Hamas Launches Infiltration, Rocket Attack on Israel

[KG1]

They're too stupid to know that Hamas would have them executed for being "queer".

Yeah. Why don't you go over there and march around with your banner.

 

[Shadow01]

Level every standing structure in gaza, let them rebuild the dust for 20 years, when they poke their head out, level it again.
Rinse and repeat.

We should lease 2 dozen B-52s to Israel and they can carpet bomb gaza from east to west and then refuel and reload. Keep it up for 2 weeks around the clock. Have a controlled delay of 24 hours to see if they will wave the white flag then if not start again until there are none left or they run out of bombs to load on the 52s.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

We should lease 2 dozen B-52s to Israel and they can carpet bomb gaza from east to west and then refuel and reload. Keep it up for 2 weeks around the clock. Have a controlled delay of 24 hours to see if they will wave the white flag Then if not start again until there are none left or they run out of bombs to load on the 52s.

FIFY...

 

[Creedmoor]

All I got was a page that said “oops, you violated twitter rules and you can’t log in for another 20 hrs.”

Hang down your head in shame Tom Dooley.

 

[KG1]

I saw a photo of the deceased Che last night during a show about Cuba and it made me smile.

That would make a good T-shirt.

 

[STFU]

(Yeah, I know this is long...read it, don't read it. Your choice.)

All, I am brain-dumping this out now while it is still fresh in my head. Mostly for my family, but also because it is somewhat cathartic for me. The last 72 hours seem very surreal.

My current job takes me to Israel 4-6 times a year.

Last Friday, 06 OCT 2023, I was on Air Canada #8281 from Toronto (YYZ) to Tel Aviv (TLV). That flight was scheduled to arrive in TLV at 10:05 on SAT 07 OCT 2023.

Approximately 90 minutes before landing (~08:30) the pilot announced that a “Security Event” had occurred in southern Israel but that he had not been directed to divert at that time. He further indicated he would keep us updated if that changed. (Later I would find out this “security event” was the attack on the Supernova Music festival where Hamas killed hundreds of innocent civilians by paragliding into the crowds and opening fire.)

We landed in TLV as scheduled. To be clear, we landed a couple of hours after the first attacks had happened.

Upon arrival at TLV, everything seemed to be BAU. I cleared Customs in less than 20 minutes with no questions other than: “Why are you here?” and “How long will you be here?”

I hailed a Gett (IL’s version of Uber) and proceeded to the hotel. I noticed that the highways were very deserted (even more than usual for Shabbat). We did pass through one checkpoint along the way where the traffic was all forced into a single lane using police cars and spike strips. The police were looking into each vehicle that passed by, but they were not stopping anyone. The Gett to the hotel was 153.45ILS (~$39.86). This is important for later.

I checked in at the hotel around 11:30. I dropped my bags in my room and went back down to breakfast in the dining room. Again, everything seemed somewhat normal with the exception of everyone staring at their phones.

I went to my room and started to unwind a bit. I stretched out on the bed for a few minutes and took a short nap. I awoke to a text from my VP @ 13:45 stating that the trip was cancelled and not to go to IL. I replied with: “Too late…already here.” He replied to leave ASAP before the airport closes.

I then realized that my colleague was sending me messages on What’sApp from his flight that was about to land. He indicated that their pilot told them there was a “big problem” and not to leave the airport. He indicated that he would be booking a flight back ASAP and I should get there ASAP.

I jumped on our corporate travel site and found an available flight back to DC on Turkish Airways via Istanbul and booked a seat. I took a quick shower, dressed, repacked my bag, checked out, and hailed a Gett back to the airport.

The Gett back to the airport (4 hours later) was 350ILS (~$91.00). I knew this was getting uglier by the minute. There is a security gate on the way to the airport property. Normally they waive the taxis/Gett drivers through without a stop. Not this time. The guard was demanding papers from the Gett driver as well as my passport and my boarding pass to get through.

Interestingly, the driver canceled the ride on the Gett app, asked me for a credit card, charged me, refused to give me a receipt, and drove off. WTAH? Dude was not sticking around.

Time is now close to 19:00 local time. I met with my colleague (whose flight arrived a few hours after mine did) in the main food court at the airport and had some dinner. (Only McDonald's and a German restaurant was open. German food it is!) My colleague and sat I speculated on whether our flights would actually go out at their scheduled times: 23:50 for his and 00:50 for mine.

