Slavery in America

[NKBJ]

The original sin of The United States...
Now that's really is another interesting topic deserving of its own thread. Obviously it isn't slavery.
Reckon how many people could have the faintest glimmer of what that sin might be.

 

[Magyars]

CRT is not on solid intellectual or academic ground as it is based upon flawed historical analysis, to say the least.

This is not to say that there is not currently racism or that slavery had ill effects which still linger. Both are true, in my opinion. However, CRT is not about that, primarily. It is about a theory that race, and more specifically, racism, is at the center of everything foundational to modern life. It simply is not and was not.

There will always be racism.....just like there will always be poor, and different socio-economic levels.

 

[NKBJ]

And a union of consent was replaced with a union by force.

Claiming Lincoln preserved the union is like the abusive husband who kills his wife, as she is trying to walk away from the abusive marriage, claiming he preserved the marriage.

(Though to Lincoln's credit, he did it more than 600,000 times)

It was indeed forced. He really didn't have a choice. Four decades earlier the VP of The United States had published what would become of the financial oppression being exercised against the south. Then, when everybody was thoroughly propagandized and tired of talking, the pot boiled over.

 

[wtburnette]

Very impressed we've been able to keep this conversation on the rails and the thread unlocked.

The French abolished slavery in 1794, after the (ultimately successful) slave revolt in what is now Haiti/Dominican Rep. Napolean revived the practice from 1804 until its final abolition in 1848

The Dutch East India Co signed an international agreement to abolish slavery in 1814

George III signed a law abolishing slavery in the British Isles in 1807. It would be abolished in the rest of the empire in 1833

Spain abolished slavery in Spain and all of its colonies in 1811

We did not limit slavery until the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862, which technically only freed slaves in Confederate States. Not until the 13th amendment was ratified in 1865 did the US officially abolish slavery everywhere, and that only after years of bitter, deadly fighting over the issue

My apologies for being mistaken on that. I'd heard or read it previously, but evidently that was incorrect. It's still true, per your last part of the US dates, that we abolished slavery over 100 years ago, which is good enough for the sake of my post. Thanks for the information.

 

[BigRed]

It was indeed forced. He really didn't have a choice. Four decades earlier the VP of The United States had published what would become of the financial oppression being exercised against the south. Then, when everybody was thoroughly propagandized and tired of talking, the pot boiled over.

He did have an alternative choice.....to abide by the Constitution.

The tyrant chose to not do so.

 

[NKBJ]

He did have an alternative choice.....to abide by the Constitution.

The tyrant chose to not do so.

He could have done that. The results would of course been different. I think European powers would have regained control of the continent. That's why I say he really didn't have a choice, just a job to get done. But, it's history now, to be studied. And I love digging into why things happened.

 

[smittygj]

My family in Alabama and Texas owned slaves. But they were only listed in the ledgers by first name and age. No way to trace it back. Trust me, my cousin's who do all this genealogical and DNA research have tried. No way we can link back to an individual as they were released post civil war. We can trace our lineage back to the 1670's in the colonies, but with the slaves, we can't go back further than the ledger entries. Everything stops in 1865.

 

[DadSmith]

From the people that brought you white privilege now comes something new. Birds are Racist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/interactive/2021/bird-names-racism-audubon/

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Putin tells Black US reporter he'd 'prevent' Black Lives Matter in Russia after she asks what he's 'afraid of'

www.alternet.org

 

[gregr]

Three things;

1. Slavery was pure evil. Period.
2. I`ve never owned a slave.
3. No one alive today in the United States has ever been a slave.


lets please stop this stupid stuff and move forward together, instead of allowing liberals to keep us at each others throats.

 

[Kutnupe14]

CRT is not on solid intellectual or academic ground as it is based upon flawed historical analysis, to say the least.

This is not to say that there is not currently racism or that slavery had ill effects which still linger. Both are true, in my opinion. However, CRT is not about that, primarily. It is about a theory that race, and more specifically, racism, is at the center of everything foundational to modern life. It simply is not and was not.

CRT is not on solid intellectual or academic ground as it is based upon flawed historical analysis, to say the least.

This is not to say that there is not currently racism or that slavery had ill effects which still linger. Both are true, in my opinion. However, CRT is not about that, primarily. It is about a theory that race, and more specifically, racism, is at the center of everything foundational to modern life. It simply is not and was not.

