Carrying in Broad Ripple (Indy), GIMP Encounter

[rhino]

I'll start a topic for our next open carry gathering.

 

[bartonmd]

IMPD guy seems like quite a tool. Unfortunately, positions that involve having power over people sometimes attract people with inferiority complexes who like to drive fast and carry guns. It messes with their complex to think that they are not the only ones with guns, and it makes them absolutely insane when they can't provoke you into giving up (or letting them take) that power. It's like laughing at somebody who is angry at you... the angry person gets even more angry.

That's not to say that all cops are like this, or even the majority of them. I talk guns with quite a few cops who are cool, and my neighbor is a cop, and is very cool. The fact of the matter is, there are bad apples in every tree...

Mike

 

[snake-doctor]

Ditto. Most Indy police I've known or talked to are very positive toward private folks carrying.

 

[Metro 40]

.

 

[AFA1CY]

It was probably the buttered scones that set the officer off.... I guess the British still don't get it about donuts.

 

[Donnelly]

I wonder hpw the "GIMP" in question would have handled a request for one of his business cards. I have seen some officers carry around a few business cards with their contact information printed on it.

 

[NateIU10]

Kirk seems to always tell it straight, one of the only lawyers I "trust", albeit only knowing him from here and Glocktalk. And all that despite him being English

Well, I don't know the officer in question. Suffice it to say that there is a surprisingly small segment of the police department that really has any extensive knowledge of firearms in general. Most training is Glock/Remington 870 specific. Anyway, if the original poster is to be believed (and there are always 3 sides to every story), then the officer in question overreacted. Everybody with an LTCH has the right to carry openly, no matter how bad an idea it is, tactically speaking.

And as for a British guy skipping around Broad Ripple with a Les Baer in a custom leather rig and prattling on about "gimps"....well, that's why I don't visit Broad Ripple. Bunch of weirdos.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I wonder hpw the "GIMP" in question would have handled a request for one of his business cards. I have seen some officers carry around a few business cards with their contact information printed on it.

I wonder how the officer would have reacted at an offer to trade business cards!

Blessings,
B

 

[strongcrow]

I wonder how the officer would have reacted at an offer to trade business cards!

Blessings,
B

This would have been an excellent Idea Kirk. Trade cards with the "OFFICER" and then watch him sweat.....

 

[Metro 40]

.

 

[ryanmercer]

My second open carry encounter happened Saturday morning, October 11, 2008.:

Saturday morning I was down to see a friend and then take her shooting at Eagle Creek. About 7:45 AM I stopped by a coffee shop on 54th before I dropped by the house. I had on a University of Texas shirt, olive SIG Tac pants and low top Columbia hiking boots. I was carrying a Les Baer 1911 in a Milt Sparks #TK60 (horsehide) and a double mag pouch, my knife and flashlight were visible as well. As it was warm and I was just going across the street for coffee, I left my baja shirt off.

I walked into the shop and walked right by a GIMP without any consideration that I was in Indy. I saw a uniform and did not think I would be hassled as no one bats an eye up here and all the other times I have open carried in Indy, no cops, deputies, or state troopers have said "boo!" to me. This time was different.

I walk in, buy two small black coffees, and talk to the countergirl about movies (I told her we were going to see "Appaloosa" in the evening). I pay and turn around to leave.

Standing in front of the door is a GIMP who asks "Sir, do you have a permit (sic)?" I answer "yes" and keep walking.

"I need to see it." I stop.

I set the coffees down and fetch my wallet from my thigh pocket and hand him my pink card. Now he is angry. His face changes to one of near rage. I have a license and He obviously isn't used to this. He now demands my Operator's License, which I leave in the wallet open to and set it down in front of him.

I ask him why he is stopping me. He yells back "because you are carrying a gun!" His hands are now shaking.

Though clenched teeth he asks for my address in Lafayette, which I give. He asks where it is and I, thinking he may be familiar with Lafayette, tell him. "I don't care, you are trying to impress me!" You can see the steam coming out of his ears (I check out and now he must make a production out of it as he is trying to provoke me into yelling or arguing with him).

He calls me in to see if I am Signal 40 (wanted on warrants). It comes back negative. Now, he is stymied and I start the "Am I free to go bird" chatter.

Nope, he needs to check my pistol. At this point the pucker factor goes off the charts. The idea of cops handling guns around me terrifies me as they possess very low gun handling skills (as I general rule).

He reaches over and pulls my 1911. He looks at it like one of those apes from 2001. He moves the pistol left and right, pointing it at my leg.

