What advice do you give to a kid going off to college?

[HoughMade]

Chicago.

One of our pastors went there, and I have great respect for it; good school.


Around here, most go to Grace in Warsaw. HoughMade had at least one of his go there.

My older daughter is a 2022 graduate of Moody- River North in Chicago. My Mom is a 1961 graduate.
My older son is a 2019 graduate of Grace College in Winona Lake. Both are good schools.
My younger daughter is entering her sophomore year at Olivet Nazarene University in Bourbonnais, IL. Also a good school.
To round things out, my favorite child, my younger son is going to welding school in a couple of months.
My wife and I are graduates of what it now called Cornerstone University in Grand Rapids, MI. It was Grand Rapids Baptist College in those days. Other good schools are Cedarville in Ohio, Biola in California, and on and on and on. There are plenty of good colleges that would not be very "woke", even for STEM (Letourneau University in Texas, an excellent engineering school, comes to mind).

All colleges will have some "woke" people around Including Grace, Moody and ONU. Theologically conservative Christian colleges will have a much fewer, but it will be there. The other issue is that these colleges tend to be more expensive than state schools. So, you say, we're conservative but not religious. OK, there are a very few colleges, but for whatever reason (I'm not going to debate it here), non-"wokeism" and faith seem to travel together often.

All that being said, it's really about how well you've prepared the kids to enter the world and hold fast to their beliefs, isn't it? State school, liberal, whatever, you can't rip a kid from their foundations when the foundation is deep and strong.

With all that being said, I would be more concerned with what I said, and did and taught and lived in the 18 or so years before college than what I said when they leave.

 

[funeralweb]

Watch out for the woke crowd and ideology. It leads nowhere good and might as well solidify those values now. The herd is becoming dumber. Surround yourself with friends of strong character and solid values to avoid the herd. College is a great place to learn independence heading into a career and future family.

Find a degree in something they think they would enjoy, which also has good job security and pay. Consider a field that could have a pension with a company. A 30 to 35 yr career will pay well being able to retire in ones mid 50s without debt. Speaking of debt, don't get trapped by any student loan enticements if at all possible. Junior colleges are a great lower cost option and they can have 2 yr programs set up to transfer into a 4 yr college.

If inclined, strongly consider technical trades which have been disappearing for quite some time. This could also allow one to work for themselves, which will likely be even more important in the future.

I highlighted two points that go hand in hand. MONITOR any and all advice your student will be receiving from advisors on campus. Some of that wokeness will hide in plain sight as they try to steer students away from what they wanted to pursue and try to funnel them into courses or even changes in major to stuff that is a waste of tuition dollars and leaves your student with a (turd emoji) degree in something that won't even pay the electric bills of the basement they'll be moving back into. Vigilance, parents....

 

[Lmo1131]

Same thing my dad told me when l headed off to Purdue in 1969; remember YOU are paying to be there, and don’t take any sh*t from anyone. He specifically meant ‘staff’.

 

[JettaKnight]

Along this same thought, “grow” can also mean “change”. The influences you keep around you in your 20’s can be massively formative to your behavior and belief system. So many kids I knew growing up went total 180 from the good values they were raised in because of friends and influences in their college years.

You're not wrong. I did find my true love in college - gin.


And the other way, too.

I used to volunteer with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. I love working with college kids - they aren't afraid to say what's on their mind and just want the truth.

 

[JettaKnight]

#3 is painful for me, but I'm an engineering manager, and I will flat out tell you that STEM jobs are being sent out of this country at a staggering rate because companies do not want to pay an "American" wage to the people doing them. A STEM degree is better than many, but the days when it assured you of a stable career are over. Every time a factory gets shut down and sent overseas, dozens of engineers, IT people, technicians, programmers, etc. lose their jobs. People with STEM degrees are going to have to be as nimble, adaptable, and resourceful in maintaining their career paths as people with Liberal Arts degrees had to be in past decades. There is no safe career field anymore. NADA. (Even health care is getting sketchy, depending on what part of it you are in).

