*Rumor* Springfield "Prodigy" 2011 Pistol

[Dean C.]

The above 10-8 video is excellent and unbiased. I'll look forward to his range report.

I would lean towards replacing all the internals anyway so the video sheds light on what matters to me - frame, slide and barrel fitment.

So...buy an AOS for Holosun, replace all the internals, buy a magwell and a threaded barrel or pony up for a Staccato P ready out of the box?

You could spend Staccato money on a Springfield and at the end of the day it's still a Springfield. Or you could have a Staccato, I would want the Staccato myself at the very least it will hold it's value better than a worked over gun.

 

[pmbiker]

You could spend Staccato money on a Springfield and at the end of the day it's still a Springfield. Or you could have a Staccato, I would want the Staccato myself at the very least it will hold it's value better than a worked over gun.

Kinda what I'm thinking.

Replace all the mim with tool steel bits and give it a proper trigger job and you're likely close to Staccato money

 

[venenoindy]

You could spend Staccato money on a Springfield and at the end of the day it's still a Springfield. Or you could have a Staccato, I would want the Staccato myself at the very least it will hold it's value better than a worked over gun.

I learned very hard lessons over the years, wait and get what you want. if you try a different route at the end you Wii spend way more and still not have what you originally wanted.

 

[drillsgt]

Kinda what I'm thinking.

Replace all the mim with tool steel bits and give it a proper trigger job and you're likely close to Staccato money

Not really, if you are patient and wait for them to be in the 1300's you can get good parts from say Harrison Design and replace the MIM and i've found using Harrison stuff is the trigger job, with no additional tweaking usually necessary. You'd still be 6-700 under Staccato MSRP.

 

[Dean C.]

Not really, if you are patient and wait for them to be in the 1300's you can get good parts from say Harrison Design and replace the MIM and i've found using Harrison stuff is the trigger job, with no additional tweaking usually necessary. You'd still be 6-700 under Staccato MSRP.

How's sear engagement look with the Harrison design stuff utilizing it as essentially drop in parts? Call me insane but if I am upgrading to tool steel I am having a smith work it over myself. Then you still need to upgrade disconnector , slide stop and recoil system (get the Dawson Tooless unit and thank me later)

I started this thread and I love detailing it , this has been the most fun I have had on INGO in a while.

Also my official response to not having a gunsmith work a tool steel upgrade over. I even had my Staccato worked over having it made a glass rod break versus the standard rolling break.

 

[T-DOGG]

How's sear engagement look with the Harrison design stuff utilizing it as essentially drop in parts? Call me insane but if I am upgrading to tool steel I am having a smith work it over myself. Then you still need to upgrade disconnector , slide stop and recoil system (get the Dawson Tooless unit and thank me later)

I started this thread and I love detailing it , this has been the most fun I have had on INGO in a while.

Also my official response to not having a gunsmith work a tool steel upgrade over. I even had my Staccato worked over having it made a glass rod break versus the standard rolling break.

Drillsgt knows his way around a 1911. He's no Bubba.

 

[Dean C.]

Drillsgt knows his way around a 1911. He's no Bubba.

That's why I asked how the engagement looked and posted the second picture explaining that it generally does work as a drop in unit. Just reiterating for any and all potential cheapskate 1911 / 2011 newbies , as most are not qualified to work on 1911's IMHO

 

[T-DOGG]

That's why I asked how the engagement looked and posted the second picture explaining that it generally does work as a drop in unit. Just reiterating for any and all potential cheapskate 1911 / 2011 newbies , as most are not qualified to work on 1911's IMHO

Apologies, I misinterpreted. I agree this thread has been really good.

 

[DadSmith]

That's why I asked how the engagement looked and posted the second picture explaining that it generally does work as a drop in unit. Just reiterating for any and all potential cheapskate 1911 / 2011 newbies , as most are not qualified to work on 1911's IMHO

CM told me there is no such thing as drop in anything for 1911's. Almost everything needs fitted.
My local gunsmith is very reasonable with his prices. A friend had hom tune up a jam-o-matic RIA 3" 1911. When he was done it was running everything like a sewing machine including HP. All for $55. If I got the parts I'm thinking he'd hand fit them very reasonably. He hand fitted my RIA 10mm flat Wilson Combat FPS for $25 IIRC.

 

[mcapo]

I priced out a Staccato P (threaded/comp/OR) as I would order one. $3000. Indy Gun has a non-comped model for $2600.

A Prodigy is $1500 plus AOS Plate ($70), ignition parts ($200), threaded barrel ($300) for about $2100 give or take.

 

[pmbiker]

Not really, if you are patient and wait for them to be in the 1300's you can get good parts from say Harrison Design and replace the MIM and i've found using Harrison stuff is the trigger job, with no additional tweaking usually necessary. You'd still be 6-700 under Staccato MSRP.

If you can install all the parts and no fitting necessary, you're right.

If your SA is already having feeding issues out of the box(some apparently are) and you don't feel confident installing/fitting parts(I do, some don't) you're eating into that 6-700. Now you're down to 3-400 difference. You have 2k invested into a (now finely tuned) parts bin gun.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind....just thinking out loud.

 

[DadSmith]

How many rounds can quality MIM parts handle? 10k, 20k, 50k 100k? Is their a avg lifespan for such parts?

 

[drillsgt]

If you can install all the parts and no fitting necessary, you're right.