"Officer, please don't point the gun at me."

"Hey, I don't know if you have a lot of experience with these matters, but I am pointing the gun down."

I say nothing and watch him try to cycle the slide (the manual safety is still on). He tries three times and then asks me how to unlock the slide. I tell him and the same time he discovers the thumb safety.

He unloads my pistol and then examines the ammunition.

"It's Black Hills +P with 230 grain Speer bullet."

"Look, you are trying to impress me and I not impressed with you."

I shut back up and he calls my pistol in to see if it is stolen (yeah, most criminals carry expensive 1911s in custom holsters openly). He describes it as a "Bear Custom".

At this point his back up arrives, a tall, doughy young guy and a short blonde female who stays in her vehicle on 54th. The young male officer stands in front of me with his hands on his belt, the female smiles at me. The pistols comes back negative.

He asks me if I walked here. I point to my SUV and say "that's my vehicle." He nows has my pistol and magazine and is REALLY, REALLY angry, visibly shaking with anger. Before I can start the "Am I free to go" chatter, he advising that he will place the pistol in my SUV.

Against my better judgment (this guy was angry, have I mentioned this?), I ask if he can load it and then put it back in my holster. "NO!" and I get hit with GIMP spittle.

"Can I load it in my SUV?"

"NO! I don't care where you load it, just don't do it here!" If there was any quasi-reason to bounce my face off the pavement and Dutch pile me with the other cop, he would have done it right there.

We walk to my SUV (I refrain from skipping). I open the back hatch and he stops with his mouth open when he sees the back of my SUV (rifle cases, ammo boxes and my big gray Waller range bag full of pistols).

"Ummm, er, you are loaded for bear."

"No, just going shooting."

He walks back to the coffee shop and I overhead him tell the other two GIMPs (the female is now out of the car), "he must think he is some kind of cowboy."

I wave good-bye and tell them "see you tomorrow. Have a nice day." I drive off around the corner and reload my weapon.

Irony Warning: My friend and I drive to Speedway (Charlie Brown's) for breakfast where I have to open carry. Speedway Town Code:

"9.08.020 Concealed unlawful.
It is unlawful for any individual to carry a concealed firearm within the town limits. (Ord. 358 § 2, 1966)."

In the parking lot of Charlie Brown's were four (4) GIMP cars and two (2) Speedway cops. As we exit the restaurant we walk right by a very large GIMP talking to Paramedics. He says nothing. We then go to the range where the range rules (set by GIMPs) forbid concealed carry.

Of course, if the GIMP in question believes that he can intimidate me into not carrying, he is mistaken. Conversely, he has inspired me to greater activism for my civil rights.

I harbor no hostility toward the GIMP in question. I know that cops are like everyone else--good days and bad days. Maybe he was just having a bad day, maybe his wife left him last week. Could have been anything. His John Wayne attitude and anger were unacceptable, but there is little I can do about this other than complain.

We need to work together to ensure that this sort of treatment is a thing of the past for Indiana Gun Owners and that our civil rights are respected. I shall redouble my efforts.

You do NOT have to pen carry in speedway, I live here< I don't... the law was made before the state carry laws.

 

[G McBride]

If you walk into a coffee shop looking like Rambo with a gun and a knife strapped on openly, even if you did have the expensive gun in a horse hide holster, the officer would be remiss if he did not ask to see your permit and ID. Once those were provided he should have gone no further. Well probably OK to check for outstanding warrants.

When you open carry you should expect that someone is going to say something and it is good to stay calm and collected through the whole situation.

 

[Tamara]

If you walk into a coffee shop looking like Rambo with a gun and a knife strapped on openly,

I don't think I'd call a pistol in a pancake holster being "strapped like Rambo".

Now, carrying a bunch of radios and tasers and OC cans and fifty-seven spare magazines all in ballistic nylon pouches? That would be "strapped like Rambo". (Or a suburban meter maid.)

the officer would be remiss if he did not ask to see your permit and ID.

Suppose the officer notices someone operating a motor vehicle. Should he prophylactically stop them and ask to see their permit? The subject in question was engaged in no articulable illegal activities nor was he behaving in any way suspiciously.

When you open carry you should expect that someone is going to say something and it is good to stay calm and collected through the whole situation.

This is truth. It's the main reason I own shoot-me vests. I'd happily bet $20 that the officer in question wouldn't have said "boo!" if you stood in front of him wearing a 5.11 vest with a Surefire hanging out of every pocket, even though that screams "GUN!" as loudly as the sight of a Les Baer to anydbody with enough cerebral activity to nudge an EKG.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You do NOT have to pen carry in speedway, I live here< I don't... the law was made before the state carry laws.

