Alien gear boycott

[Bigtanker]

To be fair to the Officers while he was laying on the ground he still had the gun in his hand and was said to be trying to lift it. You can't see it all in the video. He was high on PCP which is a drug that makes people very hard to take down by any means. Unless you have dealt with someone on it you truly have no idea. They believe they are invincible and their bodies respond accordingly.

My thoughts too. I wonder if there is another video with a different angle.

 

[Mgderf]

...You still can have your opinion

Well, that's YOUR opinion!

 

[2A_Tom]

I bought one a year or so ago and am now glad that It fell apart and I returned it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Meh, point a gun at the police (or anybody), I really don't care how many rounds they put in the BG. The easy way to avoid being shot 45 times? Don't point your gun at somebody.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I used to think they were great until I experienced a failure and did more.research and found out it's a widespread issue because they use bad materials

Well damn, now I gotta do a torture test.

 

[2A_Tom]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kutnupe14 again.

Again I surprize both of us, I agree completely.

When mine arrived I was shocked that it was not Plug and play. It came with dozens of different length screws and spacers to make it fit my gun. This is understandable because I carry such a unique firearm that most holster manufacturers are not familliar with. A 1911A1 GI modle.

Well it was difficult to get the spacers and all and then when I wore it for a day some of the screws backed out and it got very slopy. Then I read that once you got it adjusted, you had to take it all apart and locktite all of the screws.

Since it put my carry way back to 4 o'clock and torn rotator cuffs preclude me from dwawing and re-holstering beyond 3 o'clock I sent the POS back.

They did however honor their money back guarantee and send me a shipping label and complete refund.

 

[Spear Dane]

So they blame a 'new employee.' If true she has both incredibly bad judgement and no feeling for the business that Alien Gear is involved with.

 

[Cameramonkey]

From what I hear they are junk any way.

I've actually never heard that. I have one, so I might be biased, but they seem comfortable and reliable. I don't have any complaints. But then again, it's for my relatively lightweight G43, and it's my first AG holster. My personal preference is Galco.

Well damn, now I gotta do a torture test.

Y'all havent been paying attention. They are often sloppy and dont follow through on their promises. (though I know others who purchased them and are happy.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...509-1-aliengear-bipolar-customer-service.html

 

[Hogwylde]

........................You still can have your opinion

It's amazing how many people think they have a First Amendment right to "voice" their opinions without repercussions. The first six word of the Bill of Rights is "The GOVERNMENT shall make no law............." which means the Government can't sanction you. It DOESN'T mean that private individuals and corporations can't take action against you for your "opinions". You want to spout off with some unpopular crap, be prepared for the fallout.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm with Trigger Time on this one. Even if I boycotted them, they wouldn't notice because their product is not to the quality level I expect in my gear so I'm not a customer anyway.

As to the number of shots, remember it takes time to decide to stop shooting just like it take time to decide to start shooting. You must go through the OODA loop again, Observe the suspect is no longer a threat, Orient yourself to that new reality, Decide to stop shooting, and then Act so your finger stops pulling the trigger. Watching the video, there is very little time delay between when his gun hand stops moving and the last shot.

 

[HoughMade]

My reaction was not agreeing or disagreeing with the post about 45 shots. Maybe it was reasonable, maybe not, all of us who were not involved can have our opinions and in the end it really doesn't matter what our opinions are.

My problem is with the lizard-brain reaction (stimulus-response, unencumbered by reflection) that anything vaguely critical of police deserves a boycott, no matter how inconsequential. C'mon, that's a half step away from trying to get speakers you don't agree with banned from a campus.

 

[nakinate]

My reaction was not agreeing or disagreeing with the post about 45 shots. Maybe it was reasonable, maybe not, all of us who were not involved can have our opinions and in the end it really doesn't matter what our opinions are.

My problem is with the lizard-brain reaction (stimulus-response, unencumbered by reflection) that anything vaguely critical of police deserves a boycott, no matter how inconsequential. C'mon, that's a half step away from trying to get speakers you don't agree with banned from a campus.

Quit trying to be reasonable! BLOCKED!

 

[Doublehelix]

My reaction was not agreeing or disagreeing with the post about 45 shots. Maybe it was reasonable, maybe not, all of us who were not involved can have our opinions and in the end it really doesn't matter what our opinions are.

