The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[jamil]

Sucky as that is, it really has nothing to do with EV’s.

 

[jamil]

I don't understand people. The Resident in Chief is purposefully making our country dependent on foreign powers, the idiots at Davos are outright saying what their plan is for us in the future, with laws being passed accordingly, we're being told to take shots to keep our jobs, which aren't properly tested, lied to about their efficacy, our rights are being removed or constrained left and right and the Leftist DA's and other politicians are keeping criminals on the streets. Add to that our country has a huge, brightly lit Vacancy sign for all the third world countries to send us their people illegally, who will soak up benefits due to the corruption of our "leaders", but people think that things are just fine...

Okay. Right. But what does that have to do with electric cars? How is the idea of the world leaders plotting to take personally owned vehicles away intrinsically linked with the evils of electric cars?

 

[Ingomike]

Not everyone who wants an electric car or even likes them thinks about the environment. I think they’re cool. I don’t really give a **** about global warming.

This kinda confirms the source of people’s angst over EV’s. You guys act as if you think their availability at all is about nothing but global warming.

It is that at least a little. The green industrial complex is a huge industry. The market has not grown the sales organically. It was helped by government subsidies. I much prefer that EV’s would be market driven.

I think that market would be much smaller without government help. But you’re not making greater good arguments in this thread, are you. There are many more reasons to want an electric car than delusions of saving the planet.

I think they’re cool. I don’t own one only because they’re impractical for me. Right now. If I didn’t care about range, time to charge, availability of charge, cost of charging, battery life, impact on the power grid, mining battery material, and all that stuff, I would probably have bought one. Because they’re cool.

You sure are stuck on your bias.

This kinda confirms the source of people’s angst over EV’s. You guys act as if you think their availability at all is about nothing but global warming.

When have I or anyone said that. It is mainly about control and political corruption, making insane gains from market manipulation. GW is the excuse…

But. It is at least a little market driven.

No it is not. It is driven by government cash. And this from a guy giving me crap because I think it appropriate for government to provide parks.

I think they’re cool. I don’t own one only because they’re impractical for me. Right now. If I didn’t care about range, time to charge, availability of charge, cost of charging, battery life, impact on the power grid, mining battery material, and all that stuff, I would probably have bought one. Because they’re cool.

Nerds gonna nerd…

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

“In Q4 2022, typical mid-priced ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car drivers paid about $11.29 to fuel their vehicles for 100 miles of driving. That cost was around $0.31 cheaper than the amount paid by mid-priced EV drivers charging mostly at home, and over $3 less than the cost borne by comparable EV drivers charging commercially,” Anderson Economic Group (AEG)

You make expensive energy seem cheap by making cheap energy expensive. When cheap energy gets cheap(er) again, the whole house of cards is in danger of collapse.

 

[wtburnette]

Okay. Right. But what does that have to do with electric cars? How is the idea of the world leaders plotting to take personally owned vehicles away intrinsically linked with the evils of electric cars?

Because electric cars have lower range. Those in charge want us to stay close to home so they can control us better. Anything the government and the elites want, I don't want anything to do with. As hard as they are pushing electric cars makes me not want them even more than normal. Same thing with the jab. If it's so F'n great, why do you have to push them so hard? That tells me to steer clear.

I'm also a bit of a nerd and love cool like this, but electric cars just leave me cold. My buddy bought a Tesla and brought it by to give me a test drive, ranting and raving and showing me all the cool features. Didn't really do much for me. Yes it was powerful. Yes it had some cool features, but it's not anything that made me feel like I wanted one. Some of the things are already on or will be offered on regular ICE vehicles at some point. Why buy a more expensive vehicle that will raise my insurance, raise my electric bill (which is supposed to go even higher due to the Bidiot's incompetence) that gives me less range than my current vehicle? Nope, not for me. Add to that the above, plus knowing that it's as bad or worse for the environment and I have zero desire for one.

 

[jamil]

You sure are stuck on your bias.

Oh, I bet you say that to all the guys who disagree with you. Hey. Everyone has their bias. But, being stuck in one's bias looks a lot more like refusing to believe the parts of reality that don't confirm the thing you want to believe. If you care to review what I've said about it in the past, you should notice that I agree with you on several points. I just don't agree with your insistence that there is no market for EV's just for the EV's.

