Will you take the Covid Vaccine?

[4651feeder]

What are the expected consequences to someone currently suffering from undiagnosed Covid who gets a vaccine?

 

[jamil]

What are the expected consequences to someone currently suffering from undiagnosed Covid who gets a vaccine?

That's a good question, but I think should have been answered in the trials. Surely some of those people who participated had covid. It would be irresponsible to approve a vaccine with that question unanswered.

 

[shibumiseeker]

... the same can hold true of supplements, yet we feel like because they're "natural" they only have benefits. So perception is the decider on what we put into our bodies, not knowledge about it.

I talk about this in my classes when I talk about pharmacology. Arsenic is natural and at a small dose will not demonstrably hurt you. Foxglove is only a plant and we make powerful medicine from it for heart conditions (digitalis) that can help you in the right dose and kill you quickly in the wrong dose (with that difference being fairly small). The nicotine contained in one pack of cigarettes would kill most adults if administered all at once. H2S in the body is part of how we regulate certain cellular reactions, but breathed in can kill you in the parts per million.

I always get a chuckle too about how some very experienced long time drug users would have benefitted society if they'd put their knowledge of how their bodies respond to the things they put into them towards pharmacological research instead of recreation.

Research is not cut and dried and straight forward in most of the sciences, but the media and politicians and pundits and those citizens out there trying to score political points in endless online discussion groups and social media try to use highly incomplete understandings of how that research is done and the results thereof to "prove" their agendas.

It's like being an experienced mechanic. You're not always going to be right about what is wrong with the car and sometimes it's going to take a few tries to get it right, and people are mostly going to remember the times you got it wrong. With all that, people will still do better taking their car to that person, rather than some random guy whose knowledge about your car comes from reading the owner's manual and looking at the advertisements for that model.

 

[cobber]

I don't deal with vaccines much, but I think usually the allergy is to a component. some are made using eggs and such. I think they were fairly confident no major allergens in these vaccines and I don't think they expected anaphylaxis.

one article said "anaphylactoid" which means something directly stimulates the allergy cascade without having a preformed antibody. I wonder if that's what's going on here. Dye for CT scans is like that.



you take the shot again and find out

I'm going to buy a lottery ticket too. Maybe lightning will strike twice?

 

[Libertarian01]

Agreed. But. About putting things into our bodies that we don't fully understand, the same can hold true of supplements, yet we feel like because they're "natural" they only have benefits. So perception is the decider on what we put into our bodies, not knowledge about it.

Yeah, supplements are a topic that is very much based upon marketing and misunderstanding. EVERYTHING I've read/heard that comes from credible dieticians and scientists says that, unless you have specific disorder, the average American will get everything they need from eating normal, balanced meals.

We can gain information through a variety of methods. The method I choose to use regarding the concept of using the new vaccines is based upon decades of research and science. The basic fact is that it takes years and years of research to fully understand how a drug or vaccine may interact with the extremely complex human body. To date, that indepth research has not been done on any of the vaccines being or about to be released. With that in mind my comfort level is low regarding the risk / reward component of the equation. I understand the basic reward, becoming nearly immune to COVID, but to me the risk is unknown. Ergo, I'll wait.

Regards,

Doug

 

[shibumiseeker]

We can gain information through a variety of methods. The method I choose to use regarding the concept of using the new vaccines is based upon decades of research and science. The basic fact is that it takes years and years of research to fully understand how a drug or vaccine may interact with the extremely complex human body. To date, that indepth research has not been done on any of the vaccines being or about to be released. With that in mind my comfort level is low regarding the risk / reward component of the equation. I understand the basic reward, becoming nearly immune to COVID, but to me the risk is unknown. Ergo, I'll wait.

Regards,

Doug

And THIS is a rational decision making process for oneself. No hysteria, no picking and choosing anecdotes to "prove" ones point. I can respect a person's choice based on these criteria. What I can't respect is when people try to push their views they hold on other people's decision making process (no matter what those views are) because they need to validate their own decisions.

 

[gunworks321]

NO! I also remember when on active duty Navy, annual flu shot was mandatory and you could be court martialed if you didn't get one. I had a severe reaction the first time and had a waiver letter from then on.

 

[dusty88]

Yeah, supplements are a topic that is very much based upon marketing and misunderstanding. EVERYTHING I've read/heard that comes from credible dieticians and scientists says that, unless you have specific disorder, the average American will get everything they need from eating normal, balanced meals.

We can gain information through a variety of methods. The method I choose to use regarding the concept of using the new vaccines is based upon decades of research and science. The basic fact is that it takes years and years of research to fully understand how a drug or vaccine may interact with the extremely complex human body. To date, that indepth research has not been done on any of the vaccines being or about to be released. With that in mind my comfort level is low regarding the risk / reward component of the equation. I understand the basic reward, becoming nearly immune to COVID, but to me the risk is unknown. Ergo, I'll wait.

Regards,

Doug

I absolutely agree.

