Carrying in Broad Ripple (Indy), GIMP Encounter

[Bill of Rights]

My original impulse is to respond to the section I highlighted in red above with a succint, "Bullsh**." Then I realized I was in a mood, so I'm not going to just type, "Bullsh**," and move to the next topic.

Instead, I shall say:

I disagree with you. You are inherently wrong.

There is a law on the books that, while IMHO is repugnant to the Constitution and therefore null and void, mandates that if one carries a firearm and does so not on his/her own property, s/he must have a LTCH or be a LEO (or any of the other exceptions). Since that law, unlike the one in Speedway, is being enforced, carrying that firearm without a valid LTCH on his person would have been a violation. By that logic, yes, the officer would have been remiss to not check. By the same logic, the officer is remiss to not be stopping every single driver in or on a vehicle that requires a driver license and verifying that said driver is in possession of a valid driver license. To not do so clearly shows his bias against law-abiding gun owners.

All of this said, I agree with Rhino, who did not say "Bullsh**."

Very well not said, Rhino. Reps to you. (edit: as soon as the system allows me to rep you again)

Blessings,
B

 

[indyjoe]

After providing License and LTCH, I would ask: Am I free to go? When they ask for my weapon, I would state: You examining my weapon means that I am being detained. For what am I being detained?

 

[Prometheus]

After providing License and LTCH, I would ask: Am I free to go? When they ask for my weapon, I would state: You examining my weapon means that I am being detained. For what am I being detained?

"Am I free to go?"

If the answer is no...

"On what grounds am I being detained?"

Something better?

Honestly nothing pisses me off more than hearing about someone being hassled like Kirk was.

Asking for a license may or may not be justified, IMO in most cases it's not justified for the same reason a cop can't pull someone over for lawfully operating a motor vehicle just to see there license.

Once he got the license that should have been the end of it.

File a formal complaint.

Even if they don't rule against him it goes in the permanent file and when it comes time for raises or promotions he might get passed up.

Should he get into it with someone else a "history of complaints" will really help them out.

Let these punks know we won't let harassment go unanswered.

 

[ryanmercer]

Actually, Ryan... I think that's what would make that law still valid. Laws in place prior to pre-emption can stand, it's only those after it went on the books that are invalid.

Whether or not they choose to enforce it is another matter entirely.

Blessings,
B

Not so sure... there are a handful of places that have prohibition laws on the books... but they aren't valid... and they were on the books before national prohibition and it's removal.

 

[agentl074]

You conducted yourself more professionally than the officer! You handled yourself with tact! The officer was clearly looking to intimidate and find any kind of dirt on you.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Not so sure... there are a handful of places that have prohibition laws on the books... but they aren't valid... and they were on the books before national prohibition and it's removal.

We aren't talking about alcohol Prohibition, though, Ryan. For comparison's sake, though, here are the 18th and 21st Amendments:

Amendment [XVIII.]
Section. 1. After one year from the ratification of this article
the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within,
the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United
States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for
beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.
Sec. 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Sec. 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have
been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of
the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years
from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.

Amendment [XXI.]
Section. 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the
Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
Sec. 2. The transportation or importation into any State,
Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use
therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is
hereby prohibited.
Sec. 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have
been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by conventions in the
several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from
the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.

The 21A outright repealed the 18A. No ifs, ands, or buts. In contrast, see below:


IC 35-47-11-1

IC 35-47-11-1
Applicability of chapter
Sec. 1. (a) Section 2 of this chapter applies to all units (as defined in IC 36-1-2-23). All other sections of this chapter apply to all units other than townships.
(b) This chapter applies only if a statute expressly grants a legislative body the authority to adopt an emergency ordinance under this chapter.
(c) This chapter does not affect the validity of an ordinance adopted before, and in effect on, January 1, 1994.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13.
IC 35-47-11-2
Regulation of firearms by units other than townships
Sec. 2. Notwithstanding IC 36-1-3, a unit may not regulate in any manner the ownership, possession, sale, transfer, or transportation of firearms (as defined in IC 35-47-1-5) or ammunition except as follows:
(1) This chapter does not apply to land, buildings, or other real property owned or administered by a unit, except highways (as defined in IC 8-23-1-23) or public highways (as defined in IC 8-2.1-17-14).
(2) Notwithstanding the limitation in this section, a unit may use the unit's planning and zoning powers under IC 36-7-4 to prohibit the sale of firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school by a person having a business that did not sell firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school before April 1, 1994.
(3) Notwithstanding the limitation in this section, a legislative body of a unit other than a township may adopt an emergency ordinance or a unit other than a township may take other action allowed under section 6 of this chapter to regulate the sale of firearms anywhere within the unit for a period of not more than seventy-two (72) hours after the regulatory action takes effect.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.13.