When have I or anyone said that. It is mainly about control and political corruption, making insane gains from market manipulation. GW is the excuse…

That's actually what I'm getting at. I don't disagree that TPTB are shoving EV's on the population and part of that is using GW to scare people into accepting it. Subsidies are evil; they should all end. But regardless of what I think, you seem eager to find find every fault; reluctant to find any benefits. You think there is other reason to own them but government manipulation. And that's bull ****.

If TPTB suddenly dropped the GW initiatives, and suddenly ended all subsidies, there would still be a market for EVs. It would be a lot smaller because no more virtue-signaling as a motivation for EV's. But there'd still be a market. Tesla would still exist, but Elon Musk would be less rich.

No it is not. It is driven by government cash. And this from a guy giving me crap because I think it appropriate for government to provide parks.

Nerds gonna nerd…

See what I mean? You deny a reality that obviously exists. Government cash isn't all that drives the sale of EV's. Enthusiasm for technology also drives it. I'm not the only geek out there. EV's aren't there yet for my use cases, but I know people that own them. They bought theirs because of tech enthusiasm. Not because they thought they were saving the world. Not because there was a government subsidy. They'd have bought it regardless. For a couple of years, Tesla buyers no longer recieved Federal subsidies because Tesla hit the milestone where their eligibility ended. The only Tesla buyers who got subsidies were in states that also offered subsidies. People still bought Teslas.

And it's "geek" not "nerd". Nerds are socially awkward people who wear pocket protectors.

 

[jamil]

Because electric cars have lower range. Those in charge want us to stay close to home so they can control us better.

I really don't get this at all. You think TPTB is pushing EV's, at least in part, because they have lower range? Why wouldn't they just pass a law that limits gas tank capacity? Why are EV's competing to increase their range? Why are some manufacturers thinking about adding a gas powered range extender? I don't think "to decrease range for control" is a logical conclusion.

Anything the government and the elites want, I don't want anything to do with. As hard as they are pushing electric cars makes me not want them even more than normal. Same thing with the jab. If it's so F'n great, why do you have to push them so hard? That tells me to steer clear.

If TPTB want clean air, does that make you want dirty air? I suspect the main reason TPTB are pushing EV's is at the behest of the Green Industrial Complex. It's certainly not because of the environment, because the battery glut is harmful. WTF will we do with all the dead batteries?

I'm also a bit of a nerd geek

FIFY

and love cool like this, but electric cars just leave me cold. My buddy bought a Tesla and brought it by to give me a test drive, ranting and raving and showing me all the cool features. Didn't really do much for me. Yes it was powerful. Yes it had some cool features, but it's not anything that made me feel like I wanted one. Some of the things are already on or will be offered on regular ICE vehicles at some point. Why buy a more expensive vehicle that will raise my insurance, raise my electric bill (which is supposed to go even higher due to the Bidiot's incompetence) that gives me less range than my current vehicle? Nope, not for me. Add to that the above, plus knowing that it's as bad or worse for the environment and I have zero desire for one.

Hopefully the things that leave you cold about it are just the impracticality. That's pretty much where I'm at. My first time in a Tesla was when a coworker drove us to lunch in his. Really cool. But as I rode, I notice many things I didn't like. I like the clean modern look, but I want knobs and buttons. I want controls that I can feel when I'm driving. That's a big one. Also, I was in the back seat. Plenty of room. But, it was a cloudy dark day, black interior, I couldn't find the ****ing door latch to get out. The guy had to talk me through it! Finally one of the other passengers just opened the door from outside. Why can't they have a normal ****ing latch that you can find in the dark?

Other things. I don't like that Tesla shuts your car down remotely if it detects that you're using salvaged parts. That's not just Tesla. Pretty much any car could do that now.

And yeah, the range is an issue too. I think it works well for a daily commuter. drive to work. Drive to lunch. Drive home. Drive to the store. Plug it in overnight. Rinse, repeat. But then I think you need a ICE vehicle too. We have three vehicles now, and one of them could be an EV, but there's the whole battery thing. And electricity is getting more expensive.

