Trump 2024 ???

[KG1]

It would have been world changing if all republicans had worked as a team to take on the democrats that executed solid teamwork in 2017/2018. They might have been thrown out on their head for it but they could have left a massive change for the good that dems would have had to work hard to overturn.

A President alone does not have the power to turn back congress, he must have help…

Well, I think the main point GFGT is making is how can Trump even promise that he will drain the swamp without that Republican backing?

You're right he can't do it alone so how can he make that promise knowing that? Maybe he should have said I will pledge to drain the swamp if my fellow Republicans will do the same with me.

 

[BugI02]

You're right he can't do it alone so how can he make that promise knowing that? Maybe he should have said I will pledge to drain the swamp if my fellow Republicans will do the same with me.

Doesn't any other candidate have the same problem? The only answer I can see is the Reagan one - be so popular with the people that even the country-club Republicans who hate you will not dare defy you

As Machiavelli said, if you cannot be both feared AND loved, it is better to be feared

 

[Ingomike]

Well, I think the main point GFGT is making is how can Trump even promise that he will drain the swamp without that Republican backing?

You're right he can't do it alone so how can he make that promise knowing that? Maybe he should have said I will pledge to drain the swamp if my fellow Republicans will do the same with me.

This is where the posts the discussing the various definitions of drain the swamp come up and likely what we want to hear and generic campaign rhetoric comes into play.

Anyone who believes any candidates campaign speeches are something they alone can do needs to study the constitution…

 

[KG1]

Doesn't any other candidate have the same problem? The only answer I can see is the Reagan one - be so popular with the people that even the country-club Republicans who hate you will not dare defy you

As Machiavelli said, if you cannot be both feared AND loved, it is better to be feared

Indeed, they do, and I would say the same thing if they pledged to drain the swamp without having party backing.

They can't do it which is why I suggested the way that he should have maybe made the pledge and challenged fellow Republicans to join him. Which we all know would never happen because there are also swamp creatures in the GOP.

 

[KG1]

This is where the posts the discussing the various definitions of drain the swamp come up and likely what we want to hear and generic campaign rhetoric comes into play.

Anyone who believes any candidates campaign speeches are something they alone can do needs to study the constitution…

I'll give Trump credit for trying to pull the swamp plug. The bottom line is there needs to be some unified party backing for any real effective change. You've said it yourself.

Didn't you say this?

A President alone does not have the power to turn back congress, he must have help…

 

[Ingomike]

I'll give Trump credit for trying to pull the swamp plug. The bottom line is there needs to be some unified party backing for any real effective change. You've said it yourself.

Didn't you say this?

And said it again here…

This is where the posts the discussing the various definitions of drain the swamp come up and likely what we want to hear and generic campaign rhetoric comes into play.

Anyone who believes any candidates campaign speeches are something they alone can do needs to study the constitution…

 

[KG1]

And said it again here…

I'm giving Trump credit for trying to pull the swamp plug and that any real effective change cannot happen without a unified party backing. Seems like we agree on that.

 

[manifest destiny]

I think it'll take more than elected officials to right the ship. It's time for States to flex. A few regional States tell the federal beast No! and maybe we can at least set a corrected course. But just a few elected peeps working in one government branch will not be enough.

 

[jamil]

This is where the posts the discussing the various definitions of drain the swamp come up and likely what we want to hear and generic campaign rhetoric comes into play.

Anyone who believes any candidates campaign speeches are something they alone can do needs to study the constitution…

Absolutely. But when Trumpers insist Trump has a track record of accomplishments in areas where he really needed congress to make it stick, isn’t that an empty track record? It shows only that he can use a pen and phone. Hell even Biden can do that.

Can he work with congress to get this done? He’s got no track record of that. He had both houses of Congress when he entered office. All he could get done was what CoC Republicans wanted. Tax cuts and judges that would overturn RvW. Not a whole lot more.

And no, DeSantis doesn’t have that kind of track record on the national stage either, as an administration head. Reagan was mentioned. But the Reagan doctrine had more to it than being popular. He could articulate a message that resonated with a wide variety of people. And do it in a way that didn’t **** off half the people who heard it. We don’t have a “Reagan” kind of candidate. We have Trump and DeSantis. And a bunch of non-starters. So that’s where we are.

 

[KG1]

And no, DeSantis doesn’t have that kind of track record on the national stage either, as an administration head. Reagan was mentioned. But the Reagan doctrine had more to it than being popular. He could articulate a message that resonated with a wide variety of people. And do it in a way that didn’t **** off half the people who heard it. We don’t have a “Reagan” kind of candidate. We have Trump and DeSantis. And a bunch of non-starters. So that’s where we are.

Reagan was able to attract "Reagan Democrats" who voted for him back then. I don't think Trump has that same kind of push going for him.

 

[Ingomike]

Absolutely. But when Trumpers insist Trump has a track record of accomplishments in areas where he really needed congress to make it stick, isn’t that an empty track record? It shows only that he can use a pen and phone. Hell even Biden can do that.

Trump has a track record of doing what he said he would do. You are the one assigning definitions that do not exist except in your mind..

 

[Ingomike]

He had both houses of Congress when he entered office.

No he did not. An openly hostile speaker and Majority leader is in no way defined as “had both houses”. They definitely were not the same party, and to not acknowledge that fact makes your points worthless…

 

[foszoe]

Trump wins HuffPost endorsement

HuffPost published an opinion piece bluntly headlined, "No one is more dangerous for the White House than Ron DeSantis — including Donald Trump," which said the Florida governor is "more informed, tactical and calculated, which makes him way more dangerous."

 

[BugI02]

Absolutely. But when Trumpers [DeSandanistas] insist Trump [DeSantis] has a track record of accomplishments in areas where he really needed congress [his party controlling both chambers of the state legislature] to make it stick, isn’t that an empty track record?

Both pictures are the same

 

[KLB]

Both pictures are the same

Not really. They are actually polar opposites. One worked with the legislature to get stuff done. One fought with them and didn't.

 

[manifest destiny]

Not really. They are actually polar opposites. One worked with the legislature to get stuff done. One fought with them and didn't.

Lame.
ETA: nothing personal, I just view it as a bad take.

 

[KLB]

Lame.
ETA: nothing personal, I just view it as a bad take.

Bad how though?

 

[BugI02]

Not really. They are actually polar opposites. One worked with the legislature to get stuff done. One fought with them and didn't.

The similarity is the acknowledgement that an executive needs the legislature's help to get much done, whether that executive is Governor or POTUS

I speak to the fiction that somehow DeSantis will just roll to DC and the heavens will open. If he doesn't have long coattails, and he won't in the current environment, then he'll have all the same problems Trump did and his cult will be the ones making excuses (it's already happening)

 

[jamil]

Reagan was able to attract "Reagan Democrats" who voted for him back then. I don't think Trump has that same kind of push going for him.

Kinda he does. Like the Jimmy Dore types, or Joe Rogan, union ho’s, etcetera. I think they’d vote for Trump before voting for the bat **** crazy democrats.

But, I don’t think they’re near the number of Reagan Democratic.

 

[jamil]

Trump has a track record of doing what he said he would do. You are the one assigning definitions that do not exist except in your mind..

He said he’d drain the swamp and he didn’t do it. All the other accomplishments were wiped out. So yeah. The point was his track record is using his EO powers. He doesn’t have a track record of working with congress. Everything he signed into law were things establishment R’s wanted too.