If your SA is already having feeding issues out of the box(some apparently are) and you don't feel confident installing/fitting parts(I do, some don't) you're eating into that 6-700. Now you're down to 3-400 difference. You have 2k invested into a (now finely tuned) parts bin gun.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind....just thinking out loud.

Sounds like the Staccatos the gun for you then.

 

[mcapo]

How many rounds can quality MIM parts handle? 10k, 20k, 50k 100k? Is their a avg lifespan for such parts?

Say it’s 20k….that’s $5000 to $8500 in ammo. Even if you reload, its still probably $3500+?

Who’s cares about a few hundred in new parts.

I’d replace the parts, not because of lack of faith in MIM, but because I am a 1911 trigger snob.

 

[DadSmith]

Say it’s 20k….that’s $5000 to $8500 in ammo. Even if you reload, its still probably $3500+?

Who’s cares about a few hundred in new parts.

I’d replace the parts, not because of lack of faith in MIM, but because I am a 1911 trigger snob.

I was looking into guns that have mim parts and was surprised to see some of the most well-known and reliable firearms use them.
Glock Gen 4 and 5, even Sig P226 uses mim parts.
So there is a difference with quality mim.

 

[Bosshoss]

I was looking into guns that have mim parts and was surprised to see some of the most well-known and reliable firearms use them.
Glock Gen 4 and 5, even Sig P226 uses mim parts.
So there is a difference with quality mim.

Yes there is a difference in the quality of MIM parts just like there is a difference in forged parts.
I'm not a expert but I was a die maker for 30 years and worked with hardened steel and casting daily.
I have been working on handguns for decades and since I retired I have been working on S&W revolvers almost exclusively and have competition revolvers running in matches all over the country.
I've said it before(many times) that I prefer MIM over foraged for S&W revolvers. It takes me on average 2 hours longer to do a full competition action job on forged part revolvers than MIM parts gun. The forged parts are all over the place and inconsistence as hell. I have to spend a lot of time just getting the surfaces squared up and running true before I even start doing a action job.
MIM rarely ever gives me a problem and surfaces are true and in spec out of the box. Just start doing a action job.
How long does MIM last? I'll have to get back to you as I have several customers with 200 to 300 thousands of rounds live fire and even more than that dryfire with no failures.
My experience with auto loaders is similar but I don't work on them regularly. I believe if you wait to wear MIM parts out you will have forged parts that are ready for a tune up or replaced also. Many, Many rounds.
Many of the same people who replace MIM parts in a 1911 right away also replace forged parts in 1911's because they want "High Quality"(Better?) Hammers and Sears for a better trigger job.
Their is nothing wrong with replacing hammers and sears with different parts especially if you want a certain style hammer(cosmetic).
Heat treat if done right is the same forged or MIM.
MIM isn't really that much cheaper than forged as the cost of the molds is insane as is the process. The main reason IMO for MIM is the reduced time fitting said parts because they are more consistence.
This is just my experience from working on MIM and forged parts everyday.

 

[mcapo]

That was worth WAY MORE than !!

 

[cedartop]

How many rounds can quality MIM parts handle? 10k, 20k, 50k 100k? Is their a avg lifespan for such parts?

Not sure if you already saw this. MIM are totally fine in some applications.

 

[Bigtanker]

Only offered in 9? No thanks. Let me know when they offer a .45

Ditto. Or 10 mm.

I just listened to an interview with Rob Latham. He stated that yes, it's only in 9mm right now, but just about all of the other cartridges will eventually fit and be chambered in this. 40, 45, 38 super, 9x23 Dillion and 10mm

 

[DadSmith]

Yes there is a difference in the quality of MIM parts just like there is a difference in forged parts.
I'm not a expert but I was a die maker for 30 years and worked with hardened steel and casting daily.
I have been working on handguns for decades and since I retired I have been working on S&W revolvers almost exclusively and have competition revolvers running in matches all over the country.
I've said it before(many times) that I prefer MIM over foraged for S&W revolvers. It takes me on average 2 hours longer to do a full competition action job on forged part revolvers than MIM parts gun. The forged parts are all over the place and inconsistence as hell. I have to spend a lot of time just getting the surfaces squared up and running true before I even start doing a action job.
MIM rarely ever gives me a problem and surfaces are true and in spec out of the box. Just start doing a action job.
How long does MIM last? I'll have to get back to you as I have several customers with 200 to 300 thousands of rounds live fire and even more than that dryfire with no failures.
My experience with auto loaders is similar but I don't work on them regularly. I believe if you wait to wear MIM parts out you will have forged parts that are ready for a tune up or replaced also. Many, Many rounds.
Many of the same people who replace MIM parts in a 1911 right away also replace forged parts in 1911's because they want "High Quality"(Better?) Hammers and Sears for a better trigger job.
Their is nothing wrong with replacing hammers and sears with different parts especially if you want a certain style hammer(cosmetic).
Heat treat if done right is the same forged or MIM.
MIM isn't really that much cheaper than forged as the cost of the molds is insane as is the process. The main reason IMO for MIM is the reduced time fitting said parts because they are more consistence.
This is just my experience from working on MIM and forged parts everyday.

Thank you for the good information you posted.
I know Glocks get thousands of rounds through them with MIM parts so it couldn't be all that bad and you made me understand more about it. Just like anything out there if it's done well with quality ingredients, and Good craftsmanship it should be good to go.
I read on a few forums where even tool steel parts break. It had to do with improper heat treatment. So I guess it can happen to any part if it doesn't have good quality control, and Good craftsmanship.