My problem is with the lizard-brain reaction (stimulus-response, unencumbered by reflection) that anything vaguely critical of police deserves a boycott, no matter how inconsequential. C'mon, that's a half step away from trying to get speakers you don't agree with banned from a campus.

Although you are obviously entitled to your opinion, what makes you think that you know what other people's thought process was in this case? Are you sure that no one took the time to reflect? How do you know that? Maybe only *you* took the time to reflect? That is an arrogant stance and short-sighted IMHO.

Maybe they did take the time to reflect, but they came to a different conclusion than you did. So this means they are "snowflakes"?

 

[ViperJock]

From what I hear they are junk any way.

They are the best $20 holster on the market....
i bought a handful to mess around with because they are so cheap when you buy one for several guns and switch the shell out. You get what you pay for. I use them for my guns I don't carry but want to have a holster at the range. I would never carry one after getting them and experimenting with them. 2 cents. On the other hand, I kind of like their iwb mag pouches for spare mags in pockets.

Having said that: boycott? Over-reaction. It's reminiscent of the way liberals behave.

 

[nakinate]

They are the best $20 holster on the market....
i bought a handful to mess around with because they are so cheap when you buy one for several guns and switch the shell out. You get what you pay for. I use them for my guns I don't carry but want to have a holster at the range. I would never carry one after getting them and experimenting with them. 2 cents. On the other hand, I kind of like their iwb mag pouches for spare mags in pockets.

Having said that: boycott? Over-reaction. It's reminiscent of the way liberals behave.

I paid $40 for the 3rd gen AG holster. My favorite cheap holster so far is a $20 bladetech I picked up for the G43.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I'm with Trigger Time on this one. Even if I boycotted them, they wouldn't notice because their product is not to the quality level I expect in my gear so I'm not a customer anyway.

As to the number of shots, remember it takes time to decide to stop shooting just like it take time to decide to start shooting. You must go through the OODA loop again, Observe the suspect is no longer a threat, Orient yourself to that new reality, Decide to stop shooting, and then Act so your finger stops pulling the trigger. Watching the video, there is very little time delay between when his gun hand stops moving and the last shot.

BBI, I respect that everyone may see it differently, but what I saw was a motionless body on the ground doing, for lack of a better description, "the funky chicken" as it was stippled with gun fire. It sounded to me like the majority of the officers stopped firing within about two seconds of the perp collapsing to the ground. It also sounds like two continued rapidly firing, mag dumping by the "cadence", and I suspect those officers halted only because they had fired until their current magazine was empty, not because they halted based upon situational awareness.

I also noticed at least 5 civilians a block or less behind the perp. The officer who is seen in frame as the perp excited the SUV put, by my count, 7 unaimed rounds down range because he had chosen to stand in the middle of the street, rather than immediately seeking cover. IMO, he should not be a police officer... he doesn't have what it takes to do a very hard job... I do not want him in my community with my loved ones walking down the sidewalk being subjected to his random, unnecessarily wild gunfire.

Much has been made of the AVERAGE round count. That is the wrong metric. I suspect that if each of the 7 officers' ammo situation was examined, we would find 5 officers who purposefully aimed 2-3 double taps for 4-6 rounds apiece, and 2 officers who fully expended one or two MAGAZINES in a fairly undisciplined manner, judging from the puffs of asphalt and flying flip-flops. I'll go further in saying that I think these 2 accounted for both the majority of rounds fired AND the most of rounds completely off target. I'm pretty sure one of these two cops is cop #1 I mentioned above.

Don't get me wrong. NONE of this is about the perp... he sealed his fate when he came out of the SUV firing. He looked to go down in a hail of gunfire and had his wish rightfully delivered.

Rather, this is about at least one officer, and probably a second, who lost all fire discipline and sent an inordinate amount of lead downrange, off-target in a populated area (Atlantic City) and it's only the grace of God that their indiscriminate gunfire didn't put innocents in the hospital or morgue.

At least one, if not two, do not have the fortitude necessary to be an officer, I'm sorry to say.

