Defending against dogs with lethal force?

[Ark]

I run and bike a lot and have thought a fair bit about the dog thing.

I've settled on it not really being a gun problem. I carry pepper spray for dogs. If intervening in an attack on another party, I intend to follow the "wheelbarrow" tactic outlined earlier in the thread.

Fact is that dogs are small and fast and unless it's a contact shot, I don't feel comfortable attempting to use a gun on a dog that is entangled with a person or another dog. The risk of collateral damage is just too great. I wish I was one of those "hit a runnin' rabbit with a snub nose and crooked sights" guys, but I ain't.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Hey, what can I say... I loved physics in HS and college. You have no idea how much self-control I exercised to avoid doing the bonus problem - the "exit" velocity of the dog.

 

[churchmouse]

Hey, what can I say... I loved physics in HS and college. You have no idea how much self-control I exercised to avoid doing the bonus problem - the "exit" velocity of the dog.

Oh do it. Do it man.....Pulease.....

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Oh do it. Do it man.....Pulease.....

 

[churchmouse]

No way man I want to see the equation.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Alrighty, then.... assuming a 25 kg dog:

ΔE = 19,005.5 J = mV²/2 = (25 kg * V²)/2
V² = 2 * 19,005 J/ 25 kg = 1530.4
V ≈ 39 m/s

ETA: Of course that assumes a perfect transfer of energy and doesn't account for "absorbtion" within the dog.

 

[churchmouse]

Alrighty, then.... assuming a 25 kg dog:

ΔE = 19,005.5 J = mV²/2 = (25 kg * V²)/2
V² = 2 * 19,005 J/ 25 kg = 1530.4
V ≈ 39 m/s

ETA: Of course that assumes a perfect transfer of energy and doesn't account for "absorbtion" within the dog.

And there you have it folks. In black and white.

 

[JettaKnight]

Erm, not quite exactly right... the ΔE is not the E of the ΔV.

ΔE = E₁ - E₂
ΔE= ((1750 kg * 13.4112 m/s * 13.4112 m/s)/2) - ((1750 kg * 13 m/s * 13 m/s)/2)
ΔE = 314,755.5 J - 295,750 J = 19,005.5 J

That's 14,018 ft-lbs or about 3 mag dumps from a Glock 21.

@Kirk Freeman that was a bit excessive.

You're right!

(and kudos for finding the delta symbol)

 

[bwframe]

Pull mask up, deal with dog. Leave mask up until well out of area and not followed.

 

[churchmouse]

You're right!

(and kudos for finding the delta symbol)

And Ingo delivers again.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Alrighty, then.... assuming a 25 kg dog:

ΔE = 19,005.5 J = mV²/2 = (25 kg * V²)/2
V² = 2 * 19,005 J/ 25 kg = 1530.4
V ≈ 39 m/s

ETA: Of course that assumes a perfect transfer of energy and doesn't account for "absorbtion" within the dog.

Now do how far the dog traveled after impact.

 

[Bill of Rights]

A dog ran out in front of my jeep at a busy intersection, in front of a restaurant at lunchtime last summer. I hit the dog, felt it under my jeep. I was afraid to look. I got out, dog had run off. Then this trashy version of an obese Karen shows up and starts screeching at me that i need to find the owners and tell them, and that i need to call the police. When i asked why the police, she screamed that she saw me hit the dog, everyone saw me hit the dog, and it's the right thing to do. I was already upset, she wouldn't listen to me, just kept going on and on, until i finally told her i don't need her telling me what to do, and to shut up and call the cops herself. Evidently she thinks it's a crime to accidentally hit a dog.

I'm thinking the most polite response she would have gotten would have been, "Madame, you are cordially invited to forcefully insert your opinion someplace dark and smelly. I have no preference which place you choose, but I am leaving. Have a lovely day."

As to whether or not I referenced her with the appropriate term for a female dog once I was in my vehicle.... I leave that to the reader's imagination.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

I have a question on these felony levels how many are there and what level is the worst felony to the least? I tried looking it up but I'm not finding anything unless it's from another state which probably isn't the same as Indiana.

Level 1 is the more severe punishment for violation.

