To Mask or Not to Mask?

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    jamil

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    There's plague on the loose. The easiest way to avoid it is to stay away from people that have it. We cannot tell who has it at a glance, so staying away from all others in public makes sense. Where close contact is unavoidable masking up and washing up are really the only tools available to us, doing so makes sense.

    The shutdown was a terrible idea, it introduced too great a level of economic instability without a reasonable mitigating strategy to keep money, goods, and services flowing in the following disruption. However, ignoring the threat posed by an uncontrolled pathogen entirely isn't a workable strategy either.

    Covid shows...or should show us...how vulnerable we are to a bad bug getting loose. There are worse ones than this. Working shoulder to shoulder and gathering in large groups creates a breeding ground for these things, so it makes good sense to develop alternative ways to socialize. Our old normal is inherently risky from a public health standpoint, and we should consider that carefully when considering what out new normal should look like.

    I can see the skeptics' point that it's far less common sense that just any old rag over your face will do. I don't think it's a binary. "All we can do" doesn't make it a natural candidate for being mandatory. Unless we have some standards around masks that make good sense, mandating the wearing anything that passes as a "mask" doesn't make sense. Like I said, it's just a box that gets checked. My wife bought a mask made of moisture wicking material that's nearly see through. I doubt that's gonna work. But it'll check the box. And it's easier to breath through. So that's a plus now that they're mandatory.

    One thing I do agree on, we would probably have been better off if they'd have just required the checkbox instead of shutting things down. But back then the CDC was too busy being wrong about how the virus spreads, and telling the prepper types that they shouldn't e buying the masks, because they don't work. It's surfaces. Now it's droplets. Hopefully the evolution in the theory of spread has evolved closer to reality. But when we have health officials caring more about their precious greater good than just telling people the truth, who knows?
     

    jamil

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    Those cloth masks are like carrying a hi-point with a .22LR conversion...yeah, it *might* help when the time comes, but deep down you know it's really only for theatric effect.

    I'm pro self-protection. A medical-quality disposable paper mask, or an industrial n95-type mask - used once and disposed of - is the best protection I have short of distance from the infected. You won't see me with a tee-shirt wrapped loosely around my face, or putting the same mask on over and over again. I have always been a compulsive hand-washer. My job allows for reasonable personal distance without much of an adjustment, so I have had to make only minor adjustments at work. I think it is only reasonable to take these precautions.

    More importantly, you aren't likely to see me at all in public at all. The *best* defense I have is to stay away from people who might be sick, so I stay home as much as possible.

    To get back to my earlier analogy...the Hi-Point is the only option we have...so, knowing that, I'm trying to do my best to avoid the fight altogether.

    I had some N95 masks. I quit wearing them because I can't wear them for more than 20 minutes without getting out of breath. The reusable cloth mask I used for awhile is more breathable. It was designed for dust and pollen (I used it while mowing) and I could wear that for much longer periods. It's probably more effective than my wife's mask, which you can almost see through. But her's is WAY more breathable.

    One other point. Mandating masks don't make people wear them correctly. Those ones with the ear bungies don't work well for people with smaller heads. I see kids wearing them and they're constantly falling down, and the kids are constantly trying to put them back in place, or they just give up and let them fall down under their noses. So they're touching them all the time. So on the chance they're infected--WHICH IS THE ENTIRE REASON TO MAKE EVERYONE WEAR THEM--these kids would be getting virus all over everything they touch. Same with skinnier people. I mean. If you have a fat face, or an exceptionally large nose, you're probably good to go with that type of mask as far as keeping it on your face. But too many people don't wear them correctly. I suspect that making this stuff mandatory will do jack **** for actually stopping the surge.
     

    jamil

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    I don't like it as a mandate. I also really don't think it does much to add to the effect, when you already had most retailers adding a mask policy and when you already required restaurant workers to wear masks.

    I thought the original idea a couple of weeks ago to encourage it was the way to go.

    I do have a bit of sympathy for the situation if I were the governor and the scientist came to me and said that we either need to increase masking, close more businesses, close schools, or we are going to see more deaths. He's given emergency powers to deal with things like this and I would not want to be in his shoes. Or at least I'd want to see where the cases went after a mask mandate before I went backwards with closures, like other states have

    I'm sure I'll vote libertarian again though. For those who ask the governor candidate is Donald Rainwater

    As far as my overall feeling about masks, no one sums it up better than Michael Osterholm does. We don't have hard science yet and we especially don't have hard science on which cloth masks to recommend. We should wear them voluntarily in my opinion. But the CDC claiming that masks alone will drive this epidemic into the ground seems like a statement without enough evidence. Anyway Osterholm says it better and he's certainly more qualified than I am to say it

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...oth-face-coverings-public-preventing-covid-19

    Thanks for that link. I think that's a reasoned position to have. I suspect that the projected confidence of the CDC about the impact of masks is causing the mask mandates. There should be hell to pay if we find out all along that they're full of ****. People who make snap decisions on such faulty evidence should have some consequences.
     

    singlesix

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    Keeps the sheep calm, mask a visible sign of "we are doing something". Mask mandate was a big push by the retail associations, too many a$$hats abusing employees over store policy, now it a "law", so the hope is that this will help. I've seen vids of one person blowing his nose on a employee's shirt over not wearing a mask. If you ever managed a large group of people you know you have to lower it down to the least common denominator.

