Another video related to a couple of current threads/classes

[iChokePeople]

I think this is an excellent video that touches on some points that some of us have been discussing recently in a class thread, a possible class/feeler thread, a couple of others. There's a little NSFW language in there, so NSFW NSFW LANGUAGE WARNING, but not much. Or maybe I'm an old Marine and don't really notice it or something. Whatever. If you wonder about the shark thing, there's an old quote attributed to either Rickson Gracie or one of the Machados, mostly, that uses an analogy of a shark -- that the ground (ground fighting/grappling/wrestling) is the ocean, trained ground fighters are like sharks, and most people don't even know how to swim. So with that background...

[video=youtube;STAqTwaojOM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STAqTwaojOM[/video]

 

[Coach]

Great video that is dripping so much truth. Most people have no idea how unprepared they are. Hollywood does us no favors either with all the chicks beating up dudes in the TV shows and movies. Myth building and a false sense of security at its finest.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Lol @ the TKD kiddies. In all ways.

 

[mcjon77]

Great video!

Maybe I am just not competitive enough, but getting tapped/losing has always been a positive experience for me. It tells me that there is something to learn. The first time I was exposed to Jiu Jitsu was back in 1996, when I was a freshman in college. I had wrestled a little in high school and was taking karate at the time. It was a university club and everyone was a beginner. The club president had only been studying for a year himself, mostly through seminars. In fact it was originally a Japanese Jiu jitsu club that started shifting to BJJ.

Anyway, the first day I was there I rolled with this white belt girl. She was maybe 130 lbs, I was close to 300 lbs, so double her size. I remember when she got on my back. It felt like a little kid. i thought it was funny and wondered why she did that, until she started choking me. In seconds I realized that I had ZERO idea how to get out of the situation and tapped immediately.

For some reason her and the instructor thought I might be upset at being tapped out by a girl. I told them that I thought it was AWESOME. This was the first time that I had EVER seen a martial art that had a realistic chance against a significantly bigger and stronger opponent. My feelings were that if she can do that to me then I want to learn how to do that too.

Shooting classes are the same way. I am here to learn, not show everyone how good I think that I am. In fact, I tend to go into classes assuming that I am going to be the worst/least skilled person in the room. It really helps open one up to what is being taught. Sucking at something is a sign that you CAN improve and grow. This constant striving for improvement and growth is why we are sitting in our homes, reading this on a computer and not sitting in some tree eating bananas and picking flies out of our mates fur.

Once my wrist is healed up, I plan on checking out the local BJJ schools.

 

[Jackson]

I have nothing more to add. I will say that I had iCP smashing me on the floor and up against the wall a little bit earlier this evening. I think it was an opportunity for growth and self-exploration.

 

[iChokePeople]

Not true ^^. Jackson was having his way with me.

You've improved a lot. Your survival skills are solid, and you didn't seem to panic -- I think that's a big deal. Being able to pace yourself, being able to know that you're basically safe and wait while the other guy expends energy, that's a solid set of skills.

 

[Jackson]

If "having my way with you" means being pressed against the wall, or contorted in odd positions and unable to stop the pass.... Then I guess I was beating you handily. I'm not sure most would agree with your definition. The rest of this may not make much sense to readers since they didn't see us roll. I'm going to throw out some thoughts just to give a first-hand perspective on what the video is talking about. For a little background, iCP has about 4 inches in height and 50-60 lbs on me (I don't know what he weighs. I'm guessing). He's also been doing Jiu Jitsu for several years. I've been doing it for 1. So there is a wide skill gap, and a wide strength gap. Without his taking it easy I would get owned.

So these are my thoughts on rolling with someone like that. I'm a total amateur. So some of what I say may be totally wrong.

Being pressed in to the corner makes me claustrophobic and its hard to breathe. My head felt like I was in a hole. I was breathing my own hot air. I was completely out of breath just from trying to keep enough space to keep breathing. (Yeah, out of breath from trying to breathe. That's how out of shape I am.) You can be sure I wanted out.