I had just finished my food when we heard very low rumblings in the distance. Gaza city is about 43 miles to the south of the Ben Gurion airport. Too far away to hear those rockets but…it was then I noticed everyone in the terminal behind us was running towards the shelters. We did not push our chairs in when we bolted from the table. What heard was an incoming rocket attack and the “Iron Dome” doing its job. We stayed in the shelter for about 10-15 minutes before getting the all clear from the airport security staff.

Shortly after that rocket attack, I received a text from Turkish Airways indicating that my flight had been delayed until late Sunday afternoon. Not good. I pulled out my phone and started looking for other flights on the United app. Strangely enough, there was a flight that had not shown up previously when I searched. That flight had only three Business Class seats available back to IAD (Dulles) for $9600/each. To be clear, that is $9600 one-way! I called my VP and explained that my flight was VERY delayed, quickly got approval to buy the seat, and get out! Fortunately Amex approved the purchase with zero delay and I had a seat to leave at 00:20!

We had several more visits to the shelters over the next few hours.

My colleague’s flight started boarding 30 minutes late as the crew had not yet arrived. (His flight was leaving gate B7 and mine was leaving from gate B9.)

While waiting to board my flight, I noticed a large number of crew going down the jet-way onto out aircraft. Way more than usual. I lost count after 75 or so. Some in uniform, some not, and some were kids! I thought that to be very odd at the time.

We finally started boarding at about the time we were supposed to be leaving. As the last passengers were coming on board, the pilot made an announcement: “Folks, I don’t want to alarm you anymore than you already are but we have a tight window to get out. Please stow your bags and get seated. If we do not leave in the next 10 minutes, the tower will “ground us” and we will not be able to leave! Needless to say, everyone jumped into overdrive. The aircraft was 100% full.

Within a few minutes the jet-way was pulled back and we were pushing off from the gate. My colleague’s flight pushed back at the same time.

There was no delay getting to the runway and we never stopped rolling. The pilot put the throttles down and we were off into a very steep climb. I travel a great deal and this was one of the steepest climb outs I have been on. I had the flight info up on the display screen and I could see that we were going just shy of 500mph by the time we were 4,000 feet off the deck!

I switched to the in-flight GPS maps and watched our flight path out. We took off headed due east towards the West Bank area. Once we were north of Jerusalem, we turned and headed due north towards Nazareth. At Nazareth we turned due west and headed out over the Mediterranean Sea…towards home!

The crew made a brief announcement that they had enough dinners to go around but they did not have time to load any breakfast items…not even coffee. (Have you had airline coffee? Yeah, not missing anything there.)

The flight coming back was just over 12 hours and uneventful otherwise. (The way it should be.)

Upon landing, the pilot made a rather heartfelt announcement to everyone explaining several things that had transpired to make this happen:

1. The plane we were on, was not supposed to be in Tel Aviv. This aircraft was actually from another inbound flight that had been diverted to drop the passengers somewhere safe (Athens IIRC).
   
   
2. He thanked the inbound crew, who after dropping the passengers, jumped back in their seats and delivered that 787 to Tel Aviv on what they deemed as a “rescue mission.” United’s goal was to take as many US based airline crew out of Israel as they could and then sell the remaining seats. He let us know that there were approximately 40ish United crew, about 20ish Delta Airlines crew, and about 20ish American Airlines crew on board…along with any of their family members that had been in the area.
   
   
3. He then said he was flying on the day of 9/11. He indicated that he had not seen this kind of collaboration and teamwork since then. He was very grateful that they able to in and get everyone they could out.

I was on THIS flight:
https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/...-help-evacuate-crew-out-of-israel-union-says/

My colleague and I were on the last flights out...

While the pilot was making his announcement, I was getting a barrage of text messages from Turkish Airways. The messages were all “Flight Delay” messages except for the last one…it was a “Flight Cancellation” message.

This morning (Monday 09 OCT 2023), I received a text message from Lufthansa indicating that my original return flight, scheduled to leave this coming Thursday, had also been canceled.

As of now, there are no US flights going in or out of that area.