I wouldn't say I have zero desire for one. If I won the lottery I'd go buy one today. So in other words, taking the cost out of the decision which is a pretty big factor. But it wouldn't be a Tesla. But the EV would have a very limited use case.

 

[jamil]

You make expensive energy seem cheap by making cheap energy expensive. When cheap energy gets cheap(er) again, the whole house of cards is in danger of collapse.

They do have the whole virtue-signaling thing though. As long as there is virtue to be had at any price, rich people will pay any price to show theirs.

If we go back to the glory days of low inflation, cheap energy, saner policies, etcetera, one motivation for buying an EV was to save money. And they were cheaper to drive than gas then, even after factoring in the initial cost. You eventually break even.

Now that electricity costs are so high because of insane policies, that incentive is gone. I see 3 primary motives remaining for owning an EV now: Virtue. Fear. Enthusiasm for technology. I think the latter will diminish. The former two will always be there as long as there's a delusion that they're saving the planet.

 

[oze]

Because electric cars have lower range. Those in charge want us to stay close to home so they can control us better. Anything the government and the elites want, I don't want anything to do with. As hard as they are pushing electric cars makes me not want them even more than normal. Same thing with the jab. If it's so F'n great, why do you have to push them so hard? That tells me to steer clear.

I'm also a bit of a nerd and love cool like this, but electric cars just leave me cold. My buddy bought a Tesla and brought it by to give me a test drive, ranting and raving and showing me all the cool features. Didn't really do much for me. Yes it was powerful. Yes it had some cool features, but it's not anything that made me feel like I wanted one. Some of the things are already on or will be offered on regular ICE vehicles at some point. Why buy a more expensive vehicle that will raise my insurance, raise my electric bill (which is supposed to go even higher due to the Bidiot's incompetence) that gives me less range than my current vehicle? Nope, not for me. Add to that the above, plus knowing that it's as bad or worse for the environment and I have zero desire for one.

I'm going to buy the Dodge Charger Banshee, get the upgrades to bring it to over 800 HP, and virtue signal all over town with my fake exhaust sound.

Dodge shows Banshee Concept performance EV, tips 455-670 hp

The Dodge Charger Daytona SRT Concept EV shown off at SEMA highlights some of the power ratings of the forthcoming electric muscle car.

www.motorauthority.com

 

[Ingomike]

See what I mean? You deny a reality that obviously exists. Government cash isn't all that drives the sale of EV's. Enthusiasm for technology also drives it.

Without government cash and government funded propaganda demand currently would be virtually nil. Without all that electric formula one and Tesla would likely not even exist for you nerds, err, geeks to even drool over…

 

[Ingomike]

And it's "geek" not "nerd". Nerds are socially awkward people who wear pocket protectors.

Please do not distort my vision of you….

 

[Ingomike]

But regardless of what I think, you seem eager to find find every fault; reluctant to find any benefits.

I LOVE promoting that which shoves this back up their collective a****.

 

[Ingomike]

I really don't get this at all. You think TPTB is pushing EV's, at least in part, because they have lower range?

You will understand it better if you first understand that energy is freedom, thus the attack on all energy. The switch to electric is about the first level of control. The left rarely turns the heat up to high, they just keep inching the temp up little by little.

 

[firecadet613]

You will understand it better if you first understand that energy is freedom, thus the attack on all energy. The switch to electric is about the first level of control. The left rarely turns the heat up to high, they just keep inching the temp up little by little.

 

[wtburnette]

I really don't get this at all. You think TPTB is pushing EV's, at least in part, because they have lower range? Why wouldn't they just pass a law that limits gas tank capacity? Why are EV's competing to increase their range? Why are some manufacturers thinking about adding a gas powered range extender? I don't think "to decrease range for control" is a logical conclusion.


If TPTB want clean air, does that make you want dirty air? I suspect the main reason TPTB are pushing EV's is at the behest of the Green Industrial Complex. It's certainly not because of the environment, because the battery glut is harmful. WTF will we do with all the dead batteries?


