Trooper in deadly Montgomery County shooting identified, but questions remain

[Whosyer]

No disrespect to you sir, but I take that report with a big bag of rock salt. I quit watching WTHR for making their own news with their "stories" a long time ago.

Five people disgruntled in an area regularly patrolled is by no means "several." WTHR was looking to sensationalize, like they always do.

I'm glad people are following up on this, but we need to be cautious on who we are quick to believe. I wouldn't readily believe at lot of other WTHR reporting and I'm sure not going to readily fall for this headline.

Isn't anything between 2 ( a couple) and 12 ( a dozen) actually " several" ?

 

[Lelliott8]

No disrespect to you sir, but I take that report with a big bag of rock salt. I quit watching WTHR for making their own news with their "stories" a long time ago.

Five people disgruntled in an area regularly patrolled is by no means "several." WTHR was looking to sensationalize, like they always do.

I'm glad people are following up on this, but we need to be cautious on who we are quick to believe. I wouldn't readily believe at lot of other WTHR reporting and I'm sure not going to readily fall for this headline.

Never said I believe any of the stories people told or that I find WTHR to be a good source of news. Five people was all the reporter decided to pick among the many I’ve seen all over social media talking about this cop. All this article did was relay some anecdotes that are publicly available and their author’s commented about their experience. I relayed it here.

Just thought it was relevant to the conversation we’re having because it seemed like some people here were willing to bring things up about Rightsell’s past that indicate that he may have been aggressive and warranted getting shot, somehow. So I’m bringing things up about the cop that indicate that he may have been a powermad little freak that liked pointing his gun at people and eventually murdered a guy.

Take away from the link what you want, but the point I was trying to make is that a lot of people are talking about this and much of what is being said is bad.

Yes, I understand it’s word-of-mouth and not totally trustworthy or court-admissable.

Yes, I understand all the facts of the incident may not be out yet.

 

[Coach]

Police work is not about shooting guns.

Until it is.

 

[cordex]

I am betting that those who are so proud of how good they are at punching close holes and ringing steel would see their scores go down on a two-way range. Training helps, but not even good force-on-force training can mimic the stress of someone who is refusing to stand still for your "center mass" shot and is also trying his best to kill you.

Totally agree, although I'd say that well done force-on-force gives a good taste. Certainly opened my eyes. If someone on a forum had sarcastically asked me before trying it about whether or not I could hit what I was aiming at I'd have confidently replied that of course I could, but when the stress is turned up everything changes. Sights disappear, tunnel vision sets in, all your plans about movement and stance and tactics drip from your ears. Whether any of that applied here I have no idea, but it's real.

 

[bwframe]

There are ways to address improving officer's proficiency with firearms, if we choose to address it. IMHO, that is an argument for another time.

The most important issues with this shooting is whether the officer was of a proper mindset to do his job and whether enough was done to save the life of of the man who was shot.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

In the other thread there was a lot of concern for the amount of time it took to get the injured man to get medical attention. Denny did a great job of giving some inside baseball points on the scene of a police action shooting.

Something else to consider with injury, violence and crime.
Say you come home to a home invasion and your family member is being stabbed. You shoot the bad guy, get good hits and down goes the bad guy. You call 911 give a brief explanation of what happened.
The securing of the scene and some investigation will also happen at your house before anybody gets any first aid. Even if the officer's there want to help they first have the responsibility to do their police job, and then maybe they can do some first aid while waiting for the medics. That will be a short wait because it is very likely those medics have been waiting a couple houses down for 20 or 30 minutes to get the all clear. Nobody is likely going to be in a hurry, unless there is a child involved. The police have to make the scene safe. They have to figure out who is who and what the basics of the situation is before anybody is going to the hospital.

We need to have some basic first aid life saving skills and tools. It is also important to calculate the risk of the injured person if they can wait long enough for the police to do their police work. Maybe the stabbing victim needs their wound packed, pressure and thrown in the car and be driven to the hospital now, instead of waiting for the calvary. Call 911 on the way and explain the basics on the way to the hospital. This might have negative legal consequences. Its 1 in a billion situation. It might be better than watching your loved one bleed out while your handcuffed on your kitchen floor.

I'm not saying dont wait for the police and ambulance. I'm saying you are responsible for the whole spectrum of your family's safety, until help can get there. Self defense and first aid. It sucks, it's reality, you need to how to make holes and plug them.

I'm not an expert in this, so I can't really answer questions, it is something that should be thought about in your training schedule and in the process of trying figure what should be done if this happens to me in this scenario or if that happens.

 

[2A_Tom]

Snarky remark, please ignore!

The two officers at the Empire State Building shootout with the suicide by cop guy had a really great hit ratio. They hit ten people, including the one they were shooting at.

Seriously though, there should be a merit system within departments where Officers turn in evidence of training. Not just firearms, force on force, firearms retention and such, but continuing education in criminology and such. This should count toward pay raises and promotions.