Actually, Ryan... I think that's what would make that law still valid. Laws in place prior to pre-emption can stand, it's only those after it went on the books that are invalid.

Whether or not they choose to enforce it is another matter entirely.

Blessings,
B

 

[Bubbajms]

Suffice it to say that there is a surprisingly small segment of the police department that really has any extensive knowledge of firearms in general. Most training is Glock/Remington 870 specific.

Very True. I've found (in general) that the closer you are to a large city, the less chance any given LEO will be a "firearms person". I know several in the Lafayette/West Lafayette area, and only one of them has what anybody would consider to be a collection of other firearms. Most of them have their duty handguns and a shotgun, but aside from collection guy not a single one of them hunts or does any other type of recreational shooting..

Most of the county guys way out where I am, though... different story!

 

[Pami]

I wonder how the officer would have reacted at an offer to trade business cards!

Blessings,
B

This would have been an excellent Idea Kirk. Trade cards with the "OFFICER" and then watch him sweat.....

My thoughts exactly. I kept thinking throughout the whole story, man, that dude really has no idea what kind of fire he's playing with.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Kirk, I remember you talking about that at the Creek on Saturday. Didnt know it was that invasive. I would be definitely talking to someone.

One word to the wise, this is why I dont open carry. I am not intending this to be an Open vs. Concealed arguement. I dont (seriously) have time to be harassed by the cops. Second, I think that he really was on to you because you seriously looked like you were a military contractor or something. You even have some stubble to gain pluses amoung the afghan tribesmen (, all in good fun!). But, appearance is a huge indicator of being harassed. Looking like an operator is functional, but a beacon to police for harassment (except for your orange shirt ).

All in all, jump on this opportunity to "get" them back. I would be asking for his super and then for that person's super. Go up the chain and give someone a reaming. Realistically, I would tell them that if they did their job, no one would have to carry a gun. Its a little brutal, yes, but a majority of the cops I've dealt with seem to be more interested in "high profile" crimes and harassing people than keeping the magic eye open for bad juju (DISCLAIMER, because SOMEONE will jump my ass about it, but NOT all police are like this, but quite a few that I've met and dealt with are). Heck, if he asked to "examine" my weapon, I would ask if I am being detained and that I would like to know the charge and have my rights read to me. Make a minor inconvienience to me a MAJOR job security issue to them later on. I personally believe that it should be very difficult for a police officer to harass me, rather than very easy for them to "let me go". If they want to detain me for even a second, then I want them to understand that I know my rights and let them understand and very damn well know what that entails if they give into their ego give in. Make it so that they cant even work unarmed warehouse security by the time you are done with the department. People that give into their egos or anger or paranoia as public security officers are going to get either themselves or someone innocent killed one day. People like that should be working at fast food instead of police work.

 

[rhino]

If you walk into a coffee shop looking like Rambo with a gun and a knife strapped on openly, even if you did have the expensive gun in a horse hide holster, the officer would be remiss if he did not ask to see your permit and ID. Once those were provided he should have gone no further. Well probably OK to check for outstanding warrants.

My original impulse is to respond to the section I highlighted in red above with a succint, "Bullsh**." Then I realized I was in a mood, so I'm not going to just type, "Bullsh**," and move to the next topic.

Instead, I shall say:

I disagree with you. You are inherently wrong.

 

[rhino]

You do NOT have to pen carry in speedway, I live here< I don't... the law was made before the state carry laws.

You don't "have" to carry openly in Speedway solely because the ordinance is not enforced (and probably couldn't be enforced on any practical level). The ordinance is entirely valid, however, as it predates the preemption law.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

If you walk into a coffee shop looking like Rambo with a gun and a knife strapped on openly, even if you did have the expensive gun in a horse hide holster, the officer would be remiss if he did not ask to see your permit and ID. Once those were provided he should have gone no further. Well probably OK to check for outstanding warrants.

When you open carry you should expect that someone is going to say something and it is good to stay calm and collected through the whole situation.

I must respectfully disagree. Change the object from a gun to a leatherman tool. Would it be ok for the guy to run a check on your leatherman and insist that he handle it and then place it in your vehicle? None of these actions are necessary! Criminals do not walk around OCing. There is no reason to jump to the conclusion that a gun OCed may be stolen.

Sorry McBride, this reasoning is fundamentally flawed. I respect your posts but have to disagree with this one.

Regards,
Josh