Security of a free state

[beararms1776]

It works the same if anyone in America moves to another state. If you drive, reside and work there, your supposed to get legal plates.

 

[Bendrx]

Well this should be easy, DZ get a lawn chair set up at the boarder along one of the coyote crossings (Even though you come is peace, you might want some kind of means of defense - I hear they don't like Americans much), and then E5Ranger, you set up a lawn chair a few hundred yards off said trail. Now both of you can hand out you're own special "Welcome to America Illegally" gifts.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

So you're advocating murder and vigilante justice? And you're wondering why most people who would be opposed to that?

Instead of making an argument disagreeing with the OPs statement, I wonder why you felt it necessary to construe his statement in the worst possible terms? Was that your first impulse, or did you not have a logical argument with which to express your disagreement?

 

[PatriotPride]

I do think Arizona's law is racist and intended to appeal to hyper-nationalist, potentially-racist people who elected them.

I'm not sure if I think travel is a "human right" or not. I do think that our capitalist system demands free trade, though, and that includes labor.

Demanding that citizens use force to enforce our failed policy experiment in drug prohibition is a huge waste of resources, as I see it.

Where to begin. What's so racist about it? Give us CLEAR, CONCISE examples, not conjecture based off of emotion. We're waiting with bated breath.

Another "open border" proponent.

WHY are you dragging the "drug-war" into this argument? This has little to do with the drug-trade, and EVERYTHING to do with securing the border against those who would illegally invade our country. I don't care if you're Canadian, Israeli, Mexican, or Icelandic---you need to enter our country LEGALLY.

 

[dukeboy_318]

DZ why don't you try telling the family of Robert Krentz who was murdered by an illegal immigrant what your opinion of arizonas law and see what they have to say about it

 

[Joe Williams]

DZ why don't you try telling the family of Robert Krentz who was murdered by an illegal immigrant what your opinion of arizonas law and see what they have to say about it

What makes you think that someone who calls defending home and family "murder and vigilante justice" cares one wit about people like Robert Krentz?

 

[dukeboy_318]

What makes you think that someone who calls defending home and family "murder and vigilante justice" cares one wit about people like Robert Krentz?

Oh I highly doubt he'll care either. Im just seeing if he can place himself in the shoes of the families of those people down there being mugged and murdered but he probably wont.

 

[Hawkeye]

Actually I think you're dead wrong about that. Until someone can identify the relevant clause of Article I, Section 8 that gives Congress the authority to restrict who may enter this country, my position is that the government has no power to restrict immigration at all.

"...To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, ..." I, 8 (4).

"...To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, ..." I, 8 (18).

Those pretty much cover it. You may disagree, but that's ok.

 

[Expat]

"...To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, ..." I, 8 (4).

"...To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, ..." I, 8 (18).

Those pretty much cover it. You may disagree, but that's ok.

He will pretend you never posted this the next time the subject comes up. That is what his sort does.

 

[chraland51]

I probably should stay out of this, but can not. I personally know a couple of intellectual types (college professors) that think that our borders should be opened to absolutely everyone who wants to make the effort to enter our country. They disagree with the lifeboat analogy. They think that I should be forced to give up a portion of what I have worked for to re-distribute to those coming into this country that are far less fortunate than I. They think that my standard of living should be decreased so that the standard of those less fortunate can be elevated just because they are now in this country. They feel that I should be the one to learn a new language so that I can communicate with the newcomers. They feel that I should be the one to alter my life style to accommodate those who do not wish to be assimilated. They feel that if the newcomer steals from me or causes me some injury, I should just look the other way because they know no better and probably need what I have much more than I. I have a very liberal ex-wife who is retired from her position as a partner of a large lawfirm who does pro bono work by getting illegals benefits paid for by OUR tax dollars. She recently got an illegal medical and other benefits because he had a borderline personality disorder and could not effectively funtion in his job around other people. I must have a severe personality disorder because I would like to maintain, as Michael Savage says, my borders, language and culture and do not care much to be around or in close proximity to those who do not care if our county is watered down by those who illegally enter and only take while contributing absolutely nothing. I have no respect for those who think that we have no rights to defend our property and our ways of life. Those same people must not read about or listen to the media about what is happening to those areas that have been and are currently being overrun by the illegals entering this country. I have never heard of even one example where the standard of life has been improved when large groups of illegals, who can not even read and understand their own language move into the area. Those people who ridicule our desire to maintain and defend our country can just sit in their little ivory towers and look down on and ridicule us all they want. Just do not get in front of me while I am defending what is mine. Just my two cents

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Those who favor "multiculturalism" seem to forget that America, unlike other countries, got to be great because we accepted everyone who emigrated - as long as they became AMERICANS. If you look at the current troubles of the European nations who have large numbers of foreign-culture menial workers, the problems they are having are largely because they refused to assimilate them into their culture (usually by failing to grant them citizenship, even if born there), whereas in America, we did the opposite; we welcomed those of any culture who moved here (not at first, of course, but eventually) when they joined the American culture. As more and more immigrants are encouraged to "maintain their own ethnicity" at the expense of becoming acculturated in the US, we begin to experience the same problems as other nations in this regard.