I would type the same sentence for a virus that emerged just a year ago. "The basic fact is that it takes years and years of research to fully understand how a virus may interact with the extremely complex human body."

Even now, there are more cases of people who had mild symptoms of Covid then months later have lung lesions that are likely attributable to SARSCov2 (based on similar lesions of others with SARSCov2 and the original SARS).

Viruses sometimes cause long term organ damage, immune-complex conditions, and precipitate cancerous growths.

Coronaviruses in cats are often mild and asymptomatic, but the same virus will mutate in some cats, get in their white blood cells and cause a fulminating systemic reaction that is just as bad as having tumors all over your abdomen or fluid in your chest.

Unfortunately, it's going to be difficult in the US to avoid BOTH the virus and the vaccine.

 

[smokingman]

Well we have the all clear from the pope.

The Vatican on Monday declared that it is “morally acceptable” for Roman Catholics to receive COVID-19 vaccines based on research that used cells derived from aborted fetuses.

Much of the Vatican’s pronouncement had echoes in a statement last week by officials of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. The U.S. conference officials said that “in view of the gravity of the current pandemic and the lack of availability of alternative vaccines,” receiving the vaccines being distributed in the United States is justified “despite their remote connection to morally compromised cell lines.”
Getting vaccinated against the coronavirus “ought to be understood as an act of charity toward the other members of our community,” the U.S. bishops conference officials said.

https://apnews.com/article/europe-c...pope-francis-476fedf6a30e32c4c3d294027dd3c606

 

[d.kaufman]

images upload

 

[CampingJosh]

Well we have the all clear from the pope.

The Vatican on Monday declared that it is “morally acceptable” for Roman Catholics to receive COVID-19 vaccines based on research that used cells derived from aborted fetuses.

We actually don't know that the stem cells came from abortion(s). It's possible that the original donor was a miscarriage.

I realize which is more likely, but the reality is that no babies were aborted for the purpose of developing this vaccine.

 

[CampingJosh]

EVERYTHING I've read/heard that comes from credible dieticians and scientists says that, unless you have specific disorder, the average American will get everything they need from eating normal, balanced meals.

This is largely true, but the issue is that "normal" American meals are not balanced meals.

My wife is a registered dietitian. We eat differently than most Americans, and we take one supplement between the two of us, and it is one of those "specific disorder" issues you mentioned. And the supplement I take isn't really even a dietary supplement, as it's not something normally acquired from food. (I take a vitamin D supplement, but I have history of skin cancer that means I need to avoid sunlight on my skin, which is how most people produce vitamin D.)

 

[Route 45]

This is largely true, but the issue is that "normal" American meals are not balanced meals.

Not so. I put my Sausage McMuffin and hash browns from breakfast on a scale the other day, and it balanced perfectly with the McRib and fries that I had for lunch on the other side of the scale.

Yin Yang. Checkmate, dieticians.

 

[OneBadV8]

Not so. I put my Sausage McMuffin and hash browns from breakfast on a scale the other day, and it balanced perfectly with the McRib and fries that I had for lunch on the other side of the scale.

Yin Yang. Checkmate, dieticians.

 

[KittySlayer]

Heard Dr. Fauchi was getting vaccinated today. Was he waiting on the Maderna instead of the Pfizer? Does he have access to inside info?

My inside rumor is there is a planned data dump first week of January with more trials results as well as first round of vaccines results.

 

[femurphy77]

Just got it, still alive. Never seen a needle that long before though.

 

[jamil]

images upload

I mean. I think it's hilarious. I'd liked to have seen that for a good laugh.

 

[HoughMade]

This is largely true, but the issue is that "normal" American meals are not balanced meals...

Absolutely. Just knowing what a "balanced meal" is ain't all that easy.

We are carb and sugar HEAVY...well, not me, but the royal "we".

 

[jamil]

This is largely true, but the issue is that "normal" American meals are not balanced meals.

My wife is a registered dietitian. We eat differently than most Americans, and we take one supplement between the two of us, and it is one of those "specific disorder" issues you mentioned. And the supplement I take isn't really even a dietary supplement, as it's not something normally acquired from food. (I take a vitamin D supplement, but I have history of skin cancer that means I need to avoid sunlight on my skin, which is how most people produce vitamin D.)

If you're missing something in your diet, supplements are going to be the only way you can get it. I know someone who has allergies to certain foods, and takes supplements to get the needed nutrients they're missing because they don't eat those foods. Also, I know some vegans who take B12 supplements. And in my own experience, like many oldish males, I have BHP. I take saw palmetto which does have clinical research behind it. I first tried the pharma route and have taken Flowmax for it but I really don't like the side effects. The Dr suggested I should try saw palmetto and that works for me so far.

 

[Bennettjh]

Not so. I put my Sausage McMuffin and hash browns from breakfast on a scale the other day, and it balanced perfectly with the McRib and fries that I had for lunch on the other side of the scale.

Yin Yang. Checkmate, dieticians.

My wife gets hers the 28th. She was reluctant at first but now she's ready.