In short, if my company had not picked up that seat for me…I would still be there and trying to get to the embassy. I got very lucky to get out when I did and I am very happy to be back on US soil.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

(Yeah, I know this is long...read it, don't read it. Your choice.)

All, I am brain-dumping this out now while it is still fresh in my head. Mostly for my family, but also because it is somewhat cathartic for me. The last 72 hours seem very surreal.

My current job takes me to Israel 4-6 times a year.

Last Friday, 06 OCT 2023, I was on Air Canada #8281 from Toronto (YYZ) to Tel Aviv (TLV). That flight was scheduled to arrive in TLV at 10:05 on SAT 07 OCT 2023.

Approximately 90 minutes before landing (~08:30) the pilot announced that a “Security Event” had occurred in southern Israel but that he had not been directed to divert at that time. He further indicated he would keep us updated if that changed. (Later I would find out this “security event” was the attack on the Supernova Music festival where Hamas killed hundreds of innocent civilians by paragliding into the crowds and opening fire.)

We landed in TLV as scheduled. To be clear, we landed a couple of hours after the first attacks had happened.

Upon arrival at TLV, everything seemed to be BAU. I cleared Customs in less than 20 minutes with no questions other than: “Why are you here?” and “How long will you be here?”

I hailed a Gett (IL’s version of Uber) and proceeded to the hotel. I noticed that the highways were very deserted (even more than usual for Shabbat). We did pass through one checkpoint along the way where the traffic was all forced into a single lane using police cars and spike strips. The police were looking into each vehicle that passed by, but they were not stopping anyone. The Gett to the hotel was 153.45ILS (~$39.86). This is important for later.

I checked in at the hotel around 11:30. I dropped my bags in my room and went back down to breakfast in the dining room. Again, everything seemed somewhat normal with the exception of everyone staring at their phones.

I went to my room and started to unwind a bit. I stretched out on the bed for a few minutes and took a short nap. I awoke to a text from my VP @ 13:45 stating that the trip was cancelled and not to go to IL. I replied with: “Too late…already here.” He replied to leave ASAP before the airport closes.

I then realized that my colleague was sending me messages on What’sApp from his flight that was about to land. He indicated that their pilot told them there was a “big problem” and not to leave the airport. He indicated that he would be booking a flight back ASAP and I should get there ASAP.

I jumped on our corporate travel site and found an available flight back to DC on Turkish Airways via Istanbul and booked a seat. I took a quick shower, dressed, repacked my bag, checked out, and hailed a Gett back to the airport.

The Gett back to the airport (4 hours later) was 350ILS (~$91.00). I knew this was getting uglier by the minute. There is a security gate on the way to the airport property. Normally they waive the taxis/Gett drivers through without a stop. Not this time. The guard was demanding papers from the Gett driver as well as my passport and my boarding pass to get through.

Interestingly, the driver canceled the ride on the Gett app, asked me for a credit card, charged me, refused to give me a receipt, and drove off. WTAH? Dude was not sticking around.

Time is now close to 19:00 local time. I met with my colleague (whose flight arrived a few hours after mine did) in the main food court at the airport and had some dinner. (Only McDonald's and a German restaurant was open. German food it is!) My colleague and sat I speculated on whether our flights would actually go out at their scheduled times: 23:50 for his and 00:50 for mine.

I had just finished my food when we heard very low rumblings in the distance. Gaza city is about 43 miles to the south of the Ben Gurion airport. Too far away to hear those rockets but…it was then I noticed everyone in the terminal behind us was running towards the shelters. We did not push our chairs in when we bolted from the table. What heard was an incoming rocket attack and the “Iron Dome” doing its job. We stayed in the shelter for about 10-15 minutes before getting the all clear from the airport security staff.

Shortly after that rocket attack, I received a text from Turkish Airways indicating that my flight had been delayed until late Sunday afternoon. Not good. I pulled out my phone and started looking for other flights on the United app. Strangely enough, there was a flight that had not shown up previously when I searched. That flight had only three Business Class seats available back to IAD (Dulles) for $9600/each. To be clear, that is $9600 one-way! I called my VP and explained that my flight was VERY delayed, quickly got approval to buy the seat, and get out! Fortunately Amex approved the purchase with zero delay and I had a seat to leave at 00:20!

