U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

[BugI02]

Privacy is dead. It died the death of a thousand cuts. Nothing you do outside the privacy of your own home nor any communication by ANY electronic means should ever be considered to be private. I believe in being so uninteresting that I get lost in the torrent of data that they have to develop algorithms to sift. To seem boring is to be anonymous.

 

[in625shooter]

Privacy is dead. It died the death of a thousand cuts. Nothing you do outside the privacy of your own home nor any communication by ANY electronic means should ever be considered to be private. I believe in being so uninteresting that I get lost in the torrent of data that they have to develop algorithms to sift. To seem boring is to be anonymous.

Like they say at work. The E in E mail means Evidence! And that's just for minor misconduct issues etc let alone anyone that does some kind of criminal thing (allegedly). Sign of the times I guess

 

[IndyDave1776]

Privacy is dead. It died the death of a thousand cuts. Nothing you do outside the privacy of your own home nor any communication by ANY electronic means should ever be considered to be private. I believe in being so uninteresting that I get lost in the torrent of data that they have to develop algorithms to sift. To seem boring is to be anonymous.

In practice you are correct. The problem is that the commonplace existence of egregious violations of our privacy do not make them acceptable, just commonplace.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Sure, this is why the Postal Inspectors have such an incredibly high conviction rate.

I thought people knew not to use return addresses?

I always use return addresses...
1600 1/2 Pennsylvania Ave.!

 

[Denny347]

 

[AtTheMurph]

I doubt that the courts would find the photographing of the outside of a letter or parcel to be a search or a seizure. Is there a reasonable expectation of privacy for the outside of an envelope going through the hands of dozens of strangers in the postal system? I'm speaking only of the outside of the envelope, not the contents.

Our courts are a joke. The simple truth is that our government was never given the power to collect information about our mail. Show me an enumerated power to collect this information. The 10th Amendment states that unless the government was specifically granted a power by the people it does not rightfully have that power.

Really is simple as that, no matter what the courts may say.

 

[jmiller676]

Our courts are a joke. The simple truth is that our government was never given the power to collect information about our mail. Show me an enumerated power to collect this information. The 10th Amendment states that unless the government was specifically granted a power by the people it does not rightfully have that power.

Really is simple as that, no matter what the courts may say.

It's sad but, that ship sailed a long, long time ago.

 

[in625shooter]

What the masses do not realize is although as a whole the Government seems to screw a lot up they are very smart "legally" whet they have to be. Tim McVeigh was convicted of only 8 counts of Murder. The Government only charged him with the 8 federal officers killed. Not because they were worth more but the Gov was concerned with the pro militia atmosphere of the early-mid 90's an acquittal was a possibility. in that case the Gov could turn around and charge McVeigh and his co conspirators with 160 other cases of murder and it would not be a Double Jeopardy issue so they didn't put all their eggs in one basket. Perfectly legal to do that. many many state prosecutors do it every year.

Not that I am for it just saying if they (whoever they are) have a system to track the mail by the address on the outside of an envelop it is in the public domain and the way technology has expanded what can you say to argue that point?? It's not technically a search or seizure as much as any of us do not like it.

 

[ghuns]

Right? I mean, if you're not up to no good, what have you got to worry about?

Now shut up and go back to being nice little sheeps.

 

[Trigger Time]

I hope your kidding. I care.

I care about an overreaching and corrupt govt spying on me with no court warrant. Even though we have seen time and time again examples of law enforcement acting first and worrying about legality after they did what they wanted. (Car GPS trackers). (Sobriety checkpoints)

Us good citizens just want to be left alone and have the FREEDOM and privacy to wipe our asses without having a peeping eagle.

Sure for this to happen I'm sure they would need some other reason to already be investigating that person ....... Until they invent a machine that scans and photos ALL mail and stores it I a database for future examination. But wait our govt would never do that right?! Just like those license plate scanners and cameras!!

 

[ghuns]

I hope your kidding. I care.

I was kidding. My purple is just broke.

 

[Scorpio]

Our courts are a joke. The simple truth is that our government was never given the power to collect information about our mail. Show me an enumerated power to collect this information. The 10th Amendment states that unless the government was specifically granted a power by the people it does not rightfully have that power.