Nothing is ever "safe", but I'm calling BS on the engineering.

Wages are rapidly increasing and inverting - new grads being paid more than 5 year employees. I simply can't find enough engineers for what I need to do.

There's some engineering jobs that will never go oversees, e.g. defense contractors.

 

[JEBland]

On the academic side (all of my background is STEM/science, I don't know what other people with their days):

1. Learning is a state of confusion. The process of learning is being confused, resolving that confusion, then being confused about the next thing. It's frustrating, but normal.
2. If faced with a problem that he/she finds difficult to understand, study it backwards and forwards. See #1
3. Some days work is work (and college should be good work) - going through the motions happens. Put your shoulder to the task.
4. Keep an open mind. Every time I've ever told myself "this thing is useless" in math, I've been proven wrong. Might be 2 weeks later, might be 2 years. And, relatedly,
5. A bachelor's education is a shallow survey of a field. In order to keep the courses open to as many students as possible, the connections are often left for later (grad school). Try to see how things are related within a field when entering advanced courses (this is still 1.5-2 years out). Real tasks/projects in the world use a little of this and a little of that to understand the full system.

Non-academic advice:

1. Know your flaws and work to correct them. If he/she never tries anything new, try something new. If he/she starts a thousand projects but never finishes them, build the disciple to complete one thing at a time. Passion and discipline are both important.
2. Don't make excuses in order to do things you know are wrong. We make plenty of mistakes and intemperate decisions. We don't need to do them on purpose and chalk it up to youth. Those lessons will happen on their own.

A quick word on the woke-ism concerns:
Critical thinking and inquisitiveness don't seem to drastically change in time. While I've seen 180 degree flips, the level of enthusiasm for the fascination of the minute is the same. It's true that in college we're imbibed with all sorts of half-truths about social issues, religious matters, and cultural norms. But it's not like there is no one of similar minds to us INGOers in college, even at hipster public colleges. Your youngin' will probably be affected to some degree but not all is lost. Part of that learning in #1 is misstepping, do what you can to prevent permanent harm, but some of these just have to be learned firsthand. Besides, it gives you a great chance to sharpen your arguments against ideas you think are gibberish. I spent most of grad school saying "No, no, no, that's not what they're saying!" and turned out quite conservative just trying to put things on balance. (Though, myself and many like me do make mistakes in our zeal to be fair - Looking at you, John Roberts.) Some people are receptive to entertaining ideas and testing them; some are not.
I don't know you or your kid. I don't know it that's helpful, but that's my thinking on it.

 

[1nderbeard]

About eight years out from my last college experience as of now, some observations:

-STEM or nothing. Humanities and etc degrees don't teach any hard, marketable skills to justify today's enormously inflated costs. When you ask about this, the answer you get is "you learn those in grad school". Humanities undergrads exist solely to upsell you.

-You have abundant free time and the metabolism of a 20 year old. Use all those facilities you're paying for, crush it at the gym and build your fitness and lifelong good habits. Don't be a slob alone in a dorm room.

-You'll see a lot of stupid people do very stupid things. Those are valuable lessons. Don't be afraid to go out and watch some ships sink, just make sure you're not handcuffed to the rail.

-PROFESSORS GIVE YOU POINTS FOR SHOWING UP AND TALKING. Go to class. Attend class. Ask questions. You are paying through the nose for this, so at least show up and be there for it.

Here's the real controversial one: Date with purpose, because it doesn't get any easier with age and this will be the best opportunity of your entire life to set yourself up with someone who matches you and has the potential to be a Serious Person. Everyone will be screaming at you to stay casual but, I assure you, you do NOT want to be bottom feeding on leftovers in your 30s. Happiness is married senior year and kids by 26.

solid advice here.