    This hasn't impact me to any great extend. Walk into restaurant with mask on, sit down take mask off, eat, pay, get up, put mask on.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Oct 13, 2010
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    Keeps the sheep calm, mask a visible sign of "we are doing something". Mask mandate was a big push by the retail associations, too many a$$hats abusing employees over store policy, now it a "law", so the hope is that this will help. I've seen vids of one person blowing his nose on a employee's shirt over not wearing a mask. If you ever managed a large group of people you know you have to lower it down to the least common denominator.

    This hasn't impact me to any great extend. Walk into restaurant with mask on, sit down take mask off, eat, pay, get up, put mask on.

    The people I really feel sorry for, and I haven't seen any posts from, are those working in the restaurant stuck wearing it non-stop.
     

    JettaKnight

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    churchmouse

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    Dec 7, 2011
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    Is a mandate justified? Yes, I think it is - especially in the major population centers that cross county lines. The cities and the suburbs have a petri-dish quality, and these are the only tools we have.

    Is six months in jail appropriate for violating the mandate? I think not. I think a citation or summons is the appropriate enforcement mechanism, and a small fine (payable through community service) is an appropriate consequence.

    How can it be a misdemeanor Since when did the governor get the right to make laws?

    ^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^

    He does not have the authority to pull this crap.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    Is a mandate justified? Yes, I think it is - especially in the major population centers that cross county lines. The cities and the suburbs have a petri-dish quality, and these are the only tools we have.

    Is six months in jail appropriate for violating the mandate? I think not. I think a citation or summons is the appropriate enforcement mechanism, and a small fine (payable through community service) is an appropriate consequence.

    There's plague on the loose. The easiest way to avoid it is to stay away from people that have it. We cannot tell who has it at a glance, so staying away from all others in public makes sense. Where close contact is unavoidable masking up and washing up are really the only tools available to us, doing so makes sense.

    The shutdown was a terrible idea, it introduced too great a level of economic instability without a reasonable mitigating strategy to keep money, goods, and services flowing in the following disruption. However, ignoring the threat posed by an uncontrolled pathogen entirely isn't a workable strategy either.

    Covid shows...or should show us...how vulnerable we are to a bad bug getting loose. There are worse ones than this. Working shoulder to shoulder and gathering in large groups creates a breeding ground for these things, so it makes good sense to develop alternative ways to socialize. Our old normal is inherently risky from a public health standpoint, and we should consider that carefully when considering what out new normal should look like.

    If in fact this is a plague and we can finally get some real info on it I think we all have it pinned down where it came from.
    Now, how and why.
    Scary questions that the answers might hurt.
     

    Hohn

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    Jul 5, 2012
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    Is a mandate justified? Yes, I think it is - especially in the major population centers that cross county lines. The cities and the suburbs have a petri-dish quality, and these are the only tools we have.

    Is six months in jail appropriate for violating the mandate? I think not. I think a citation or summons is the appropriate enforcement mechanism, and a small fine (payable through community service) is an appropriate consequence.
    New England journal of medicine:
    We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
     

    Noble Sniper

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    ^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^

    He does not have the authority to pull this crap.

    Holcomb is a RINO ..... and just another of many Marxist bolsheviks. Perhaps it’s a crude perspective but if you can smell a fart you can breathe in the COVID 19..... so your cloth mask and paper mask etc are as effective as...... nothing. But hey it looks good and gets the Bolsheviks some press time so mask up......


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    jamil

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    About that multi-quote bug. It hasn’t worked correctly in a long time. It should automatically clear the multi-quote checkboxes, even across pages within a thread. It uses a cookie to store the id’s of the posts you quoted, and as long as they’re in the cookie, they’ll stay checked.

    So when you submit your post, vbulletin should clear them from the cookie. I’ve verified that I can manually delete this cookie and it does clear all the multi-quotes. For some reason, they’re not getting cleared. I haven’t looked on my JavaScript debugger to see if there’s some kind of error preventing that code from executing. But I suspect that it’s supposed to get cleared in the PHP code the server is running, and not JavaScript on the page.

    For what it’s worth. Maybe TexKev might find that useful.
     

    jamil

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    There's a multi-response button? :ugh:
    I think he’s talking about multi-quote. Below each post there’s a checkbox. So if you want to reply to/quote multiple posts, you check the box under each post you want to quote.

    But don’t bother. It’s like a sticky booger.
     
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