If everyone coming to America were forced to support themselves without the help of a "social safety net" (e.g. our hard-earned tax dollars), they would have more incentive to become Americans instead of hyphenated-Americans; they would understand the need to learn the common language; they would understand the need to pursue citizenship; they would feel less need to try to change _our_ culture to accommodate them. Or they would go back home.

A big problem with our Mexican immigrants - legal or otherwise - is that it is so easy to return to Mexico that they have little incentive to join our culture, unlike the Europeans or Asians, or even South Americans who come here to live.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Those who favor "multiculturalism" seem to forget that America, unlike other countries, got to be great because we accepted everyone who emigrated - as long as they became AMERICANS. If you look at the current troubles of the European nations who have large numbers of foreign-culture menial workers, the problems they are having are largely because they refused to assimilate them into their culture (usually by failing to grant them citizenship, even if born there), whereas in America, we did the opposite; we welcomed those of any culture who moved here (not at first, of course, but eventually) when they joined the American culture. As more and more immigrants are encouraged to "maintain their own ethnicity" at the expense of becoming acculturated in the US, we begin to experience the same problems as other nations in this regard.

If everyone coming to America were forced to support themselves without the help of a "social safety net" (e.g. our hard-earned tax dollars), they would have more incentive to become Americans instead of hyphenated-Americans; they would understand the need to learn the common language; they would understand the need to pursue citizenship; they would feel less need to try to change _our_ culture to accommodate them. Or they would go back home.

A big problem with our Mexican immigrants - legal or otherwise - is that it is so easy to return to Mexico that they have little incentive to join our culture, unlike the Europeans or Asians, or even South Americans who come here to live.

Careful there... There's a German banker in trouble for almost those very same words!

 

[OZZY.40]

I do agree that we should secure our borders and that the citizens of Arizona should protect their families and homes. But ask yourself this, could shoot a woman who is carring her baby acroos the border to give that child a better life. Or a father who is trying to provide for his family. If your kids were starving wouldn't you risk going across the border, I would. I am not trying to justify what is going on, but I don't feel that a kill them all mentality is the way to go. We should protect our families and ourselves, and allow the police and national guard( which did arrive down there a few days ago) to secure the border, its what we pay them to do.

 

[Expat]

I do agree that we should secure our borders and that the citizens of Arizona should protect their families and homes. But ask yourself this, could shoot a woman who is carring her baby acroos the border to give that child a better life. Or a father who is trying to provide for his family. If your kids were starving wouldn't you risk going across the border, I would. I am not trying to justify what is going on, but I don't feel that a kill them all mentality is the way to go. We should protect our families and ourselves, and allow the police and national guard( which did arrive down there a few days ago) to secure the border, its what we pay them to do.

You start out with a false premise. No one is shooting people coming across the border. The citizens that have been manning the border have been alerting Border Patrol when they spot illegals coming across.

As to leaving it all up to law enforcement? How's that working out for us so far? For that matter, why do you carry a gun out on the streets.? You should leave your safety up to local law enforcement, that's what they get paid for..

 

[E5RANGER375]

I do agree that we should secure our borders and that the citizens of Arizona should protect their families and homes. But ask yourself this, could shoot a woman who is carring her baby acroos the border to give that child a better life. Or a father who is trying to provide for his family. If your kids were starving wouldn't you risk going across the border, I would. I am not trying to justify what is going on, but I don't feel that a kill them all mentality is the way to go. We should protect our families and ourselves, and allow the police and national guard( which did arrive down there a few days ago) to secure the border, its what we pay them to do.

what kind of a dumb ass mother carrys her baby through a freakin wasteland? come on.

 

[mrjarrell]

what kind of a dumb ass mother carrys her baby through a freakin wasteland? come on.

A desperately poor one. Just like many of our ancestors.

 

[E5RANGER375]

A desperately poor one. Just like many of our ancestors.

no a dumb one. theres no reason a mother cant wait till her child is stronger to come here. they can live over there, they just dont want to. I dont feel sorry for them one bit.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Illegal immigration started back in 1492...they were called white man back then. But as it is, as where we are today, yes there should be something done to stem the tide of illegal drug trafficking and smuggling first and foremost. As these folks are rounded up, you pick up the illegal immigrants with them. Most of the Southwest would not survive their economies without these illegal immigrants taking on menial labor jobs in substandard conditions. This is a bureaucratic problem that needs to be addressed and targeted toward those companies who support "paying" the illegals. If there were no jobs available, they wouldn't be here in the first place. As the economy tanks, those that are here and have no means of work, look to crime to survive, these are the ones to be rounded up and sent back. As others have stated, we just don't start shooting people we see from afar. They could be drug traffickers, smugglers, terrorists or just families trying to evade the conditions on the other side. You don't know the situation until it is confronted. The only way to do that is TOUGHER border control, not the average joe plinking off someone in which he hasn't a clue.