 

[Creedmoor]

My older daughter is a 2022 graduate of Moody- River North in Chicago. My Mom is a 1961 graduate.
My older son is a 2019 graduate of Grace College in Winona Lake. Both are good schools.
My younger daughter is entering her sophomore year at Olivet Nazarene University in Bourbonnais, IL. Also a good school.
To round things out, my favorite child, my younger son is going to welding school in a couple of months.
My wife and I are graduates of what it now called Cornerstone University in Grand Rapids, MI. It was Grand Rapids Baptist College in those days. Other good schools are Cedarville in Ohio, Biola in California, and on and on and on. There are plenty of good colleges that would not be very "woke", even for STEM (Letourneau University in Texas, an excellent engineering school, comes to mind).

All colleges will have some "woke" people around Including Grace, Moody and ONU. Theologically conservative Christian colleges will have a much fewer, but it will be there. The other issue is that these colleges tend to be more expensive than state schools. So, you say, we're conservative but not religious. OK, there are a very few colleges, but for whatever reason (I'm not going to debate it here), non-"wokeism" and faith seem to travel together often.

All that being said, it's really about how well you've prepared the kids to enter the world and hold fast to their beliefs, isn't it? State school, liberal, whatever, you can't rip a kid from their foundations when the foundation is deep and strong.

With all that being said, I would be more concerned with what I said, and did and taught and lived in the 18 or so years before college than what I said when they leave.

Can I ask why he chose welding school over a apprentiship?

 

[Twangbanger]

Nothing is ever "safe", but I'm calling BS on the engineering.

Wages are rapidly increasing and inverting - new grads being paid more than 5 year employees. I simply can't find enough engineers for what I need to do.

There's some engineering jobs that will never go oversees, e.g. defense contractors.

That is my field, and have had to pay counter-offers to get the people I was allowed to hire. But - my department is also shrinking over time. Twice as many people have retired, as I have hired. And I don't have authorization to replace any more. The net trend is down. New grads are still getting good offers, while the industry overall is shrinking. One doesn't mean the other isn't true.

I think the kids are getting good offers because most of them are seeing what is happening to the industry, and not as many of them are flooding into it. We are finally seeing what needed to happen, to support good wages - the schools are no longer able to cram more graduates into the market than the market can bear. There are less graduates available. The kids are starting to figure it out, and not as many are going to lace up their tennis shoes and try to outrun each other for a shrinking market. The ones who are exceptionally interested will have a place. Many others will not.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Have fun, enjoy, and learn what you can cuz you are paying for it.
But you only get one chance at this thing called life... Make it worth while.
P.S. It could all end at any moment.

 

[Destro]

Each class is just a semester, your not going to change the world in a semester. Play the game and move on.

Don't let people who didn't go/weren't successful at higher education discourage you from doing what is right for YOU.

 

[JettaKnight]

I work in defense contracting, and have had to pay counter-offers to get the people I was allowed to hire. But - my department is also shrinking over time. Twice as many people have retired, as I have hired. And I don't have authorization to replace any more. The net trend is down. New grads are still getting good offers, while the industry overall is shrinking. One doesn't mean the other isn't true.

I think the kids are getting good offers because most of them are seeing what is happening to the industry, and not as many of them are flooding into it. We are finally seeing what needed to happen, to support good wages - the schools are no longer able to cram more graduates into the market than the market can bear. There are less graduates available. The kids are starting to figure it out, and not as many are going to lace up their tennis shoes and try to outrun each other for a shrinking market. The ones who are exceptionally interested will have a place. Many others will not.

In Fort Wayne there's a trend for folks to shift between the four or five major players depending on the ebb and flow of contracts.

Then there's the dozens of smaller firms looking to compete.

 

[JettaKnight]

Each class is just a semester, your not going to change the world in a semester. Play the game and move on.

Don't let people who didn't go/weren't successful at higher education discourage you from doing what is right for YOU.

Back at Purdue in engineering, "'D' stands for done." Lick your wounds, take the win, just don't make a habit of it.