We had several more visits to the shelters over the next few hours.

My colleague’s flight started boarding 30 minutes late as the crew had not yet arrived. (His flight was leaving gate B7 and mine was leaving from gate B9.)

While waiting to board my flight, I noticed a large number of crew going down the jet-way onto out aircraft. Way more than usual. I lost count after 75 or so. Some in uniform, some not, and some were kids! I thought that to be very odd at the time.

We finally started boarding at about the time we were supposed to be leaving. As the last passengers were coming on board, the pilot made an announcement: “Folks, I don’t want to alarm you anymore than you already are but we have a tight window to get out. Please stow your bags and get seated. If we do not leave in the next 10 minutes, the tower will “ground us” and we will not be able to leave! Needless to say, everyone jumped into overdrive. The aircraft was 100% full.

Within a few minutes the jet-way was pulled back and we were pushing off from the gate. My colleague’s flight pushed back at the same time.

There was no delay getting to the runway and we never stopped rolling. The pilot put the throttles down and we were off into a very steep climb. I travel a great deal and this was one of the steepest climb outs I have been on. I had the flight info up on the display screen and I could see that we were going just shy of 500mph by the time we were 4,000 feet off the deck!

I switched to the in-flight GPS maps and watched our flight path out. We took off headed due east towards the West Bank area. Once we were north of Jerusalem, we turned and headed due north towards Nazareth. At Nazareth we turned due west and headed out over the Mediterranean Sea…towards home!

The crew made a brief announcement that they had enough dinners to go around but they did not have time to load any breakfast items…not even coffee. (Have you had airline coffee? Yeah, not missing anything there.)

The flight coming back was just over 12 hours and uneventful otherwise. (The way it should be.)

Upon landing, the pilot made a rather heartfelt announcement to everyone explaining several things that had transpired to make this happen:

The plane we were on, was not supposed to be in Tel Aviv. This aircraft was actually from another inbound flight that had been diverted to drop the passengers somewhere safe (Athens IIRC).

He thanked the inbound crew, who after dropping the passengers, jumped back in their seats and delivered that 787 to Tel Aviv on what they deemed as a “rescue mission.” United’s goal was to take as many US based airline crew out of Israel as they could and then sell the remaining seats. He let us know that there were approximately 40ish United crew, about 20ish Delta Airlines crew, and about 20ish American Airlines crew on board…along with any of their family members that had been in the area.

He then said he was flying on the day of 9/11. He indicated that he had not seen this kind of collaboration and teamwork since then. He was very grateful that they able to in and get everyone they could out.

I was on THIS flight:

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/...-help-evacuate-crew-out-of-israel-union-says/

My colleague and I were on the last flights out...

While the pilot was making his announcement, I was getting a barrage of text messages from Turkish Airways. The messages were all “Flight Delay” messages except for the last one…it was a “Flight Cancellation” message.

This morning (Monday 09 OCT 2023), I received a text message from Lufthansa indicating that my original return flight, scheduled to leave this coming Thursday, had also been canceled.

As of now, there are no US flights going in or out of that area.

In short, if my company had not picked up that seat for me…I would still be there and trying to get to the embassy. I got very lucky to get out when I did and I am very happy to be back on US soil.

Holy crap! Glad you made it out safely STFU! That had to be nerve-wracking!

 

[Noble Sniper]

Glad you found a bird home…. Reading this made me message a good friend of mine about his wife. She has to go to an Israel for business few times a year…. Hoping she wasn’t there!!

 

[spencer rifle]

Why do you limit yourself to the New Testament? Christians claim the OT also.

You can say the same thing about Muslims. nominal Muslims probably don't know their book any better.

The Old Testament was fulfilled. Otherwise we'd be avoiding cloth made of more that one fiber, and menstruating women.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The Old Testament was fulfilled. Otherwise we'd be avoiding cloth made of more that one fiber, and menstruating women.

Well, I still avoid menstruating women. Thankfully DoggyMama no longer has to worry about that.

 

[Twangbanger]

Boarding a commercial flight into skies filled with rocket attacks is not my idea of a vacay!

 

[DadSmith]

Level every standing structure in gaza, let them rebuild the dust for 20 years, when they poke their head out, level it again.
Rinse and repeat.

Or level it and rebuild and fill with Israelis.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Priorities.

