.

 

[WebSnyper]

That is not what happens, the property receives many benefits that directly benefit the property and owner, the value of the property is the measuring stick for how much that owner owes for those benefits. Who should pay for those benefits?

Sounds a whole lot like "from each according to their Ability, to each according to their Needs..."

 

[patience0830]

That is not what happens, the property receives many benefits that directly benefit the property and owner, the value of the property is the measuring stick for how much that owner owes for those benefits. Who should pay for those benefits?

********. I'd be fine if they did a helluva lot less and just left me alone but the communists in office think I ought buy your bennies and everybody else's that won't work. **** that.

 

[smokingman]

Want to see why your assessed values are rising sharply it can be summed up in a couple of charts.

View attachment 347476

Note the housing supply deficit. That is the demand vs. supply, now let’s look at the results.

View attachment 347477

Pretty simple really. If one looks at the blue bars in the top chart the area still has not reached the building peak of 2005. My rough count is that since the peak of 2005 there are about 125,000 missing houses in the area. Newer neighborhoods typically turn over at 10% a year meaning there are 12,500 houses a year not available for sale because they were never built…

Inflation from 2006 to 2024:

• Cumulative price change: 54.93%
• Average inflation rate: 2.46%
• Converted amount ($1 base): $1.55
• Price difference ($1 base): $0.55
• CPI in 2006: 201.600
• CPI in 2024: 312.332
• Inflation in 2006: 3.23%
• Inflation in 2024: 3.48%
• $1 in 2006: $1.55 in 2024

Mind you those numbers are using official government inflation figures.
Which has more impact supply or what it is priced in? In short if your house is not worth 55% more since 2006 it lost value(based on government numbers).