 

[canebreaker]

Don't waste your time and my money if you're not going to pursue a career.

 

[thelefthand]

1. Learn the difference between investing, spending, and wasting because you're on your own now and you're about to waste more time and money than your likely to see or have for another 15 to 20 years.

2. Jobs
A. They suck.
B. They suck less than being broke.
C. They suck a LOT less than watching your family do without because you haven't learned the difference between investing, spending, and wasting.
D. It's not the job, it's the attitude you approach it with.

3. Before you spend a lot of time and money trying g to learn something, find a few people who've been successful in that area and buy them lunch a few times. Ask them what they did to achieve that success. Consider whether or not their path to success is still viable or not. If it is, decide if you are willing and able to do more work than they did to achieve their results. Then you will know whether you are investing in your future, spending your time and money hoping it will pay off, or wasting your resources you will never be able to recover.

 

[thelefthand]

Understood, but for many Liberal Elites Universities are the only way. Prime Example our son elected to follow in my footsteps . He is now a Paris Island Alumni. My Wife’s Mother started a college Fund for him in which she revoked because if he decides not to re up he is going to attend a Nationally recognized and accredited Trade School. He has no desire and for him to attend a University is not something he is going to do. But according to my MIL by marriage only he will surely burn in **** and be destined to be a failure in life unless he attends the U of M yes she is an Ann Arbor elitist.

That's okay. It's his future, not hers. I have a BSME, and there's no way I'd go down the same path today. My first full year out (98) I made 49k and my education cost around 85k. Today the same degree costs over 200k and we hire those grads for around 60k. Today I would have either stayed in the construction trade or become an electrician.

 

[wcd]

1. Learn the difference between investing, spending, and wasting because you're on your own now and you're about to waste more time and money than your likely to see or have for another 15 to 20 years.

2. Jobs
A. They suck.
B. They suck less than being broke.
C. They suck a LOT less than watching your family do without because you haven't learned the difference between investing, spending, and wasting.
D. It's not the job, it's the attitude you approach it with.

3. Before you spend a lot of time and money trying g to learn something, find a few people who've been successful in that area and buy them lunch a few times. Ask them what they did to achieve that success. Consider whether or not their path to success is still viable or not. If it is, decide if you are willing and able to do more work than they did to achieve their results. Then you will know whether you are investing in your future, spending your time and money hoping it will pay off, or wasting your resources you will never be able to recover.

Hmm wonder how many Liberal elites have taken your advice? I would wager to say not to many as their intellect is far superior to ours. And we are just not smart enough to understand their greatness.

MIL case in point.

 

[thelefthand]

Hmm wonder how many Liberal elites have taken your advice? I would wager to say not to many as their intellect is far superior to ours. And we are just not smart enough to understand their greatness.

MIL case in point.

Liberal elites? How about how many middle class conservatives???

 

[thelefthand]

Nothing is ever "safe", but I'm calling BS on the engineering.

Wages are rapidly increasing and inverting - new grads being paid more than 5 year employees. I simply can't find enough engineers for what I need to do.

There's some engineering jobs that will never go oversees, e.g. defense contractors.

How many engineers are you finding that are actually worth paying? Most of the ones we find only know how to use power point, and are looking for a path to management. We're lucky if 1 in 10 turns out to be any good, and of course those are the ones who are the most marketable and hardest to keep while the others couldn't find their way out the door if you lead them by the hand. There's only so many "supply chain" positions we can stick them in...

 

[JettaKnight]

How many engineers are you finding that are actually worth paying? Most of the ones we find only know how to use power point, and are looking for a path to management. We're lucky if 1 in 10 turns out to be any good, and of course those are the ones who are the most marketable and hardest to keep while the others couldn't find their way out the door if you lead them by the hand. There's only so many "supply chain" positions we can stick them in...

You guys must suck at recruiting.

I only see the ones we hire, so I don't know how many don't get a job.

The problem we have is that most of our engineers don't want to move into any managerial roles.