I have seen the criticisms you’ve stated, but I have not seen where the CRT thought illustrates this. I would disagree with it, if I thought that were the case it was trying to make.

 

[wtburnette]

Three things;

1. Slavery was pure evil. Period.
2. I`ve never owned a slave.
3. No one alive today in the United States has ever been a slave.


lets please stop this stupid stuff and move forward together, instead of allowing liberals to keep us at each others throats.

The condensed version, I love it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That is a favorably reductive description of CRT. First, I reject the idea that slavery can be described as "the original sin". It is *A* sin that the US participated in, along with the rest of the world. Of course we need to acknowledge the reluctance of the US to end it. It took a war to do it, notwithstanding BigRed's fantasy of the South being innocent victims of Lincoln. But for you and others to couch it in that religious wording isn't descriptive. The doctrine of original sin doesn't describe the dynamics of slavery in early US history.

But, CRT gets some things right. The historical injustices committed against Black people in the US of course has affected Black people generationally in culture and status. But that's about all that CRT gets right. And that part that they get right could be taught without the identitarian ********. CRT makes some specific claims about the nature of White people and the nature of Black people, particularly that White people manifest racism always.

So my objection to CRT is not that they're teaching that the generational injustices committed against Black people have disadvantaged Black people living today. The thing they also teach is that all the social institutions today were created by white people to maintain their power to oppress Black people and that is simply nonsense.

The goal of CRT is to tear down all those institutions and create new ones which flip the hierarchy. The goal isn't just to end racism--they don't believe that racism can be ended, because they believe White people are inherently racist--the goal is to change the power structure, create new institutions, where they get to use institutional power against their oppressors.

A sane and functional society would mock that idea and drive the ideologues who promulgate it to just stop.



I agree that we're no where close, and that race relations have made great strides in the past 100 years. But I completely disagree that the CRT academia aren't saying it's still bad. Because they are. Micro-aggressions and cultural appropriation, and all that lingo they've developed, to me sound like excuses to claim racism is still as bad. And if we're talking within the thinking of CRT, yes, people ARE being told they're racist. We're told that if we want to live in a society that no longer cares about immutable characteristics, like skin color, that that's actually racist. So yes. People are being called racists for saying or doing things that aren't actually racist.

ETA: A question for you. Is silence really violence? Must a White person be an anti-racist ally to forgive their original sin of racism? Now see, that's an appropriate usage of original sin to describe the way CRT academia thinks about it. They think White people are inherently racist and just can't help it--they keep saying it--as if they're incapable of racism themselves. That whole dogma is racist to the core. Hell no that ideological ******** should not be taught in school.

To answer your question. No. Silence is not violence. No one should be compelled to speak on things, even if they disagree with them.
Now we are back to what CRT actually teaches. No, White people are not inherently racist. You imply that CRT teaches this. I have also heard this criticism, but again I have not seen this stated within CRT itself. Now sure, I’m confident you can find “someone,” who offers that opinion, but is that generally accepted? I do not believe it is.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The original sin of The United States...
Now that's really is another interesting topic deserving of its own thread. Obviously it isn't slavery.
Reckon how many people could have the faintest glimmer of what that sin might be.

Slavery, or to be more comprehensive, inequality is the original sin of the United States. Our country was founded on the premise of all people are equal, and yet, before the ink had dried on the Constitution, that had already been enshrined as false. And again, you have to look at the big picture and competing interests. Our nation would not exist, and the framework to fix those problem would be absent. So I can practically say that I understand, but it was still a bad thing with hope of future good coming from it.

 

[churchmouse]

To answer your question. No. Silence is not violence. No one should be compelled to speak on things, even if they disagree with them.
Now we are back to what CRT actually teaches. No, White people are not inherently racist. You imply that CRT teaches this. I have also heard this criticism, but again I have not seen this stated within CRT itself. Now sure, I’m confident you can find “someone,” who offers that opinion, but is that generally accepted? I do not believe it is.

The more we push this the farther back we go.
This **** all needs to stop. Now. Lets start from the beginning and try to get back to where we were before the great divider had his way and set us back decades.

CRT will not do this.

