Trump 2024 — The second term

[BugI02]

forced to pick, I view Trump as the greater of the two evils.

Because, according to you, a booming stock market, bringing jobs back to America, rising wages at the lower end of the scale, historically low unemployment (especially minority unemployment), a secure border, energy independence and attacks on the administrative state, over-regulation, climate-change fanaticism, political correctness (ESG, DEI, CRT), globalist imperatives, and foreign adventurism are all 'evils' that needed to be stopped

en·e·my
noun
1 a person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.
2 a thing that harms or weakens something else.

I'm not so sure your ideological brethren don't fit the definition

 

[LeftyGunner]

Because, according to you, a booming stock market,

(less booming than current levels)

bringing jobs back to America,

(@ a slower rate than the current administration)

rising wages at the lower end of the scale,

(Again. @ a slower rate than the current admin)

historically low unemployment (especially minority unemployment),

Lower still now.

a secure border,

Horse ****. Border apprehensions increased dramatically under Biden.

energy independence

We are a net exporter.

and attacks on the administrative state, over-regulation, climate-change fanaticism, political correctness (ESG, DEI, CRT), globalist imperatives, and foreign adventurism are all 'evils' that needed to be stopped

Culture war Pearl-clutching. Nothing more.

en·e·my
noun
1 a person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.
2 a thing that harms or weakens something else.

I'm not so sure your ideological brethren don't fit the definition

Is misrepresentation the only tool in your toolbox? FFS.

 

[red_zr24x4]

^ That's some funny **** right there

 

[DadSmith]

Trump’s next fundraiser to be biggest yet with anticipated $43 million in donations - Washington Examiner

Former President Donald Trump will be in Palm Beach, Florida Saturday in hopes of fundraising more money than he has so far in this election cycle.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[d.kaufman]

^ That's some funny **** right there

Funny but yet I feel dumber for reading it

 

[jamil]

Hint: it isn’t political punditry.



There it is.

Mike, I’m not your enemy…I disagree with you about how the government should be run.

Destroying the country and constitution? You support the only guy In history to actually attempt to stay in office after losing a presidential election…pot, meet kettle.

The country doesn’t belong to you or MAGA, and your view of “Constitutionality” is entirely a product of your own imagination.

America is aggregate, it is a product of all of our views and efforts.



Because that’s all it is.




Literally every progressive talking head and politician in the country talks about upholding the constitution and the rule of law, and the biggest disagreement regarding private property revolves around corporate personhood…a Republican sacred cow.

I think progressives have a very different idea of what upholding the constitution means. Or even what the constitution says. Both sides can say that they uphold the constitution. The Left thinks that the constitution is a living document, which they can reinterpret as words change.

Also, if you're referring to citizens united decision, I think if you listen to the America-first Republicans, they'll agree with you that corporations don't have a "personhood". It was a horrible decision.

I believe in the free movement of people, capital, and ideas…I come from a family of immigrants and benefitted directly from America’s historically permissive immigration policy.

I have no problem at all with immigration. But if by "free movement of people" you mean without borders or societal restrictions, I think you don't understand human nature very well. That society isn't going to last.

I think the country is changing. I think more people are choosing to live their own lives differently from the way MAGA wants to live theirs, and I think those changes scare people (primarily conservative-minded people)

”Woke” is a dog whistle.

That's one of the most retarded statements I've ever heard. You hear that on The Daily Show? That where you get your news?

Societies evolve, so naturally they change with each new generation. That's expected. The changes that we're going through now are leaps beyond normal generational changes. And you know it. And if you don't know it, your head is in the sand.

I think it has a lot to do with social media. And colleges and universities. Public and private schools. If you've read any of the woke academic literature--I'm not talking about right wing talking points, I'm talking about what woke authors actually say--you'll notice it's exactly what's happening.

What? Now you lose me. Mao…really?

