Security of a free state

[dross]

Well she is not paying income taxes for one. She is breaking the law by coming here for two. You are violating the law by hiring her for three. Then I guess you got to worry about the fact that she might realize how much your kid is worth on the black market, because it's a lot more than you're going to pay her. Of course, if she did decide to do that, you can't really track her to find your kid because any bank account, credit card, or trace of her is someone else's stolen identity. Those are just a few reasons I can think of as to why that might be a bad idea.

Okay, the income taxes I'll concede, even though that's not a particular concern of mine.

I'm discussing the state of law, and what should be the law, so saying it's illegal is beside the point of my question. The risk I take with my kid is mine to assess, and mine alone.

So, your point boils down to, "She doesn't pay income taxes." A citizen who made that little wouldn't pay taxes either, but for argument's sake, let's say I pay a tax or fee to the government for using an undocumented worker.

Now what is your objection?

 

[PatriotPride]

so thats why we develop a illegal alien prisoner work program no sense in not taking advantage of some good chalupa makers

time to build some new bridges anyways i believe.

Exactly. I think all prisoners should be put to work, not just sit around and watch TV courtesy of my tax dollars.

 

[jbombelli]

^^^The problem with imprisoning them is that is STILL takes a HUGE amount of our tax dollars to do so, while providing them with "3 hots and a cot". I agree with some of your points.

I don't think the numbers would be so high if they had no free entitlements until they've been here for a few years for one. Second, the money we'd save on those entitlements would go a long way toward offsetting the costs of incarceration, and finally, I'm a firm believer in inmate work programs. Put them to work fixing our crumbling infrastructure.

Financing the incarceration would be easy.

Ultimately, I'm trying to think up a plan with real, long-term sustainability that will actually work. Killing them at the border will never be allowed, and wouldn't work anyway. They'll go around, under or over any walls we care to build. The current plan isn't working, either.

 

[PatriotPride]

I don't think the numbers would be so high if they had no free entitlements until they've been here for a few years for one. Second, the money we'd save on those entitlements would go a long way toward offsetting the costs of incarceration, and finally, I'm a firm believer in inmate work programs. Put them to work fixing our crumbling infrastructure.

Financing the incarceration would be easy.

Agreed on all counts.

 

[Expat]

Okay, the income taxes I'll concede, even though that's not a particular concern of mine.

I'm discussing the state of law, and what should be the law, so saying it's illegal is beside the point of my question. The risk I take with my kid is mine to assess, and mine alone.

So, your point boils down to, "She doesn't pay income taxes." A citizen who made that little wouldn't pay taxes either, but for argument's sake, let's say I pay a tax or fee to the government for using an undocumented worker.

Now what is your objection?

Children of illegals go to our schools, they get free lunches, free books, etc. I have to pay my kid's way (or did). Who do you think is paying for all of that. It ain't them. How about all of the ER services at the local hospital, driving up the costs for everyone else because the hospital has to get the money to cover it somewhere. How about the welfare services they use. How about the poor guy/gal's identity they are using and ruin his credit. How about all of the money we pay for extra prison space.

 

[dross]

Children of illegals go to our schools, they get free lunches, free books, etc. I have to pay my kid's way (or did). Who do you think is paying for all of that. It ain't them. How about all of the ER services at the local hospital, driving up the costs for everyone else because the hospital has to get the money to cover it somewhere. How about the welfare services they use. How about the poor guy/gal's identity they are using and ruin his credit. How about all of the money we pay for extra prison space.

I don't disagree with what you've said. None of that was in the example I gave, however. Address my example.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Nope. Wrong. MY ancestors (the ones who weren't here already ) immigrated the LEGAL way. They came through Ellis Island like everyone else requesting easement. There is a legal process for foreigners to enter the country and become citizens. They become ILLEGAL INVADERS when they enter the country illegally.

Try again.

Amen to that!

 

[mrjarrell]

Children of illegals go to our schools, they get free lunches, free books, etc. I have to pay my kid's way (or did). Who do you think is paying for all of that. It ain't them. How about all of the ER services at the local hospital, driving up the costs for everyone else because the hospital has to get the money to cover it somewhere. How about the welfare services they use. How about the poor guy/gal's identity they are using and ruin his credit. How about all of the money we pay for extra prison space.