 

[VUPDblue]

Snarky remark, please ignore!

The two officers at the Empire State Building shootout with the suicide by cop guy had a really great hit ratio. They hit ten people, including the one they were shooting at.

Seriously though, there should be a merit system within departments where Officers turn in evidence of training. Not just firearms, force on force, firearms retention and such, but continuing education in criminology and such. This should count toward pay raises and promotions.

continuing education is required in LE. I don't know for sure what the requirement is that's mandated by the state, but my department requires 24 hours annually. some officers get that 24 hours and some get 2,3,4 times that amount if they take training above and beyond the basic requirement.

 

[2A_Tom]

I do understand that. I believe the ones that go above and beyond should get rewards and recognition. This might inspire younger and maybe even experienced men and women to work at it.

 

[Denny347]

The securing of the scene and some investigation will also happen at your house before anybody gets any first aid. Even if the officer's there want to help they first have the responsibility to do their police job, and then maybe they can do some first aid while waiting for the medics. That will be a short wait because it is very likely those medics have been waiting a couple houses down for 20 or 30 minutes to get the all clear. Nobody is likely going to be in a hurry, unless there is a child involved. The police have to make the scene safe. They have to figure out who is who and what the basics of the situation is before anybody is going to the hospital.

It shouldn't be that long unless there is an active shooter out. 5-10 minutes is typical for all the scenes I've worked. For instance, I responded to a scene where husband shoots wife and adult son. Husband (Oc'ing with a CCW badge on his belt haha) waits for us on front porch. We had to clear the house before medics could come in. Wife was REALLY shot up and dead, so no helping her, son survived. The delay wasn't more than 5 minutes longer than if the scene was cold from the start. For the countless scenes just like that i've worked, 5 minutes average is typical for us in the city. Now I will say that we've waited 20 minutes for EMS on a run of the mill medic call because the closest one was coming from the other side of town. That was in the City, I bet in could be longer for rural at times.

 

[2A_Tom]

I hope that aid is rendered in a timely manner.

[h=1]Guerena Autopsy released[/h]

Originally Posted by mrjarrell
It's obvious. They were actually trying to save his life and inflict only non-life threatening wounds on him. The shots that resulted in his death were tragic misses. They were just trying to shoot the rifle out of his hands.



Absolutely. That's why they waited over an hour to go in to render any aid.

BTW reading through this is like old home week. Lots of shooters.

 

[ajeandy]

This whole story doesn’t sound good for the cop. If he’s been an officer for barely a year and only half of those reported harassment stories are true that’s a red flag.

The deceased’s family should sue the state and maybe that will prompt change for dash and body cameras.

Seriously no dash cameras???? That’s insane.

 

[Denny347]

The deceased’s family should sue the state and maybe that will prompt change for dash and body cameras.

Seriously no dash cameras???? That’s insane.

Lawsuit? That's a given. They ALWAYS sue...sue sue sue sue. That alone won't likely change anything. If ISP is anything like us, lawsuits are a dime a dozen.

 

[Expat]

I hope that aid is rendered in a timely manner.

Guerena Autopsy released

Originally Posted by mrjarrell
It's obvious. They were actually trying to save his life and inflict only non-life threatening wounds on him. The shots that resulted in his death were tragic misses. They were just trying to shoot the rifle out of his hands.



Absolutely. That's why they waited over an hour to go in to render any aid.

BTW reading through this is like old home week. Lots of shooters.

You had me excited there for a minute. I thought they had let MrJ come back.

 

[KCYM7]

This discussion is all fine...but I think most are missing the takeaway from events that have been going on for a very long time.

Ever watch "Blade Runner"? As former cop Decker is waking away, LAPD Lt. Bryant says..."Stop right where you are! You know the score pal, if your not cop your little people."

If your not cop, your little people.

Get it?

 

[Tactically Fat]

*You're

 

[HoughMade]

So now we're assessing the attitude of police officers based upon 30+ year old movies.

Greaaaaaat.

 

[DRob]

So now we're assessing the attitude of police officers based upon 30+ year old movies.

Greaaaaaat.

We live in the age of fantasy. TV, the 'net, Instagram, FaceBook, Twitter, movies (old or new) are all many people know. The future is a sci-fi movie!

For those who haven't heard already, Twitter, YouTube, and FaceBook are merging. It will be called YouTwitFace!

 

[Route 45]

I don't know if it has been asked...but did he fire six shots, or only five?

 

[churchmouse]

This discussion is all fine...but I think most are missing the takeaway from events that have been going on for a very long time.

Ever watch "Blade Runner"? As former cop Decker is waking away, LAPD Lt. Bryant says..."Stop right where you are! You know the score pal, if your not cop your little people."

If your not cop, your little people.

Get it?

Seriously.

Get it.