Trooper in deadly Montgomery County shooting identified, but questions remain

[Lelliott8]

Rich Nye doing some digging. Along the same lines as my previous comments.

https://www.wthr.com/article/severa...traffic-stops-trooper-involved-fatal-shooting

 

[Denny347]

So, are you saying that the officer could not hit what he aimed at?

He hit him...so he didn't miss. Hell, maybe he aimed for a headshot. I dono.

 

[Coach]

I just can't get past the fact that Rightsell was shot in the face.
I'm pretty sure that not one agency trains to shoot in the face.
Every agency I can think of trains to shoot center-mass.

Can someone please offer a scenario where the "perp" would be face-shot?

How is it known he was shot in the face? Is there a story I have missed?

Why does that bother you? LE has an 18-19% hit ratio nationally. Most shots fired by LE miss. He might have hit where he was aiming or it might have been luck.

 

[Coach]

Rich Nye doing some digging. Along the same lines as my previous comments.

https://www.wthr.com/article/severa...traffic-stops-trooper-involved-fatal-shooting

I figure a LEO working the road is going to **** off a few people. Nature of the beast. Maybe this guy went to far and maybe he did not. At this point we do not know. Accusations are easy to make, and none of these accusations are under oath. I do not mind some hurt feelings. I want to know if Mr. Rightsell's death was justified or not.

 

[churchmouse]

How is it known he was shot in the face? Is there a story I have missed?

Why does that bother you? LE has an 18-19% hit ratio nationally. Most shots fired by LE miss. He might have hit where he was aiming or it might have been luck.

That low.........

I figure a LEO working the road is going to **** off a few people. Nature of the beast. Maybe this guy went to far and maybe he did not. At this point we do not know. Accusations are easy to make, and none of these accusations are under oath. I do not mind some hurt feelings. I want to know if Mr. Rightsell's death was justified or not.

Exactly. That is all that matters but again, they use who we are and what we have done against us.

 

[Coach]

Hit ratio is that low. Active shooters on the other hand are right at 50%. But that is not due to skill but fertile fields of opportunity.

Think about the situation that is involved when a LEO is shooting. It is a serious situation and the things going on with their own body work against getting good hits. Plus many of them do not train or practice more than required. Many qualify when it is required and that is it. Plus getting shot at while trying to hit the target is pretty darn tough. The type of stress most of us never (thankfully) have to deal with.

 

[Cameramonkey]

[STRIKE][/STRIKE]

That low.........


Exactly. That is all that matters but again, they use who we are and what we have done against us.

I think I have heard the term for the average* cop "one mag, one kill". Forgot which trainer muttered the words.

*for the average beat cop that isnt really a gun guy and only shoots a pistol annually to qualify. (and probably doesnt even bother to carry off duty) Much [STRIKE]lower[/STRIKE] HIGHER hit ratio for REAL cops who are actually gun guys and proficient in their tools of the trade. (probably all of INGO LEOs)

 

[churchmouse]

How is it known he was shot in the face? Is there a story I have missed?

Why does that bother you? LE has an 18-19% hit ratio nationally. Most shots fired by LE miss. He might have hit where he was aiming or it might have been luck.

I figure a LEO working the road is going to **** off a few people. Nature of the beast. Maybe this guy went to far and maybe he did not. At this point we do not know. Accusations are easy to make, and none of these accusations are under oath. I do not mind some hurt feelings. I want to know if Mr. Rightsell's death was justified or not.

Hit ratio is that low. Active shooters on the other hand are right at 50%. But that is not due to skill but fertile fields of opportunity.

I have some solid ideas on this but the LEO I know are serious shooters.

 

[jsharmon7]

I have some solid ideas on this but the LEO I know are serious shooters.

This is probably a topic for another thread, but I think it’s mostly a matter of what one believes to be “proficient.” A lot of folks think that qualifying once a year and mostly hitting the targets on the other drills means they’re good to go. I think a lot of people simply don’t have a frame of reference for what “good” shooting looks like.

 

[Coach]

I have some solid ideas on this but the LEO I know are serious shooters.

Don't doubt it. There are the minority of the cop world then.

I was recently running a little shooting event. My 11 year old son and 19 year old daughter went head two head against to guys with badges and beat them. My kids can shoot, and there was not real stress involved, but it should not have happened. Not meant to be knock, but it is a fact.

 

[Coach]

This is probably a topic for another thread, but I think it’s mostly a matter of what one believes to be “proficient.” A lot of folks think that qualifying once a year and mostly hitting the targets on the other drills means they’re good to go. I think a lot of people simply don’t have a frame of reference for what “good” shooting looks like.