Yes. Mao used cultural revolution to condition people to help bring about the physical revolution. This is a cultural revolution, not simply normal generational social evolution.

if you are going to speak for me, at least try to get my perspective correct: I value the right of people to choose to live the way they themselves want to…not for government to impose an ideology onto its populace.

I don't care how people choose to live as long as they don't force their way of life on me. I don't care who people choose to **** as it's consenting adults. But. I don't have to condone how people live and I don't have to support it. And I damn sure don't want government to shove ClownWorld™ down people's throats.

This is so far off the mark I don’t even know how to respond.

Well this needs the original context:

---

It's a culture war. The thing is, in previous conversations, LG has admitted that a lot of the stuff we call woke is bad. It IS cultural. It's a cultural revolution in the same way it was when Mao did it. Take over and destroy the social and cultural institutions that bind people together, and they won't defend their previous way of life. Not all of them.

---

When asked about specific instances of clown behavior, I don't really recall which, you've said that you're against it. Well, not really.

I am starting to think you smoked your breakfast.

Over an open fire,

Nowhere in any of my posts have I endorsed a leftist cultural revolution…if you actually read what what I write you‘ll see me argue for individual liberty and personal responsibility over and over again.

It's happening. You're voting for it.

MAGA does not have a monopoly on “American Values”…that is a ideolocical aggregate, which means the median is always moving. It’s not an attack on anything, its normal progression of human culture.

Okay, if by "MAGA" you mean Trump supporters, I'd have to agree. But if MAGA means making policies that put America first, actually yeah, they kinda have a monopoly on those values I mentioned. Because progressives sure don't uphold them. If they did, they'd they'd stop pushing porn in schools. Progressive DA's would prosecute crime again.

I know you're trying to make the point about diverse ideological values. But that's actually part of what ****s up societies. It's why the Founders made a system of federalism. The idea was to put the policy making the closest to the people. But that's pretty much gone in the US. Everyone wants to make policies that suit them, and it's a problem people with diverse ideologies all fight for the stick to use on the people who don't agree with them. Right now the Left has the stick. They ain't gonna like it when the stick gets taken away from them.

Agreed.



Not quite…The Left (Big L) thinks fascists and racists have taken these concepts hostage, and not entirely without reason.

Well, yes, quite. The left thinks those things are racist and fascist. Bloody hell. Don't you even read progressive authors?

They might, but I don‘t. Read my posts...I don‘t think Trump or Biden should hold the office, but…forced to pick, I view Trump as the greater of the two evils.

I'm not a Trump fan. There won't be much of a middle class left if Democrats hold the WH for another term. I don't understand why anyone looks at the open borders, with millions of people coming here unvetted, and thinks that's not intentional. You've been asked about the border. You just blow it off.

 

[jamil]

Horse ****. Border apprehensions increased dramatically under Biden.

Apparently you don't watch CSPAN when Biden officials testify before congress. That's horse ****.

But. This explains why you don't think the border situation is a problem. You get your news from the Dailly Show? Hell. Even Bill Maher understands the problem there.

 

[jamil]

I think the worst statement in this thread is that "woke is a dog whistle". It demonstrates how far out of touch LG is with the people he disagrees with. Woke is just the word we use for clowny beliefs and actions. Like diversity worship. We shouldn't care about race. Not that we can't see race. It's what we do after we see it that matters. Care more about judging individuals on how they act, how they treat others; their merit. In other words, judge individuals on the content of their character. Not by group characteristics.

We should try to see the world as clearly as possible. Objectively. ClownWorld is incapable of doing that. Can men get pregnant? Of course not. They don't have the plumbing for it. But LG thinks that recent phenomenon is just normal societal change.

It's not like I care that people believe clowny things. If they just kept their ClownWorld™ to themselves, I'd just laugh it off. But they force others to go along with clowny behavior through social pressure, "canceling", and also by using corporations to enforce these new norms through DEI. “Oh, we’re just trying to be inclusive.” Nah. That’s just how you sell it. The constitution won't let them do what they're able to do in other Western countries, because our constitution doesn't allow the government to do it. You misgender someone in GB, for example, it could be a fine or jail.