The "illegals" pay for their children's schooling. Just like any renter or homeowner. Renters pay the owners property taxes as part of their rent. If these people are homeowners then they are paying property taxes. That's where school funding comes from in Indiana.

 

[E5RANGER375]

The "illegals" pay for their children's schooling. Just like any renter or homeowner. Renters pay the owners property taxes as part of their rent. If these people are homeowners then they are paying property taxes. That's where school funding comes from in Indiana.

everything your advocating is against America and the constitution. Why dont you go live in mexico with your people?

 

[mrjarrell]

everything your advocating is against America and the constitution. Why dont you go live in mexico with your people?

Wasn't advocating anything, if you can read. Just stating a fact. And "my people", the European portion of them, have been here since 1634, with no Hispanics in my line. Typical of your sort of "argument", tho.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Wasn't advocating anything, if you can read. Just stating a fact. And "my people", the European portion of them, have been here since 1634, with no Hispanics in my line. Typical of your sort of "argument", tho.

well im tired of you and people like you handing out MY money to illegal criminals and the bottom feeders of society because you feel sorry for them. I can read ENGLISH just fine. my sort of arguement? Im an American, and I could give a crap less about anyone who isnt an American, and also care less about Americans who are trying to hand over our country to a bunch of maggots who are the worlds refuse.

and just to make it clear: I AM advocating killing ALL illegals as they cross the border ILLEGALY, and INVADE my country. land mines would be my method of choice. stick a bottle of water on top of it. the rest will get the message real quick. War is Hell!

 

[dom1104]

well im tired of you and people like you handing out MY money to illegal criminals and the bottom feeders of society because you feel sorry for them. I can read ENGLISH just fine. my sort of arguement? Im an American, and I could give a crap less about anyone who isnt an American, and also care less about Americans who are trying to hand over our country to a bunch of maggots who are the worlds refuse.

and just to make it clear: I AM advocating killing ALL illegals as they cross the border ILLEGALY, and INVADE my country. land mines would be my method of choice. stick a bottle of water on top of it. the rest will get the message real quick. War is Hell!

And this... Is where E5Ranger and I part ways on this issue.
This sort of violent hypernationalism is what birthed many evils thruout history.

Land mine traps killing the worlds refuse is FAR too similar to the nazis final solution for my comfort level on like EVERY level.

Again, the solution is somewhere north of this, and south of letting them all in.

Good news is, when the economy collapses, and welfare is no more, they will go home.

 

[jboritzki]

Okay, the income taxes I'll concede, even though that's not a particular concern of mine.

I'm discussing the state of law, and what should be the law, so saying it's illegal is beside the point of my question. The risk I take with my kid is mine to assess, and mine alone.

So, your point boils down to, "She doesn't pay income taxes." A citizen who made that little wouldn't pay taxes either, but for argument's sake, let's say I pay a tax or fee to the government for using an undocumented worker.

Now what is your objection?

You're right, making that little she would get all of her taxes back and then some (of yours and mine) if she was paying taxes. There are a few objections I still have with it. If you cant' afford a maid, then clean your own house (not being rude man, just saying). If we allow what you suggest, then word gets out. More illegal immigrants come to work for basically slave wages, putting maid services out of business or at the very least causing layoffs. She gets sick and the people that do pay income taxes cover that. And who are they paying for? Not a fellow American, but someone that does not have the right to just walk into our country and demand us Americans pay for things that go wrong with her. But if you are talking about it being legal to walk into another country and demanding the tax paying residents of that country buy her groceries, pay for her medical services, and put her in government housing, then I suppose my problem would be that we cannot sustain the cost of that and we should not just because some Americans that can't afford a maid but want to live the high life anyway, decide it's a good idea to start employing the residents of a different nation instead of their own countrymen.

Everyone always wants more anyway. No one is going to be happy, especially after their numbers are in the tens of millions, with making less than Americans that do the same job. They will want and demand more eventually. It's already happened. They came here under the radar and stayed there. Now they have huge marches demanding constitutional protections. They work out in the open and do all kinds of jobs, removing those jobs from the Americans in the market for a job. They stand in Marsh in front of everyone making copies of Social Security cards. They fly the Mexican flag proudly inside of America as if to say "I'm Mexican and I'm in your country illegally and there is nothing you can or will do about it". All of our products have Spanish on them. You have to press 1 for English. And so on and so on. It didn't start out this way but we sure got to this point now, didn't we. Shoot an elephant with a BB gun and it's hardly going to notice. Now do that 15 million times. You're going to have one dead elephant.