I think I can climb up the wall, but really only if he lets me. I know in the back of my mind this is true. Its easy to feel overwhelmed. It is very hard to concentrate on what I should be doing next. But concentrating on what to do is the thing that keeps that panic/claustrophobic feeling at bay. Deciding I have no answer is deciding to give up. Deciding to give up is one step toward deciding to panic.

I win (and I use the term win to mean "not die") by first maintaining what little space and position I have. When I lose it, I gain it back by the inch, not by some fancy move that instantly gets me out. I feel good when I can get back to guard, or just keep him from totally controlling my hands. These are my victories. They are small, but these are the victories I can get.

And he's not even going half speed.

As far as panic, that was never really my thing. I'm more likely to get overwhelmed and freeze up and just wait for something to change where I have an answer. Its easy to get lost in the situation if I don't have a trained and close to automatic response to whatever problem I'm facing. Even if I know what I should do, I often recognize it just a bit too late. Without that timing it becomes really hard to execute.

When I don't have an answer at all, which is still pretty often, I just try to wait it out and figure out what the other guy is doing.

I try to make class twice a week. I try to roll at least three rounds, typically five or six minutes each, during each night's open mat session. So I maybe have 600 minutes of mat time. Maybe 10 hours of open rolling. One year of attending class and only 10 hours of real rolling time.

I'm making some pretty loose estimates. When I started I couldnt stay for open mat until I'd been there a certain amount of time. Now I try to stay for more than three. So I'm guessing some here. But even if I'm off by 100%, its still only 20 hours. Like the video said, that's just not enough to become an expert. This also doesnt include the hour of skill work and drilling each night. So maybe 100 hours of that. 120 total hours of practice with 20 hours of live rolling in a year of training.

However, even with that relatively small amount of time I have seen significant improvements in several areas. As bad as my conditioning is, it is miles ahead of when I started. I am much more comfortable. I have at least an idea how to defend and recover a better position. Typically against other people with similar experience I could get up and break contact and that's my biggest goal.

 

[Jackson]

An what is really disconcerting... There are plenty of guys out there, probably some at our gym, that can do to him what he did to me, and with a similar amount of effort.

 

[iChokePeople]

That is SUCH an excellent post, and shows a ton of genuine understanding of some of the ideas in the video that started this thread. You've learned to SURVIVE. You've learned to stay calm, buy time, protect yourself, and stay in the fight. You're looking at it as a problem to solve rather than giving up. You're in better shape. You're testing yourself and applying real pressure. I'm sure your martial arts BS detector has improved. You are definitely harder to kill than you were a year ago. For whatever it's worth, I give you HUGE kudos for what you've done, what you've learned, where you are, the commitment to stick with it even though it's way out of your way and a much bigger time commitment for you than for most. I threw lots of little tests at you to see how you'd do. Your balance is good, you protected your neck when I threatened it, you protected your limbs when I threatened them, good base and posture, really, a solid ground game.

Seriously, very cool.

 

[chezuki]

Would there be any benefit in a big fat **** such as myself getting involved in something like this, or would I be better served getting my machine in serviceable condition before attempting to run with others? I imagine any part I'm physically capable of doing would help me get in better shape, but I'm not sure how beneficial it would be to other students.

 

[Jackson]

Well, unlike most of the INGO readership, I wasn't born a badass who's never lost a fight. I realize I have to work at it more than most just to get the small improvements I've achieved.

If the total sum of everything we've posted in the T&T section gets just one person to drop the ego or the fear of the unknown and go experience real training with talented instructors (whether its shooting, or fighting, or whatever), I think we've achieved something.

 

[Jackson]

Would there be any benefit in a big fat **** such as myself getting involved in something like this, or would I be better served getting my machine in serviceable condition before attempting to run with others? I imagine any part I'm physically capable of doing would help me get in better shape, but I'm not sure how beneficial it would be to other students.

I used that excuse for years. Its crap and it's holding you back unnecessarily. If I was a brand new shooter and I told you I wanted to practice some more before I went to a training class what would you say?

The truth is that you will get more benefit than most of the people who go, even if that benefit is just getting in shape.

Now, not all schools are the same and I've really only experienced the one. However, I believe that most martial arts instructors in general genuinely want to see you improve to your potential. They want to see you improve from wherever you are. I would highly encourage you to go check some places out and find one that feels comfortable. Take it at your pace.