 

[ViperJock]

Although you are obviously entitled to your opinion, what makes you think that you know what other people's thought process was in this case? Are you sure that no one took the time to reflect? How do you know that? Maybe only *you* took the time to reflect? That is an arrogant stance and short-sighted IMHO.

Maybe they did take the time to reflect, but they came to a different conclusion than you did. So this means they are "snowflakes"?

I love it when I see this. "How do you know what people think?" People are simple and predictable. They are driven by very few motivations and respond in very predictable ways. As a lawyer, I'm sure Hough is an astute observer of such. No one is unique. Most in a group are similar. The need for group acceptance decreases the likelihood logic will play a role.

 

[grunt soldier]

BBI, I respect that everyone may see it differently, but what I saw was a motionless body on the ground doing, for lack of a better description, "the funky chicken" as it was stippled with gun fire. It sounded to me like the majority of the officers stopped firing within about two seconds of the perp collapsing to the ground. It also sounds like two continued rapidly firing, mag dumping by the "cadence", and I suspect those officers halted only because they had fired until their current magazine was empty, not because they halted based upon situational awareness.

I also noticed at least 5 civilians a block or less behind the perp. The officer who is seen in frame as the perp excited the SUV put, by my count, 7 unaimed rounds down range because he had chosen to stand in the middle of the street, rather than immediately seeking cover. IMO, he should not be a police officer... he doesn't have what it takes to do a very hard job... I do not want him in my community with my loved ones walking down the sidewalk being subjected to his random, unnecessarily wild gunfire.

Much has been made of the AVERAGE round count. That is the wrong metric. I suspect that if each of the 7 officers' ammo situation was examined, we would find 5 officers who purposefully aimed 2-3 double taps for 4-6 rounds apiece, and 2 officers who fully expended one or two MAGAZINES in a fairly undisciplined manner, judging from the puffs of asphalt and flying flip-flops. I'll go further in saying that I think these 2 accounted for both the majority of rounds fired AND the most of rounds completely off target. I'm pretty sure one of these two cops is cop #1 I mentioned above.

Don't get me wrong. NONE of this is about the perp... he sealed his fate when he came out of the SUV firing. He looked to go down in a hail of gunfire and had his wish rightfully delivered.

Rather, this is about at least one officer, and probably a second, who lost all fire discipline and sent an inordinate amount of lead downrange, off-target in a populated area (Atlantic City) and it's only the grace of God that their indiscriminate gunfire didn't put innocents in the hospital or morgue.

At least one, if not two, do not have the fortitude necessary to be an officer, I'm sorry to say.

You know what you have that these Officers didn't have???

Safety, the safety of sitting in your house watching it on your computer, the ability to stop the video and dissect it play by play as you have done, all the time in the world, no person walking directly toward you shooting and attempting to end your life.

You have all the time in a world to decide how you would have best handled it and how you would have done this and that differently. And that you know you would have stopped shooting after your well placed "double taps"

The man still has a gun in his hand and is moving. He is conscious enough that with his non gun hand he is flipping the bird to police while laying on the ground being shot.

It's easy to judge a situation after the fact. One thing I will agree with you on was their aim especially at the end. But to that note. They were just involved in a high speed pursuit and had bullets flying at them. Their stress levels were off the charts. The department if it hasn't already should implement more stressors during their training especially on the range.

 

[Dddrees]

IMO, past about :27 - :28, that was excessive... he dead so that part didn't matter... more about unnecessary lead downrange in a populated area.

Still not a wise marketing move to voice such an opinion. Nor to "alien"-ate cops on twitter by blocking them when they call you out.

I think the post was reasonable. Are we protesting reasonable now or is any questioning strictly verboten?

It isn't an anti-police post. If your answer is "yes" fine, but a protest due to a question?

The snowflake mentality is found in some of the weirdest places.

Seems the mistake they made wasn't that they may have had a point, it's that a good portion of their customer base may not be as open minded given the subject material.

Opinions on political or social matters generally don't equate to good business.

 

[HoughMade]

Seems the mistake they made wasn't that they may have had a point, it's that a good portion of their customer base may not be as open minded given the subject material.

Opinions on political or social matters generally don't equate to good business.

Their customer base, or loudmouths who weren't customers anyway and are trying to ruin a business because some employee dare ask a question?