FIFY


Hopefully the things that leave you cold about it are just the impracticality. That's pretty much where I'm at. My first time in a Tesla was when a coworker drove us to lunch in his. Really cool. But as I rode, I notice many things I didn't like. I like the clean modern look, but I want knobs and buttons. I want controls that I can feel when I'm driving. That's a big one. Also, I was in the back seat. Plenty of room. But, it was a cloudy dark day, black interior, I couldn't find the ****ing door latch to get out. The guy had to talk me through it! Finally one of the other passengers just opened the door from outside. Why can't they have a normal ****ing latch that you can find in the dark?

Other things. I don't like that Tesla shuts your car down remotely if it detects that you're using salvaged parts. That's not just Tesla. Pretty much any car could do that now.

And yeah, the range is an issue too. I think it works well for a daily commuter. drive to work. Drive to lunch. Drive home. Drive to the store. Plug it in overnight. Rinse, repeat. But then I think you need a ICE vehicle too. We have three vehicles now, and one of them could be an EV, but there's the whole battery thing. And electricity is getting more expensive.

I wouldn't say I have zero desire for one. If I won the lottery I'd go buy one today. So in other words, taking the cost out of the decision which is a pretty big factor. But it wouldn't be a Tesla. But the EV would have a very limited use case.

I look at it from the vehicle itself, the costs and more to decide I don't like or want an EV. Honestly, like I said, the whole issue reminds me of the jab. If it's so great, why do you have to practically force me into it? That's not the way things work. If you want people to decide on their own, let the free market work. Stop spitting out stupid legislation/executive orders and just let the market decide. The thumb on the scale is very visible and turns off a large segment of the market.

Part for me is feeling like I've peeked behind the curtain and don't like what I've seen.

 

[Ingomike]

LAWRENCE SELLIN: Slowly Boiled Frogs - Have Americans Lost their Capacity For Rage?

Slowly Boiled Frogs: Have Americans Lost their Capacity For Rage? Guest post by Lawrence Sellin Although a minority are content living in a Stalinist dystopia, most aware Americans seem to have lost their sense of outrage as they have quietly accepted the gradual dismantling of our...

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[oze]

I look at it from the vehicle itself, the costs and more to decide I don't like or want an EV. Honestly, like I said, the whole issue reminds me of the jab. If it's so great, why do you have to practically force me into it? That's not the way things work. If you want people to decide on their own, let the free market work. Stop spitting out stupid legislation/executive orders and just let the market decide. The thumb on the scale is very visible and turns off a large segment of the market.

Part for me is feeling like I've peeked behind the curtain and don't like what I've seen.

Agree 100%; let the market decide. But, like @jamil, my inner nerd would love to be able to afford a cool EV. And not a Leaf nor a Bolt, a cool-looking one that will throw my passengers and me helplessly back into the seats when I hit the accelerator. If I could buy one of those, it would (obviously) not be because I wanted to save money on gas, and certainly not to hug trees nor virtue signal. But for *FUN*.

 

[Ingomike]

I get it that you guys think the technology of the super EV’s is cool, but I have long believed that “cool” was planned to counter very real uncool facts about EV’s. At a time when few manufacturers had EV’s, the government gave massive subsidies to both manufacturers and consumers to promote that “cool”.

It was not an accident that Tesla was the first big EV, it used “cool” and accomplished a setting of the market with those subsidies. They learned from the Toyoda pious that being labeled a pu*** car doesn’t help market share.

 

[JCSR]

They learned from the Toyoda pious that being labeled a pu*** car doesn’t help market share.

Someone at Toyota woke up. It's going to be a decent looking car finally. I still don't want one.

2023 Toyota Prius Photo Gallery | Toyota.com

Browse through images of the 2023 Toyota Prius to see interior and exterior color options, and picture this fuel efficient reborn hybrid in your parking spot today.

www.toyota.com

 

[KLB]

Without government cash and government funded propaganda demand currently would be virtually nil. Without all that electric formula one and Tesla would likely not even exist for you nerds, err, geeks to even drool over…

Most EVs sold did not get a tax credit. Before the Inflation *** Act, the first 200,000 cars sold by a manufacturer qualified for one. Tesla is selling over 900K cars a year.

There is a lot of demand for the EVs beyond the tax credits. Today a lot of them don't qualify even under the new guidelines in the stupid IR Act.