 

[E5RANGER375]

And this... Is where E5Ranger and I part ways on this issue.
This sort of violent hypernationalism is what birthed many evils thruout history.

Land mine traps killing the worlds refuse is FAR too similar to the nazis final solution for my comfort level on like EVERY level.

Again, the solution is somewhere north of this, and south of letting them all in.

Good news is, when the economy collapses, and welfare is no more, they will go home.

its ok if you dont agree with me. someone always has to get 2nd place

I truely dont think that most of them will go back if we end their social services. the reason is that there are FAR more and better paying opportunities in America than in mexico or wherever even if they are off the grid.
we are stuck with them unless we start rounding them up.

but first we must secure the borders.

 

[mrjarrell]

well im tired of you and people like you handing out MY money to illegal criminals and the bottom feeders of society because you feel sorry for them. I can read ENGLISH just fine. my sort of arguement? Im an American, and I could give a crap less about anyone who isnt an American, and also care less about Americans who are trying to hand over our country to a bunch of maggots who are the worlds refuse.

and just to make it clear: I AM advocating killing ALL illegals as they cross the border ILLEGALY, and INVADE my country. land mines would be my method of choice. stick a bottle of water on top of it. the rest will get the message real quick. War is Hell!

So, still advocating murder. Add this to your calls for genocide and we have the full deck. You and NHV are two peas from the same pod. You're a whole new type of troll.

 

[E5RANGER375]

So, still advocating murder. Add this to your calls for genocide and we have the full deck. You and NHV are two peas from the same pod. You're a whole new type of troll.

its not murder its national security. they have the option to cross the border knowing the consequences. but of coarse my idea will never happen. people like you would rather see this country continue to be flushed down the toilet, as long as you can keep feeding the world with our money. look in the mirror before you start throwing out names. people died to give you this way of life, and you just **** it away. people like me wont stand for it.

 

[Expat]

Not sure how this happened. Mods please delete this one.

 

[Expat]

its not murder its national security. they have the option to cross the border knowing the consequences. but of coarse my idea will never happen. people like you would rather see this country continue to be flushed down the toilet, as long as you can keep feeding the world with our money. look in the mirror before you start throwing out names. people died to give you this way of life, and you just **** it away. people like me wont stand for it.

Sorry I can't rep you again.

I think most other people get an infraction for calling another member a troll. Wonder if that applies to everyone?

 

[mrjarrell]

its not murder its national security. they have the option to cross the border knowing the consequences. but of coarse my idea will never happen. people like you would rather see this country continue to be flushed down the toilet, as long as you can keep feeding the world with our money. look in the mirror before you start throwing out names. people died to give you this way of life, and you just **** it away. people like me wont stand for it.

Yeah, yeah. We can hear ya. Still sitting in your chair far away from the border and talking a good game. Maybe one of these days you'll work up the huevos and make your way there so you can finally go people hunting. I've heard the prisons in AZ are kinds tough and they give out tickets on the needle express. Can't wait to see your picture in the paper, tough guy. Murder is murder...and you'd find that out pretty quick.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Yeah, yeah. We can hear ya. Still sitting in your chair far away from the border and talking a good game. Maybe one of these days you'll work up the huevos and make your way there so you can finally go people hunting. I've heard the prisons in AZ are kinds tough and they give out tickets on the needle express. Can't wait to see your picture in the paper, tough guy. Murder is murder...and you'd find that out pretty quick.

whatever. wanna compare time out of the chair? I've walked the walk so people like you can keep talking poo out your mouths. I said before that if Arizona officials asked for outside help that I would be there in a heartbeat. but im not willing to go down there and be attached to some racist nut bag who has alterior motives. My motives are to defend America, and nothing more. If you think i get off by killing people then you are dead wrong. but i wont hessitate to do it if neccessary to defend this nation. you call me all sorts of names. thats all you got huh? its ok, i will have satisfaction of knowing you will be one of the people out on the street feasting off your neighbors flesh because you didnt prepare for the mess your failed ideas caused. America will eventualy perge the people who are false patriots.