Amen

 

[churchmouse]

How is it known he was shot in the face? Is there a story I have missed?

Why does that bother you? LE has an 18-19% hit ratio nationally. Most shots fired by LE miss. He might have hit where he was aiming or it might have been luck.

I figure a LEO working the road is going to **** off a few people. Nature of the beast. Maybe this guy went to far and maybe he did not. At this point we do not know. Accusations are easy to make, and none of these accusations are under oath. I do not mind some hurt feelings. I want to know if Mr. Rightsell's death was justified or not.

Don't doubt it. There are the minority of the cop world then.

I was recently running a little shooting event. My 11 year old son and 19 year old daughter went head two head against to guys with badges and beat them. My kids can shoot, and there was not real stress involved, but it should not have happened. Not meant to be knock, but it is a fact.

I do not want to mock either. Not my intent. But if these stats are for real there is a serious issue here and JSH has probably hit on it.
I do not want to jack the thread but also fear discussing this in another thread would not go well.

 

[Coach]

I do not want to mock either. Not my intent. But if these stats are for real there is a serious issue here and JSH has probably hit on it.
I do not want to jack the thread but also fear discussing this in another thread would not go well.

I have run into that stat in classes with a number of national level trainers. I have seen those numbers several times at the Tactical Conference from more than one presenter. I have seen those numbers from ALICE trainers about school safety. They are real and there is a problem. References are made about the Thin Blue Line. If the general public had any idea how thin that blue line was they would own a gun and train regularly. Not a knock on the quality officers out there, but all officers are not quality. You cannot judge by the group. In a group there are good and bad every single time. No one hates bad cops or bad teachers more than good cops and good teachers. That applies to any profession I would assume.

 

[bwframe]

Rich Nye doing some digging. Along the same lines as my previous comments.

https://www.wthr.com/article/severa...traffic-stops-trooper-involved-fatal-shooting

No disrespect to you sir, but I take that report with a big bag of rock salt. I quit watching WTHR for making their own news with their "stories" a long time ago.

Five people disgruntled in an area regularly patrolled is by no means "several." WTHR was looking to sensationalize, like they always do.

I'm glad people are following up on this, but we need to be cautious on who we are quick to believe. I wouldn't readily believe at lot of other WTHR reporting and I'm sure not going to readily fall for this headline.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I just can't get past the fact that Rightsell was shot in the face.
I'm pretty sure that not one agency trains to shoot in the face.
Every agency I can think of trains to shoot center-mass.

Can someone please offer a scenario where the "perp" would be face-shot?

Who says it was intentional?

 

[Route 45]

There's not a whole lot that can be done about officer hit ratio. The time and resources that it would take to turn every officer into Jerry Miculek are just not available. Each officer is free to improve his/her own skill level with practice, but if the ammo and facility is not provided by the department, it's going to be difficult and expensive to accomplish. Police work is not about shooting guns.

I am betting that those who are so proud of how good they are at punching close holes and ringing steel would see their scores go down on a two-way range. Training helps, but not even good force-on-force training can mimic the stress of someone who is refusing to stand still for your "center mass" shot and is also trying his best to kill you.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Is that the only shooting you have been in? Sucks when someone forces you into that position. Thank you sir for your service to the people....you are a good man.

Yes, thankfully that is the only one. Been close a couple times though.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

There's not a whole lot that can be done about officer hit ratio. The time and resources that it would take to turn every officer into Jerry Miculek are just not available. Each officer is free to improve his/her own skill level with practice, but if the ammo and facility is not provided by the department, it's going to be difficult and expensive to accomplish. Police work is not about shooting guns.

I am betting that those who are so proud of how good they are at punching close holes and ringing steel would see their scores go down on a two-way range. Training helps, but not even good force-on-force training can mimic the stress of someone who is refusing to stand still for your "center mass" shot and is also trying his best to kill you.

Yep. Shooting paper or steel is no comparison to shooting a human target.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

How is it known he was shot in the face? Is there a story I have missed?

"Family said Rightsell was shot in the face, the bullet piercing his bottom lip and shattering his jaw before lodging in the soft tissue of his throat."

https://www.wthr.com/article/man-shot-and-killed-state-trooper-pleaded-guilty-previous-roadside-run

 

[Butch627]

"Family said Rightsell was shot in the face, the bullet piercing his bottom lip and shattering his jaw before lodging in the soft tissue of his throat."

https://www.wthr.com/article/man-shot-and-killed-state-trooper-pleaded-guilty-previous-roadside-run

I wonder how he could have been able to tell about how he was shot at the hospital with that wound. I also wonder about the officers on site making a guy with his face half blown away walking with his hands on or above his head.