 

[K_W]

Israel is going to wipe the floor with Gaza.

Biden will merely release a statement.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

it’s a mystery.

 

[Ziggidy]

"When" (not if) something happens here, large scale or small & the masses turn on the D's & libs that have celebrated this kind of behavour & brought this upon us.

There will be those (on INGO as well) that will claim that Trump (or whoever is the leading favorate) was hoping for something like this to get them into power. There are some that see the big picture & know what is coming based on history, current events & ideology.

And when that time comes (and it will) friendships will be negated and replaced with ideologies. Friends and family will defend what they feel is right, placing ideologies above anything else. My God and faith in Jesus comes before anyone. I will not be an aggressor of such a fight but I will defend my Christian family and friends against all who attacks us.

There will come a time. I pray not in our lifetime. I may lose the battle but the victory is already won.

 

[Ziggidy]

Yep. These clowns keep protest gear like we keep ammo. Never know when you are going to need it.

Allegedly this was a surprise attack but all the protesters appear to have professionally made signs and organized the protests within 24 hours.

Some one knew.

 

[Ziggidy]

(Yeah, I know this is long...read it, don't read it. Your choice.)

All, I am brain-dumping this out now while it is still fresh in my head. Mostly for my family, but also because it is somewhat cathartic for me. The last 72 hours seem very surreal.

My current job takes me to Israel 4-6 times a year.

Last Friday, 06 OCT 2023, I was on Air Canada #8281 from Toronto (YYZ) to Tel Aviv (TLV). That flight was scheduled to arrive in TLV at 10:05 on SAT 07 OCT 2023.

Approximately 90 minutes before landing (~08:30) the pilot announced that a “Security Event” had occurred in southern Israel but that he had not been directed to divert at that time. He further indicated he would keep us updated if that changed. (Later I would find out this “security event” was the attack on the Supernova Music festival where Hamas killed hundreds of innocent civilians by paragliding into the crowds and opening fire.)

We landed in TLV as scheduled. To be clear, we landed a couple of hours after the first attacks had happened.

Upon arrival at TLV, everything seemed to be BAU. I cleared Customs in less than 20 minutes with no questions other than: “Why are you here?” and “How long will you be here?”

I hailed a Gett (IL’s version of Uber) and proceeded to the hotel. I noticed that the highways were very deserted (even more than usual for Shabbat). We did pass through one checkpoint along the way where the traffic was all forced into a single lane using police cars and spike strips. The police were looking into each vehicle that passed by, but they were not stopping anyone. The Gett to the hotel was 153.45ILS (~$39.86). This is important for later.

I checked in at the hotel around 11:30. I dropped my bags in my room and went back down to breakfast in the dining room. Again, everything seemed somewhat normal with the exception of everyone staring at their phones.

I went to my room and started to unwind a bit. I stretched out on the bed for a few minutes and took a short nap. I awoke to a text from my VP @ 13:45 stating that the trip was cancelled and not to go to IL. I replied with: “Too late…already here.” He replied to leave ASAP before the airport closes.

I then realized that my colleague was sending me messages on What’sApp from his flight that was about to land. He indicated that their pilot told them there was a “big problem” and not to leave the airport. He indicated that he would be booking a flight back ASAP and I should get there ASAP.

I jumped on our corporate travel site and found an available flight back to DC on Turkish Airways via Istanbul and booked a seat. I took a quick shower, dressed, repacked my bag, checked out, and hailed a Gett back to the airport.

The Gett back to the airport (4 hours later) was 350ILS (~$91.00). I knew this was getting uglier by the minute. There is a security gate on the way to the airport property. Normally they waive the taxis/Gett drivers through without a stop. Not this time. The guard was demanding papers from the Gett driver as well as my passport and my boarding pass to get through.

Interestingly, the driver canceled the ride on the Gett app, asked me for a credit card, charged me, refused to give me a receipt, and drove off. WTAH? Dude was not sticking around.

Time is now close to 19:00 local time. I met with my colleague (whose flight arrived a few hours after mine did) in the main food court at the airport and had some dinner. (Only McDonald's and a German restaurant was open. German food it is!) My colleague and sat I speculated on whether our flights would actually go out at their scheduled times: 23:50 for his and 00:50 for mine.