There is a ton of low-speed skill work and focused drilling that happens that you'd get a lot out of. Even that part is a great workout if you're not in shape. Getting smashed on the wall by iCP represents 10 minutes of the three hours I was there, and that part was elective. I didn't have to do it.

 

[rhino]

Would there be any benefit in a big fat **** such as myself getting involved in something like this, or would I be better served getting my machine in serviceable condition before attempting to run with others? I imagine any part I'm physically capable of doing would help me get in better shape, but I'm not sure how beneficial it would be to other students.

You probably were not soliciting my opinion, but after watching you, you're athletic and agile enough to do that stuff. You might get tired faster than you want, but everyone needs activity-specific conditioning when they start.

 

[Jackson]

You probably were not soliciting my opinion, but after watching you, you're athletic and agile enough to do that stuff. You might get tired faster than you want, but everyone needs activity-specific conditioning when they start.

Everyone wants the rhino's opinion.

 

[rhino]

Everyone wants the rhino's opinion.

I'm not going to respond to a crazed spider monkey jacked-up on Mtn Dew, sir.

 

[jdhaines]

I know I've posted this on INGO before, but ICP's post which pulls part of a conversation between Joe Rogan and Sam Harris +++ the shark analogy comment leads to a perfect set-up for one of the best written articles on grappling ever:

The Pleasures of Drowning : Sam Harris

The fact that he references Chris Haueter and Matt Thornton of SBG (Straight Blast Gym) is icing on an already awesome cake. Seriously read it.

 

[iChokePeople]

Excellent article, and I love this from Thornton -- I hope it's ok to post this kind of comment:

Matt Thornton writes: I agree we need all three ranges—stand up, clinch and ground—for self-defense; and, in general, we want to avoid going to the ground in a fight. However, the best way to ensure that you will end up on the ground is to never train there in the first place. It’s the non-grapplers who are easiest to take down, and being in a “fight” means it isn’t necessarily up to you where you end up. So, it’s a bit of irony that wanting to stay off the ground in a self-defense situation should dictate a serious commitment to grappling.

 

[Jackson]

Excellent article, and I love this from Thornton -- I hope it's ok to post this kind of comment:

Matt Thornton writes: I agree we need all three ranges—stand up, clinch and ground—for self-defense; and, in general, we want to avoid going to the ground in a fight. However, the best way to ensure that you will end up on the ground is to never train there in the first place. It’s the non-grapplers who are easiest to take down, and being in a “fight” means it isn’t necessarily up to you where you end up. So, it’s a bit of irony that wanting to stay off the ground in a self-defense situation should dictate a serious commitment to grappling.

That's what I've been saying.

 

[Cygnus]

Chez,

The others are correct. You can start now. Just stretch and slowly add a few days of moderate cario and ramp up. I am middleaged fart that was an old mid/late80's striker. (Thankfully the TKD/kickboxing studio was in Detroit and they taught us some wrestling and basic judo & knife) Got into watchng the early UFC's and dabbled a bit in BJJ about 15 years ago. I got wicked out of shape and and a few years back decided to end that and lost 40 pounds. I am looking to train a bit for the fitness factor and to regain some rusty skills. I had sparse but quality BJJ training. I did a ten lesson punchcard at a place outside Detroit that did Machado BJJ as well as dirty boxing. I also did a 2 day seminar with Royce. I picked up a few things that stuck with me and would be immensly useful in a real world situation. I would love to see it appled to retention like some of you are discussing here and other threads.
I'd let you guys beat me up a bit......LOL.

Chez, you can step in for me


Oh and regarding takedown defense and strikers. Yeah, if you don't train for it or worse yet have no technique to use, you "can't swim"
I recall an old very good kickboxer from the early UFC's named Pat Smth said it best "If you can't fight on the ground, you can't fight" (Unless you are Chuck Liddel......I know, he trained. He had a masterful takedown defense)

 

[rhino]

(Unless you are Chuck Liddel......I know, he trained. He had a masterful takedown defense)

Wasn't his takedown defense pretty much just punching the other guy in the head and face really, really hard?