Point is, "Woke" isn't a dog whistle for some kind of bigotry. That's only the kind of language you hear from Steven Colbert and other left wing talking heads spewing snot as if it were comedy.

Woke is a term we borrowed from the clowns to represent the set of clowny behaviors the Left is trying to enforce and normalize. Worst of which is the acceptance of pedophilia. They can't even bring themselves to call it that, because they don't want to offend the pedofiles. So they call them minor-attracted persons. For **** sake!

 

[HKFaninCarmel]

Bug's talking points to sell Trump wouldn't be mine and sort of reflect the right-wing bubble, IMO. Banging the drum on Trump's old talking points won't pass muster and isn't why Biden's ratings are in the tank.

I believe that LG's response (this one specifically) is wildly flawed. While it is true that border apprehensions have increased, the real issue is what happens after these individuals are apprehended. With millions of people crossing the border from hostile nations and unknown locations, we have a legitimate security crisis and an out-of-control border. Nowadays, people can simply approach DHS, get a piece of paper, and continue on their way to a city with a defiant prosecutor and underfunded police department. Claiming that apprehensions are up and that Biden is doing a good job is a wild statement that doesn't reflect the severity of the situation.

Horse ****. Border apprehensions increased dramatically under Biden.

 

[jamil]

With millions of people crossing the border from hostile nations and unknown locations, we have a legitimate security crisis and an out-of-control border.

10 years ago this would not be controversial. Of course a nation needs its borders secured. Not everyone who can freely move here means us harm. But some do. That’s why we have a system for *legal* immigration.

It’s part of what I was talking about with how people like LG can say words to casually dismiss the concern without actually addressing the concern. “I believe in free movement” doesn’t address the problem, it’s a cop out to avoid acknowledging there’s a serious problem which Democrats and chamber-o-commerce caused.

Republicans like to fundraise off it but never do anything to solve it. And they like their pools to be cleaned, their children nannied, and their gardens weed free. Democrats fancy a new voting bloc which will put them perpetually in charge of policy.

This is why Trump is so popular. He at least gave people the idea that it’s okay to say. We need to stop illegal immigration. But then the people LG supports claim that’s racist. And so he believes it without skepticism.

It’s not about keeping the “Messicans” out as Kut wanted to believe. It is simply securing the border, which every nation has a right, and a responsibility to their citizens, to do.

I don’t want to keep people out by race. I’ve nothing against Hispanic people. I want sane immigration laws and I want those laws enforced. If they come here and live here legally, but with a sane immigration policy—if Democrats had their way they’d eliminate any restrictions for immigration—I have nothing but welcome, but please try to assimilate to the American way of life. Muslims trying to enforce their own Sharia in Dearborn MI is not compatible with America. But if you like to paint your car bright green and outfit your suspension with hydraulics, and put fuzzy dice in the mirror, hey. It’s a free country. Just come here legally and become American, and contribute by not becoming a burden on society.

 

[Ingomike]

10 years ago this would not be controversial. Of course a nation needs its borders secured. Not everyone who can freely move here means us harm. But some do. That’s why we have a system for *legal* immigration.

It’s part of what I was talking about with how people like LG can say words to casually dismiss the concern without actually addressing the concern. “I believe in free movement” doesn’t address the problem, it’s a cop out to avoid acknowledging there’s a serious problem which Democrats and chamber-o-commerce caused.

Republicans like to fundraise off it but never do anything to solve it. And they like their pools to be cleaned, their children nannied, and their gardens weed free. Democrats fancy a new voting bloc which will put them perpetually in charge of policy.

This is why Trump is so popular. He at least gave people the idea that it’s okay to say. We need to stop illegal immigration. But then the people LG supports claim that’s racist. And so he believes it without skepticism.