The red highlighting is obviously mine. The statute, however, expressly "grandfathers" any law already in place in 1994. The Speedway statute was enacted in 1966, 28 years earlier, so as such, it's valid, just not enforced, kind of like "spitting on the sidewalk" ordinances.

IANAL, IDSIAHIELN, TINLA. If any lawyer would like to weigh in and confirm or correct any errors in my interpretation, I welcome the information and you have my thanks, in advance.

Blessings,
B

 

[rhino]

IC 35-47-11-1
The red highlighting is obviously mine. The statute, however, expressly "grandfathers" any law already in place in 1994. The Speedway statute was enacted in 1966, 28 years earlier, so as such, it's valid, just not enforced, kind of like "spitting on the sidewalk" ordinances.

He's been SERVED!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Opened carried into the same coffee shop Saturday, but no GIMPs about.

Before my friend and I went to the range, we hit Charlie Brown's again (it's becoming among her favorites for its committment to baconey goodness) and walked right by three GIMPs.

They were unimpressed and ignored me.

We got kicked off Eagle Creek at 1:30PM as GIMP Reserve had to qualify. As we were loading the SUV, a GIMPy, being friendly, said to us "did we kick you off the range?"

I replied that I was "not impressed." The snarky shot went over his head.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

1. I was not strapped like Rambo. I had no M60 or arrows with explosive heads. Besides, Sly does not guns, only his bodyguards carry.

I was merely exercising my civil right to carry a pistol. I was doing nothing that should draw attention from law enforcement much less have me treated to such a terrifying rant and anger control problem that I was subject to last Saturday (being hit with GIMP spittle was not high on my list either).

2. Take out all my subjective wording and what it gets down to is that I was illegally stopped for exercising a civil right.

Delete "carrying a pistol" for "being _____________ [insert ethnic ground of your choosing here]" and the city would explode in anger. We must work to ensure that if police stop citizens for merely exercising their civil rights, there must be severe legal consequences for the illegal behavior of the police.

3. We must work to ensure that the bad apples in GIMP like Officer Cowboy that stopped me are weeded out and sent to anger management before he is allowed find other employment.

4. The Speedway ordinance is valid and is not subject to preemption as it was enacted in 1966. The Speedway ordinance is rarely, if every, enforced; however, it's existence provides wonderful ammunition to those of us concerned with the right to open carry arms.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Thanks to everyone who called and wanted to ensure that I was O.K.

Considering the GIMP's rage and attitude, being spit upon and having a 1911 pointed at my leg was a fair trade for not having my nose bounced off the asphalt and having Officer Cowboy and Baby Huey Dutch pile me on 54th Street.

 

[bigcraig]

Kirk, I am without words.

You handled the situation better than I.

 

[rhino]

Kirk, if you like, I can wear black shirt and pants and tackle you when you're not expecting it. That way you won't miss the essence of the experience. I'll even spit on you while I spray you with the pepper spray to make it more authentic.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

In order to get the full GIMP experience, you and your brother need to tackle me, beat me with ASPs and yell out "I'm not impressed, stop resisting" as you are beating me within an inch of my life.

 

[Visionr40]

Where can a person find all the rules?

Irony Warning: My friend and I drive to Speedway (Charlie Brown's) for breakfast where I have to open carry. Speedway Town Code:

"9.08.020 Concealed unlawful.
It is unlawful for any individual to carry a concealed firearm within the town limits. (Ord. 358 § 2, 1966)."

.[/QUOTE]

Is there a central location for all the locations that have special rules that impact the ccw permit? I thought the reason for the state permit was to provide a standard.

 

[sjstill]

Oh, oh, oh, can I help??!!

Ya done good, Kirk. Likely better than I would have.

In order to get the full GIMP experience, you and your brother need to tackle me, beat me with ASPs and yell out "I'm not impressed, stop resisting" as you are beating me within an inch of my life.

 

[Prometheus]

In order to get the full GIMP experience, you and your brother need to tackle me, beat me with ASPs and yell out "I'm not impressed, stop resisting" as you are beating me within an inch of my life.

I call dibs on the taser!

 

[abnk]

Kirk, you should have thrown the glove and give him one week time to prepare.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I call dibs on the taser!

As the target?

 

[rhino]

In order to get the full GIMP experience, you and your brother need to tackle me, beat me with ASPs and yell out "I'm not impressed, stop resisting" as you are beating me within an inch of my life.

If you like, we'll wait until you're on your front porch and try to go back inside. We'll try to force our way inside, then when you try to close the door, we'll go berzerk!

 

[txgho1911]

Small pocket audio recording device. I forget mine elsewhere every time I really need one. Maybe I should wander through Broad Ripple on the bike open carry and stop in for some excellent coffee.