Really is simple as that, no matter what the courts may say.

It's really the other way around. What the courts decide is law, no matter what you think. Their analysis of the constitutionality of government actions trumps internet forum opinions.

 

[Scorpio]

I hope your kidding. I care.

I care about an overreaching and corrupt govt spying on me with no court warrant. Even though we have seen time and time again examples of law enforcement acting first and worrying about legality after they did what they wanted. (Car GPS trackers). (Sobriety checkpoints)

Us good citizens just want to be left alone and have the FREEDOM and privacy to wipe our asses without having a peeping eagle.

Sure for this to happen I'm sure they would need some other reason to already be investigating that person ....... Until they invent a machine that scans and photos ALL mail and stores it I a database for future examination. But wait our govt would never do that right?! Just like those license plate scanners and cameras!!

What's wrong with license plate scanners and cameras? License plate scanners read information on a government issued registration plate and by camera, I'm guessing you mean cameras in public places. Nothing wrong with either of these things.

 

[in625shooter]

I hope your kidding. I care.

I care about an overreaching and corrupt govt spying on me with no court warrant. Even though we have seen time and time again examples of law enforcement acting first and worrying about legality after they did what they wanted. (Car GPS trackers). (Sobriety checkpoints)

Us good citizens just want to be left alone and have the FREEDOM and privacy to wipe our asses without having a peeping eagle.

Sure for this to happen I'm sure they would need some other reason to already be investigating that person ....... Until they invent a machine that scans and photos ALL mail and stores it I a database for future examination. But wait our govt would never do that right?! Just like those license plate scanners and cameras!!

What's wrong with license plate scanners and cameras? License plate scanners read information on a government issued registration plate and by camera, I'm guessing you mean cameras in public places. Nothing wrong with either of these things.

Sobriety checkpoints have been proven to not be a violation. That whole "implied consent" thing!

 

[ghuns]

What's wrong with license plate scanners and cameras? License plate scanners read information on a government issued registration plate and by camera, I'm guessing you mean cameras in public places. Nothing wrong with either of these things.

Wow, you are new here aren't you.

There's nothing wrong with any of it, until YOU become a target of it. But that can never happen, right? I mean, you're an upstanding law abiding citizen, you'll never participate in anything that will cause Big Brother to look your way.

A good read...

They Thought They Were Free

To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it... Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning... one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

Sound familiar to anybody else?

A pdf download of the entire book is available here

 

[Scorpio]

Wow, you are new here aren't you.

There's nothing wrong with any of it, until YOU become a target of it. But that can never happen, right? I mean, you're an upstanding law abiding citizen, you'll never participate in anything that will cause Big Brother to look your way.

A good read...

They Thought They Were Free

Sound familiar to anybody else?

A pdf download of the entire book is available here

It is a well known phenomena on internet forums....Godwin's law, I think. Inevitably, whatever matter is being discussed will be equated with the Nazis. This is a sure sign that the poster is given to hyperbole. A pin prick equals an amputation. We are not comparable to Nazi Germany in the 30's and 40's, nor is taking pictures of mail or employing devices to read government issued license plates in public anything near the atrocities committed by the Nazis.

The Nazis blamed a particular subset of their population for their problems, and proceeded to exterminate them to return Germany to its former greatness. Hardly comparable to what's happening in our country right now. Slippery slope arguments are logical fallacies, and anyone who is not simple minded in their thinking realizes this. There are a millions shades of gray between black and white.

The fact that we can argue about such things on an open forum stands in defiance of the howling claims of so-called "tyranny." I understand the need to call things like this to light, and this is certainly a good thing. But contrary to the forecasts of doomsayers, I do not think the sky is falling.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It's really the other way around. What the courts decide is law, no matter what you think. Their analysis of the constitutionality of government actions trumps internet forum opinions.

It is a well known phenomena on internet forums....Godwin's law, I think. Inevitably, whatever matter is being discussed will be equated with the Nazis. This is a sure sign that the poster is given to hyperbole. A pin prick equals an amputation. We are not comparable to Nazi Germany in the 30's and 40's, nor is taking pictures of mail or employing devices to read government issued license plates in public anything near the atrocities committed by the Nazis.