 

[tcecil88]

Years ago my Uncle's dog was shot by a local farmer after the dog repeatedly got into his pigs. The farmer warned my uncle twice before he decided to protect his pigs. Not a great shot as the dog limped home and died in its house. My uncle called the Sheriff, who went and questioned the farmer. They came back and told him that there was nothing they could do because the landowner has pics of the dog on the property and in the pig house, had some torn up pigs, and he had been warned more than once.

 

[T.Lex]

Well seeing as both the guys are in this thread lets not go there OK.

Sorry CM, for as much as it may disappoint, I think the incident is water under the bridge - at least for me.

He and I have been in threads before and even agreed with each other. Exchanged rep and everything.

At least on the internet, I think the whole thing is NBD.

(Granted, he may have forgotten my role in the incident.)

 

[churchmouse]

Years ago my Uncle's dog was shot by a local farmer after the dog repeatedly got into his pigs. The farmer warned my uncle twice before he decided to protect his pigs. Not a great shot as the dog limped home and died in its house. My uncle called the Sheriff, who went and questioned the farmer. They came back and told him that there was nothing they could do because the landowner has pics of the dog on the property and in the pig house, had some torn up pigs, and he had been warned more than once.

That the LE was even involved would have sent me down to the dog owners house.
There "Was" an overly aggressive GS down the street from us that is the reason the terrorists are fearful of anything furry on 4 legs. It actually trapped them and their mother in the car in their driveway once. That was as close as I came to ending that dog. Any one in this thread that has or wants to say I was wrong can follow BOR's recommendation as to here that opinion can be inserted.
That dog got after me more than once when it would escape the owners. Of which I had more than 1 heated conversation with.
Keep your dog contained especially if it is aggressive.
Dont yell at me if it scares the bejesus out of 5 year old children.

Its a damned dog people. A dog. It is not your child. Not a person.
I get it but then again I don't.

Not sure what ever became of that animal but I know it caused a lot of trouble and was most likely removed. Not my doing.

 

[churchmouse]

Sorry CM, for as much as it may disappoint, I think the incident is water under the bridge - at least for me.

He and I have been in threads before and even agreed with each other. Exchanged rep and everything.

At least on the internet, I think the whole thing is NBD.

(Granted, he may have forgotten my role in the incident.)

 

[2A_Tom]

Late to this convo, and have only read the most recent posts.

My Son in Law (a) lives in a nice semi-country setting, he has a problem with nuisance animals. My other Son in Law (b) is a nuisance trapper, and set traps around (a's) house. (A's) neighbor has an aggressive and loud dog. Said dog got lose and ran into (a's) yard and my daughter heard loud whiney, plantive, barking outside and when she looked out the window the neighbor was carrying the dog back to their own yard.

They have not had a problem with that dog since.

Although I love animals, I have a bit of a problem with the current anthropromorphization of them.

 

[churchmouse]

Late to this convo, and have only read the most recent posts.

My Son in Law (a) lives in a nice semi-country setting, he has a problem with nuisance animals. My other Son in Law (b) is a nuisance trapper, and set traps around (a's) house. (A's) neighbor has an aggressive and loud dog. Said dog got lose and ran into (a's) yard and my daughter heard loud whiney, plantive, barking outside and when she looked out the window the neighbor was carrying the dog back to their own yard.

They have not had a problem with that dog since.

Although I love animals, I have a bit of a problem with the current anthropromorphization of them.

Bingo.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

That the LE was even involved would have sent me down to the dog owners house.
There "Was" an overly aggressive GS down the street from us that is the reason the terrorists are fearful of anything furry on 4 legs. It actually trapped them and their mother in the car in their driveway once. That was as close as I came to ending that dog. Any one in this thread that has or wants to say I was wrong can follow BOR's recommendation as to here that opinion can be inserted.
That dog got after me more than once when it would escape the owners. Of which I had more than 1 heated conversation with.
Keep your dog contained especially if it is aggressive.
Dont yell at me if it scares the bejesus out of 5 year old children.

Its a damned dog people. A dog. It is not your child. Not a person.
I get it but then again I don't.

Not sure what ever became of that animal but I know it caused a lot of trouble and was most likely removed. Not my doing.

My go-to move is to insert myself between the advancing dog and my wife and dog - this typically occurs out on walks - and do the calm, but loud and authoritative "NO" - but positioned such that if the dog continues to advance, it has to get thru me first and self defense RoE applies.

Like most on here, I am a dog-lover... but they are DOGS, not people.