 

[BigRed]

Critical Race Theory, the New Intolerance, and Its Grip on America

As its name should make abundantly clear, Critical Race Theory (CRT) is the child of Critical Theory (CT), or, to be more precise, its grandchild. Critical Theory is the immediate forebearer of Critical Legal Theory (CLT), and CLT begat CRT. As we discuss in this Backgrounder, however, there are...

www.heritage.org

 

[Hkindiana]

Slavery, or to be more comprehensive, inequality is the original sin of the United States. Our country was founded on the premise of all people are equal, and yet, before the ink had dried on the Constitution, that had already been enshrined as false. And again, you have to look at the big picture and competing interests. Our nation would not exist, and the framework to fix those problem would be absent. So I can practically say that I understand, but it was still a bad thing with hope of future good coming from it.

The original sin of the United States started long before slavery, but I guess it is hard to see when you are wearing blinders.

 

[phylodog]

This thread is probably the best argument, I've seen, for CRT being taught in schools.

Clearly, because filling their heads with ******** for the past 20 years has worked out real well. Why not pile on some more.

CRT = Here’s your non expiring excuse to fail as well as a race of people to blame it on even though race isn’t supposed to matter.

 

[sangamospecial23j]

You're calling it racist indoctrination; can you please tell me exactly how CRT is that? In what way does the concept cultivate racism against, assumedly, White people living today.

"CRT has its underpinnings in the philosophical writings of Derrick Bell in the 1970s and early 1980s. It was born out of the realization by legal scholars, lawyers, and activists that many of the advances of the civil rights era had stopped and in some circumstances were being reversed."

I fundamentally do not agree with this assessment. Since the 1980s we have had CEO's, Presidents, and Cabinet Members, Heads of State, all come from races other than white, and mostly African American. To teach in school we are failing to embrace the civil rights movement in 2021 is just plain wrong, and a huge lie.

The black lives matter crowd want to have fairness in hiring, and representation in movies, music, tv, sports, and corporate American. If you look at their assumed fairness it would say that 50% of all of these positions are African American, or people of color. Well that's perfect for them, but as of 2019 African Americans represented 13.4% of the population. Of that 13.4% of the population 74% of African American males under the age of 28 were in prison, or unemployed. So if we give 50% plus of all the best positions in American to 13.4% of the population then how is that fair? Let alone racist? The real issue is no one tells the facts. They tell lies. Critical Race Theory will only allow the lies to continue.

80+% of all homicides against an African American is another African American, and of those homicides 51% were people that they knew. 2000+ homicides in Chicago, no one cares. The platform of the leftist ideals are built on non sense that only allows those individuals to enrich themselves with enormous wealth, and power at the expense of the very people they should be helping. Look at the BLM founder under fire now because she purchased 3.4 million in property.

I was in the US Navy. I served with Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Filipinos, Samoans, and I will tell you. We all got along great, and trusted each other with our lives. That was 30 years ago. American is a fantastic place, I love her. All the lies from the media and political, and university elite will never change that. American is not a racist Nation. There is definitely no such thing as "White Privilege".

 

[Kutnupe14]

Three things;

1. Slavery was pure evil. Period.
2. I`ve never owned a slave.
3. No one alive today in the United States has ever been a slave.


lets please stop this stupid stuff and move forward together, instead of allowing liberals to keep us at each others throats.

Following the Civil War, and the emancipation of the slaves, vagrancy laws popped up all across the South (ie VA Vagrancy Law of 1866). A key component of those laws was being employed. If someone couldn’t prove the were employed, they could be imprisoned, and forced to work. If they ran away, the would be caught, shackled, and forced to work - no compensation. I imagine I need not tell you who this typically applied to.
Further, another work around was share-cropping. If you understand the concept, then you’ll see the similarities to other institutions. My father and his brothers grew up sharecroppers, working the same land generations had worked. They held that position until Uncle Sam came calling. The family those generations worked for, still exists, and to their credit, they were good people and there’s still an association. This family is still quite wealthy, locally. So to say “there isn’t anyone who owned or was a slave,” while correct, doesn’t exactly tell a comprehensive story. For instance, I went to school with with members of the family, my family was in “business” with, and we obvious would be in the same HS home room. People would joke “are you too related?” It was awkward. It shamed me. I hated it. Both he and I knew the relation, but never spoke on it, outside of shared family gatherings; where the old timers would do the “remember when,” talks. I’ve lost contact with him, but I always remembered how he was respectful of our history; even a small children. I don’t blame him nor his family, but that part of history I believe should be remembered.