The Nazis blamed a particular subset of their population for their problems, and proceeded to exterminate them to return Germany to its former greatness. Hardly comparable to what's happening in our country right now. Slippery slope arguments are logical fallacies, and anyone who is not simple minded in their thinking realizes this. There are a millions shades of gray between black and white.

The fact that we can argue about such things on an open forum stands in defiance of the howling claims of so-called "tyranny." I understand the need to call things like this to light, and this is certainly a good thing. But contrary to the forecasts of doomsayers, I do not think the sky is falling.

OK, I see how it is. As I previously addressed, there is a difference between what is right and what happens in practice. It seems that you are willing to accept as right and proper that the law is whatever it is determined to be by a group of corrupt judges deliberately misinterpreting perfectly clear law.

As for 'Godwin's law', you are buying into the traditional leftist tactic of ridiculing anything you cannot counter with reason. Similarities with Nazism are as they are. If the shoe fits, wear it. I, for one, will not ignore them just because someone has arbitrarily deemed such comparison not politically correct/unrefined/uncultured. If the similarity exists, it exists. Simple as that.

Since you apparently don't get it, surveillance is the first step toward controlling a population. Since you find no problem with any of this, please offer a sane explanation of why the government would need to invest the effort of spying on most everyone, the overwhelming majority of which have no criminal inclination whatsoever. It has been my observation, both directly and in the context of history that people don't invest effort without a reason for doing so.

 

[Denny347]

I hope your kidding. I care.

I care about an overreaching and corrupt govt spying on me with no court warrant. Even though we have seen time and time again examples of law enforcement acting first and worrying about legality after they did what they wanted. (Car GPS trackers). (Sobriety checkpoints)

Us good citizens just want to be left alone and have the FREEDOM and privacy to wipe our asses without having a peeping eagle.

Sure for this to happen I'm sure they would need some other reason to already be investigating that person ....... Until they invent a machine that scans and photos ALL mail and stores it I a database for future examination. But wait our govt would never do that right?! Just like those license plate scanners and cameras!!

I GIVE my mail/package over to a government agency then become shocked when I discover they photographed the OUTSIDE of my letter/package. The same OUTSIDE that anyone can see if in proximity of the letter/package. Did they open my package? No? Then again, I CHOOSE not to use the USPS in all but a very few transactions.

 

[ghuns]

It is a well known phenomena on internet forums....Godwin's law, I think. Inevitably, whatever matter is being discussed will be equated with the Nazis. This is a sure sign that the poster is given to hyperbole. A pin prick equals an amputation. We are not comparable to Nazi Germany in the 30's and 40's, nor is taking pictures of mail or employing devices to read government issued license plates in public anything near the atrocities committed by the Nazis.

The Nazis blamed a particular subset of their population for their problems, and proceeded to exterminate them to return Germany to its former greatness. Hardly comparable to what's happening in our country right now. Slippery slope arguments are logical fallacies, and anyone who is not simple minded in their thinking realizes this. There are a millions shades of gray between black and white.

The fact that we can argue about such things on an open forum stands in defiance of the howling claims of so-called "tyranny." I understand the need to call things like this to light, and this is certainly a good thing. But contrary to the forecasts of doomsayers, I do not think the sky is falling.

I am in no way comparing our current .gov to that of Nazi Germany. But it is fair to compare our current situation to the bold part of the quote in my previous post. There will be no "sky falling" moment. It will happen in incremental steps that most people will blindly go along with. Most of the steps are not even taken for nefarious reasons, they are reasonable ideas at the time. It is human nature to want to feel safe and protected, it is the nature of a large central government to grow larger at the expense of the populations freedoms and money.

Our .gov has not yet reached a level where I would call it tyrannical. But an infrastructure is being put in place where it could make the jump very easily under the right leadership.

To bury your head in the sand and say it can't happen here, that is truly simple minded.

 

[Destro]

the only solution it to brick up your mail box...