The argument of grabbing your gun to defend your property holds true, in self-defense situations. If it were another country invading, I would be one of the first to grab my stuff and help out, but it's not.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Illegal immigration started back in 1492...they were called white man back then. But as it is, as where we are today, yes there should be something done to stem the tide of illegal drug trafficking and smuggling first and foremost. As these folks are rounded up, you pick up the illegal immigrants with them. Most of the Southwest would not survive their economies without these illegal immigrants taking on menial labor jobs in substandard conditions. This is a bureaucratic problem that needs to be addressed and targeted toward those companies who support "paying" the illegals. If there were no jobs available, they wouldn't be here in the first place. As the economy tanks, those that are here and have no means of work, look to crime to survive, these are the ones to be rounded up and sent back. As others have stated, we just don't start shooting people we see from afar. They could be drug traffickers, smugglers, terrorists or just families trying to evade the conditions on the other side. You don't know the situation until it is confronted. The only way to do that is TOUGHER border control, not the average joe plinking off someone in which he hasn't a clue.

The argument of grabbing your gun to defend your property holds true, in self-defense situations. If it were another country invading, I would be one of the first to grab my stuff and help out, but it's not.

if we went to war with China, do you wanna know how they would try to win? they would send a few million refugees at us through our front lines and force us to feed and shelter them. GAME OVER. so would we be wrong to send them back? I say no. Some people on here have no focus of the real objective and are too soft. The mexican govt IS telling these people to come here and even helping them do it. they even issue ID's to their citizens that are here illegaly. and they print their U.S. addresses on the ID's. WTF???? how can you say we arent being invaded by another country??? I sure wish we could have sent some of the hurricane katrina riff raff to mexico instead of other states. we are getting the bottom of the barrel from mexico. these people mostly have no education and they are a drag on society rather than a bennefit. if you think a mexican working a minimum wage job, is helping our ecconomy then your not thiking properly.
End ALL of the welfare programs to illegals and anchor babies and then it will be a start. also start SEVERELY punishing ALL businesses that knowingly (the key is knowingly) hire illegals. that will get the ball rolling. sure they will all start crying racist..... bla bla bla, i dont give a f***. stick to it and we will have a start. then ammend the constitution so that just because their kids are born here they arent granted citizenship. so then they cant suck our services dry and allow mommy and daddy cockroach to stay here too. problem solved. next rounf them up and kick them out.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

if we went to war with China, do you wanna know how they would try to win? they would send a few million refugees at us through our front lines and force us to feed and shelter them. GAME OVER. so would we be wrong to send them back? I say no. Some people on here have no focus of the real objective and are too soft. The mexican govt IS telling these people to come here and even helping them do it. they even issue ID's to their citizens that are here illegaly. and they print their U.S. addresses on the ID's. WTF???? how can you say we arent being invaded by another country??? I sure wish we could have sent some of the hurricane katrina riff raff to mexico instead of other states. we are getting the bottom of the barrel from mexico. these people mostly have no education and they are a drag on society rather than a bennefit. if you think a mexican working a minimum wage job, is helping our ecconomy then your not thiking properly.
End ALL of the welfare programs to illegals and anchor babies and then it will be a start. also start SEVERELY punishing ALL businesses that knowingly (the key is knowingly) hire illegals. that will get the ball rolling. sure they will all start crying racist..... bla bla bla, i dont give a f***. stick to it and we will have a start. then ammend the constitution so that just because their kids are born here they arent granted citizenship. so then they cant suck our services dry and allow mommy and daddy cockroach to stay here too. problem solved. next rounf them up and kick them out.

I didn't say that having illegals working a minimum wage job is helping our economy. In many instances, they don't even work for minimum wage. Because of the lack of stones in our bureaucratic system, they've allowed this to happen and thus have driven down the cost of goods produced in the Southwest. If those companies had to pay minimum wage to these illegals, they would be out of business, the white people in their white collars jobs who there, would be out of work and the economy in that area tanks, because no one has jobs or money to buy the Tommy Hilfiger and Abercrombie clothes in the outlet malls that are all made in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

I agree about amending the Constitution to eliminate the anchor babies. And I also stressed the need for government to provide tougher border control and security, which means shifting the welfare program money from that pot into the border security pot.

As for the Chinese...hell they could probably overwhelm our army by just coming after use with sticks in the billions. Life is a commodity there without much worth...if a worker dies on the job, just replace with another one.