It’s not about keeping the “Messicans” out as Kut wanted to believe. It is simply securing the border, which every nation has a right, and a responsibility to their citizens, to do.

I don’t want to keep people out by race. I’ve nothing against Hispanic people. I want sane immigration laws and I want those laws enforced. If they come here and live here legally, but with a sane immigration policy—if Democrats had their way they’d eliminate any restrictions for immigration—I have nothing but welcome, but please try to assimilate to the American way of life. Muslims trying to enforce their own Sharia in Dearborn MI is not compatible with America. But if you like to paint your car bright green and outfit your suspension with hydraulics, and put fuzzy dice in the mirror, hey. It’s a free country. Just come here legally and become American, and contribute by not becoming a burden on society.

If what I have read is true, I just want the same laws as Mexico enforces on its southern border enforced on our borders…

 

[Ingomike]

Illegal Aliens Rush to Cross the Border Before Election Day: 'Trump Won't Let Us In'

townhall.com

 

[Ingomike]

If Donald Trump Is So Bad, Why Do Democrats Have To Lie About Him?

townhall.com

 

[KLB]

If what I have read is true, I just want the same laws as Mexico enforces on its southern border enforced on our borders…

What is that? You can't come in unless you plan to keep on going North?

 

[Ingomike]

What is that? You can't come in unless you plan to keep on going North?

I believe so. I couldn’t find a simplified list of the laws of Mexico but they are stiff…

 

[jamil]

What is that? You can't come in unless you plan to keep on going North?

Okay so for the US, it would be okay to pass through the US on the way to Canuckistan. But you have to double pinkie swear that you won't stay in the US. Maybe create a "passing-thru" visa.

 

[KLB]

They wouldn't be coming here if we stopped giving them handouts when they got here.

 

[KG1]

Simply put. Ask the progressive Democrat bastions of sanctuary how they feel about wide-open illegal immigrant freedom of movement now that their sanctuaries are being overwhelmingly inundated to the point of them saying don't come here. They are perfectly fine with open borders as long as it doesn't directly affect them. Now it has and they don't like it.

 

[KG1]

They didn't have this problem when Trump was POTUS and they could chirp while perched upon their virtuous high branches.

 

[jamil]

@LeftyGunner, I think I want to address "MAGA" more. I mean, it was a campaign slogan that became an identity. As an individualist, I'm disinterested in group identity. But Just throwing MAGA at people as if that's a valid argument against what they believe is lazy. Putting Trump aside, which we can do, because I think the ideas are bigger than him, I think what it means is two things: A movement that is both populist and America-first. Both ideas are intertwined. America-first is nationalist, in that our politicians should put American citizens first. It's what we elect them to do. I don't vote for people who want to make Israeli lives better, for example.

Populism and nationalism have been villainized as Nazism, but primarily by elitists who think they should run the show, because they're elite. Populism is simply the idea that ordinary people should have no less say about polices that affect them, than elites. It is rather the establishment of democricy, not the distruction of it.

Nationalism is the idea that people, espeically elected leaders, should put their nation first. Americans should put America first before other nations. Brits should put GB ahead of other nations. French should put--wait, not sure we can go that far. Sacre bleu, after all. Anyway, you get the idea.

There is a part of MAGA that's inextricable from Trump. That's the identity part that I mentioned. The part that will last, at least I hope will last is the idea that nations exist for a reason, and will continue to exist as long as human nature is what it is. And nations should serve it's own citizens interests rather than other nations. The idea of globalism is a falure that will result in tyranny. And in serving a nation's best interest, every citizen should have an equal say in the policies that affect them. So yes, that means the Citizens United ruling is retarded.

So the parts of MAGA that I'm saying are legit, are concepts we're not going to find in the Left wing establishment. You'll only find it in the populist Left movement (people like Jimmy Dore, Russel Brand, etcetera. But the Left wing media is so stupid, they think those guys are right wing. MAGA isn't really right wing. It's just that the left is incapable of the intellectual honesty to say what it really is.