Does this explain why we're suddenly hip deep in SoyBois and betas?

[BehindBlueI's]

Have you ever even read on this?

The bio-chemistry stuff? Not much, don't care. The pscyhology/decison making/behavioral economics aspects of it? Yes. A lot. Which is why I know:

This has nothing to do with money and it itself is not attractive. Look at how many marry for money only to cheat to get satisfaction…

Is certainly not in line with the vast majority of decision making research. A very quick example: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.00462/full but that's just something that came up quickly. There are studies that show certain levels of income required to overcome friction sources like interracial coupling, interreligious coupling, etc. As far as your cheating thing, I can assure you poor people screw around on poor people and then fight about it with great frequency. There's no lock on infidelty by any socio-economic group.

 

[CindyE]

How would you know? What evidence would we see in our friends to validate this or debunk it? I believe testing was done where where women not on the pill were asked to select from photos the men they were attracted to. Then women on the pill were asked the same. The two groups selected very different men.

It would be impossible to know what man your friends may have chosen if they were not on the pill when they selected their mate.

But the men they chose while on the pill are not soybois. I don't know.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm not saying I have personally seen evidence of it, either. I grew up at a time when it represented maximal awesomeness - the ability to 'sow wild oats' with almost zero chance that they would take root

I just can't fathom how we got from real men to dress-wearing, soy latte sipping wearers of the man bun in two generations if the pursuit of getting laid isn't part of it, so the idea that evolutionary pressures have something to do with it appeals because it should have taken a powerful mechanism to achieve what has happened

 

[jamil]

It is complicated but you are missing pieces here. It is not just affecting the females, the pills women take affect men too. Did you see the lap dance post above. It is real.

As for the lower testosterone levels there is compelling research that points to a lot of modern technology affecting testosterone levels in both sexes. EMF is one, blue light after dark is another because both disrupt melatonin production which triggers testosterone production.

Which supports that attraction is a complicated thing. It’s just not gonna be an uncomplicated answer no matter how much we might want to malign the newer social institutions that have or are taking over. That’s not an acceptance of those social institutions. It’s an acknowledgment that we can’t just pick one and point fingers at it for causing whatever ills we’ve noticed.

 

[ancjr]

Yeah, Cary Grant didn't live long enough to populate 2022.

 

[jamil]

I mean. Seriously. How many women are seriously attracted to the one on the right? I’d really like to know. Maybe some. I’d hope they’d have to pay that person a lot of money to dress like that. And if they don’t, I’m not real confident he’d be attracted to women anyway.

 

[actaeon277]

I mean. Seriously. How many women are seriously attracted to the one on the left? I’d really like to know. Maybe some. I’d hope they’d have to pay that person a lot of money to dress like that. And if they don’t, I’m not real confident he’d be attracted to women anyway.

On the LEFT?

I think women still find Cary Grant attractive.

 

[jamil]

On the LEFT?

I think women still find Cary Grant attractive.

Not long ago someone posted something about lefty women being pissed that the men they’re attracted to tend to be Republicans. If the primary attraction for lefty women were betas, then Republicans would tend to be betas.

But, I do suspect that even lefty women today would tend to be more attracted to Cary Grant than that dress wearing whatever.

 

[actaeon277]

How many women are seriously attracted to the one on the left?

was that a mistype?

 

[jamil]

was that a mistype?

Yes it was. I fixed it. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[BugI02]

They'll promise anything.

Especially when the Father of Lies is their CEO

 

[actaeon277]

I thought so, by your reply in #108

 

[jamil]

I thought so, by your reply in #108

When you said “LEFT” I thought you meant ideologically left. I thought that was an interesting question.

 

[BugI02]

Does the pill increase decrease testosterone levels in women?

Given that the small amount of testosterone that women make is completely overwhelmed by their level of estrogen, such that it has no observable effects on behavior until after menopause, I would tend to believe the pill neither increases nor decreases that level but rather maintains a high level of masking

 

[BigRed]

English cigarettes are everywhere.

 

[Twangbanger]

So...what are we saying?

"Real" men can't find mates and don't have kids?

Less masculine men...whatever you call them didn't have kids before the pill?

Less masculine men have boys who are less masculine?

"Real" men never have less masculine boys?

I couldn't be anything like $$ follows less physical occupations than it did 80 years ago.

I'd love to see some actual research. I'm open minded.

This aligns with my thinking on the thread. I think maybe people need to begin by defining what is meant by the terms they're using.

Is a "soyboi" or "beta" defined as any man who subscribes to liberal views? Do they actually have to be vegan?

Does a "man-bun" garner a nerdy app developer who makes big bucks and provides for his family a place in the definition?

Is a strong manly-man who drives a big truck, lives in timbuktu and works construction 2 months a year, but lives off his girlfriend the rest of the time and has fathered children with multiple baby mommas, outside the boundaries of the definition?

Good-for-nothing men come in all shapes, sizes, and zip codes. This has real possibilities and Enquiring Minds want to know...

 

[BugI02]

Aren't most women attracted to wallets? Anybody seen Bezo's current woman? Is he alpha or beta? Is she on the pill? I don't know but I'm sure he has one heck of an attractive wallet. Pheromones might be a real thing, but there are obvious workarounds; like a corvette. Or, I suppose, hanging around until closing time and then hoping she's on the pill.

Rich, homely men with hot women IMO is less about love and more of a business transaction

Sort of like Elliot Spitzer and Ashley Dupré, except they're married to the call girl and it costs much, much more to change partners

$36 billion to give MacKenzie Bezos the shove, $60+ billion to send Melinda Gates packing​

At the $10000 per Bunga Bunga weekend that Spitzer was paying, Bill Gates (66) and Jeff Bezos (58) could have been banging every weekend till their end of days for an infinitesimal fraction of what their divorces cost

I think the ultra rich get married to seem more like normal people

​

 

[Brad69]

Did we just discuss lap dancers riding mensural cycles?

 

[Ingomike]

Smokey bar? You got a time machine or live on another planet?

They do still exist in places…

 

[ancjr]

They do still exist in places…

Kazakhstan?