I had just finished my food when we heard very low rumblings in the distance. Gaza city is about 43 miles to the south of the Ben Gurion airport. Too far away to hear those rockets but…it was then I noticed everyone in the terminal behind us was running towards the shelters. We did not push our chairs in when we bolted from the table. What heard was an incoming rocket attack and the “Iron Dome” doing its job. We stayed in the shelter for about 10-15 minutes before getting the all clear from the airport security staff.

Shortly after that rocket attack, I received a text from Turkish Airways indicating that my flight had been delayed until late Sunday afternoon. Not good. I pulled out my phone and started looking for other flights on the United app. Strangely enough, there was a flight that had not shown up previously when I searched. That flight had only three Business Class seats available back to IAD (Dulles) for $9600/each. To be clear, that is $9600 one-way! I called my VP and explained that my flight was VERY delayed, quickly got approval to buy the seat, and get out! Fortunately Amex approved the purchase with zero delay and I had a seat to leave at 00:20!

We had several more visits to the shelters over the next few hours.

My colleague’s flight started boarding 30 minutes late as the crew had not yet arrived. (His flight was leaving gate B7 and mine was leaving from gate B9.)

While waiting to board my flight, I noticed a large number of crew going down the jet-way onto out aircraft. Way more than usual. I lost count after 75 or so. Some in uniform, some not, and some were kids! I thought that to be very odd at the time.

We finally started boarding at about the time we were supposed to be leaving. As the last passengers were coming on board, the pilot made an announcement: “Folks, I don’t want to alarm you anymore than you already are but we have a tight window to get out. Please stow your bags and get seated. If we do not leave in the next 10 minutes, the tower will “ground us” and we will not be able to leave! Needless to say, everyone jumped into overdrive. The aircraft was 100% full.

Within a few minutes the jet-way was pulled back and we were pushing off from the gate. My colleague’s flight pushed back at the same time.

There was no delay getting to the runway and we never stopped rolling. The pilot put the throttles down and we were off into a very steep climb. I travel a great deal and this was one of the steepest climb outs I have been on. I had the flight info up on the display screen and I could see that we were going just shy of 500mph by the time we were 4,000 feet off the deck!

I switched to the in-flight GPS maps and watched our flight path out. We took off headed due east towards the West Bank area. Once we were north of Jerusalem, we turned and headed due north towards Nazareth. At Nazareth we turned due west and headed out over the Mediterranean Sea…towards home!

The crew made a brief announcement that they had enough dinners to go around but they did not have time to load any breakfast items…not even coffee. (Have you had airline coffee? Yeah, not missing anything there.)

The flight coming back was just over 12 hours and uneventful otherwise. (The way it should be.)

Upon landing, the pilot made a rather heartfelt announcement to everyone explaining several things that had transpired to make this happen:

The plane we were on, was not supposed to be in Tel Aviv. This aircraft was actually from another inbound flight that had been diverted to drop the passengers somewhere safe (Athens IIRC).

He thanked the inbound crew, who after dropping the passengers, jumped back in their seats and delivered that 787 to Tel Aviv on what they deemed as a “rescue mission.” United’s goal was to take as many US based airline crew out of Israel as they could and then sell the remaining seats. He let us know that there were approximately 40ish United crew, about 20ish Delta Airlines crew, and about 20ish American Airlines crew on board…along with any of their family members that had been in the area.

He then said he was flying on the day of 9/11. He indicated that he had not seen this kind of collaboration and teamwork since then. He was very grateful that they able to in and get everyone they could out.

I was on THIS flight:

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/...-help-evacuate-crew-out-of-israel-union-says/

My colleague and I were on the last flights out...

While the pilot was making his announcement, I was getting a barrage of text messages from Turkish Airways. The messages were all “Flight Delay” messages except for the last one…it was a “Flight Cancellation” message.

This morning (Monday 09 OCT 2023), I received a text message from Lufthansa indicating that my original return flight, scheduled to leave this coming Thursday, had also been canceled.

As of now, there are no US flights going in or out of that area.

In short, if my company had not picked up that seat for me…I would still be there and trying to get to the embassy. I got very lucky to get out when I did and I am very happy to be back on US soil.

Praise God you were able to get out safely.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

These things seem to becoming common.