Defending against dogs with lethal force?

[MinuteManMike]

Today: heard a yipping dog outside and I thought I heard a female human yelling too. Got outside and across the street was a woman with a lap dog on a leash and a pitbull circling them. Woman was obviously scared, hitting the thing with a thin stick. Pit was ignoring her, quiet and not barking so I figured it's just a dog wants to play but woman was freaking so I went to help.

Pit got dog into mouth, around the neck. And started squeezing. I go to attack it but this Mexican dude appeared out of nowhere holding a blowtorch (?!?) and a 2 foot long 2x4, which he started applying to the body of the pit. Pit didn't care at first, but let go after at least two blows. Yap dog ran away, behind another house. Pit followed. Mexican guy followed them both while I went around, thinking I might cut the pit off. But it was fenced on the side I went to.

Go back to the other side, dude came out, holding yap dog. No sounds from the back. I asked him if he's okay, he says he doesn't speak English. Ooooookay. I did NOT go back to see if he whacked the pit.... pretty sure he did. Not my dogs, not my rodeo.

Now, I didn't foresee this going where it did. The pit was seemingly very calm, so I didn't see that attempted dogicide coming at all. Rethinking, I should have put shoes on (I was teleworking so I don't dress up for work) and grabbed at least a knife.

Because say this pit had changed its mind and went after the woman or me. I live in Lawrence, NE Indy, inside Marion County. I know I'd shoot if I had my gun on me and it came after ME. But I sure didn't prepare for that, I just ran out to help.

I'm really not sure what to think except I need to think ahead more for if there's a next time.

Thoughts?

Also, if anyone knows, is that weird behavior for an attempted dogicide? It chills me, how calm the pit was and how it so casually tried to kill. I didn't hear any growling or barking from it at all the whole time.

 

[CitizenX]

I've had dogs my entire life thus far. You'd be amazed at what they're capable of. Killing another animal is a natural instinct, whether it be for food, defense or territorial issues. A lot of people seem to forget that. Pitbulls have a nasty reputation and can be quite aggressive, even to their owner, if they think they are more superior. The good news is, if a dog is barking it means they aren't biting ... lol. The ones that are circling you, relatively quiet, waiting for your most vulnerable moment, are the ones you need to get away from.
Have you ever tried giving another persons dog a command? Wasting air right there.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Several things come to mind:
First: This is less about breed and more about the specific dog. Discussing breeds of dogs is like discussing "breeds" of people; The White ones do this. The Black ones do that. The Scottish ones do one thing, the Mexican ones do something else. Fill in any group you want, I'm not being prejudicial, I'm saying that SOMEthing can be said of any group.

I have owned pits for many years. The breed has a bad rap. The media inflates this. Are there some that are bad dogs? Sure.... just like there are some people of any group you want to name, divided by sex, by color, by ancestry, whatever, that are bad people.

To the OP:

Is it a valid option to defend against dogs with deadly force? Yes, it is. Before the day comes that you have to, evaluate your local laws and buy an hour of a local attorney's time. One of our members here had a considerable amount of gastric discomfort and some not-insignificant legal fees, I'd imagine, in part because he fired a warning shot to scare the dogs off.

I am NOT pointing fingers with this post. Both attorneys did the job they are sworn to do, defend the interests of their client.

Hope this helps.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jerrob]

You live in Lawrence, heard a ruckus and went outside without a gun or shoes and helped diffuse a potential dog killing with a hysterical woman and a non-English speaking individual and an agressive pitbull?............................and you want advise?
Sounds like you got this **** handled.

 

[Thor]

When a shark is circling you in the water what are you thinking?

Always take a gun. Or a battle axe...or a really big hammer. Don't fight with flip flops; you may be in flip flops but don't fight with them if you don't have to. If you have to anything can be a weapon...they just aren't always the best weapons.

 

[Expat]

So discussing behavior of dog breeds, characteristics that may have been bred into them for centuries, is like discussing racial stereotypes? I had never looked at it that way. Huh.

 

[churchmouse]

Just a note to make sure this thread does not go the way they commonly do please.

OP.....WTH were you thinking. I get the race to action I really do.
But man like Thor said.......SA/be prepared.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Whatever you do, don't fire a warning shot.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Thoughts as to?

Defense of yourself? Same concerns as humans.

Defense of another dog? No. Don't.

I was attacked by a Rottweiler in a sunken road. I recommend a Buick Park Avenue. It did a far better job that my Glock M23 would have done.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Short answer, if the owner did not value her dog enough to put herself between the attacking dog and her own dog, neither would I.

Discharging a firearm near a dwelling typically requires defense of self or others, and others of the human variety, not canine.

IANAL, JMO

 

[LP1]

Thoughts as to?

Defense of yourself? Same concerns as humans.

Defense of another dog? No. Don't.

I was attacked by a Rottweiler in a sunken road. I recommend a Buick Park Avenue. It did a far better job that my Glock M23 would have done.

What about defense of one's own dog?

 

[chezuki]

Thoughts as to?

Defense of yourself? Same concerns as humans.

Defense of another dog? No. Don't.

I was attacked by a Rottweiler in a sunken road. I recommend a Buick Park Avenue. It did a far better job that my Glock M23 would have done.

Nothing matches the stopping power of a Buick.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Anyone keep bear/pepper spray handy for such scenarios?

And, OP, good post and thought provoking... I would say this breaks down to avoiding any "hero" mindset versus "defending" who and what. When defending with a firearm, the guardrails are quite narrow.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What about defense of one's own dog?

Time to slime both dogs.

Have seen the good stuff used on dogs, including police dogs. They do not like it at all, especially nozzle contact range in a bath tub. Officer Chompy made a double quick retreat.

Guns? Yeah, don't.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Anyone keep bear/pepper spray handy for such scenarios?

And, OP, good post and thought provoking... I would say this breaks down to avoiding any "hero" mindset versus "defending" who and what. When defending with a firearm, the guardrails are quite narrow.

If you are carrying a gun, you SHOULD have slime, especially if you are around dogs.

 

[Joniki]

When we lived in town we always carried a cattle prod when walking our dogs. The wife lit up several dogs that came after ours.

 

[LP1]

...One of our members here had a considerable amount of gastric discomfort and some not-insignificant legal fees, I'd imagine, in part because he fired a warning shot to scare the dogs off...

As I recall that situation, in addition to it being a "warning shot", the dogs were on the other side of a fence and were not directly threatening any person. And the shooter was a former LEO; IMO, he should have known better.

BTW, I'm familiar with the location where it happened and am aware of the history of the person who owned the dogs - wacko.

The moral of that story, and many others, is either shoot to end an actual threat, or keep the gun holstered. Does anyone know of a situation where a "warning shot" was fired and it ended well?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Nothing matches the stopping power of a Buick.

Let's do the math, F=MV2

Weight of Buick Park Avenue=>3,800 pounds

Velocity=>IIRC speed limit on 4th street (I walked to and from work at courthouse from Vantage Point, 827-11 South 4th) is 30MPH where I was (just north of Miller Elementary where the train tracks used to be for my fellow Lafayette INGOers).

So . . . yeah, that's lot better than a .40S&W Black Talon bullet.

 

[Kozaturf]

Always take a gun. Or a battle axe...or a really big hammer. Don't fight with flip flops; you may be in flip flops but don't fight with them if you don't have to. If you have to anything can be a weapon...they just aren't always the best weapons.

Because we all know

 

[LP1]

If you are carrying a gun, you SHOULD have slime, especially if you are around dogs.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with "slime". Can you cite a specific product?