To Mask or Not to Mask?

[BugI02]

Is there really a sequence or order there? or is it just a list of mitigations?
Of course there is an order in the presentation from left to right but I mean does that imply any order of importance or order of anything - other than they couldn't all occupy the same space at the same time.

Didn't you notice that they were labeled 'obligations', with the left half being individual 'obligations' and the right half being shared 'obligations'

Just more evidence (if any is needed) of how many people wish they could make YOU do things that make THEM feel safe

They will natter about choice while trying to guilt-trip you into making the choice they want

 

[churchmouse]

I do not have the popcorn emoji back yet dang it.

 

[CampingJosh]

Didn't you notice that they were labeled 'obligations', with the left half being individual 'obligations' and the right half being shared 'obligations'

Just more evidence (if any is needed) of how many people wish they could make YOU do things that make THEM feel safe

They will natter about choice while trying to guilt-trip you into making the choice they want

I think a lot of people would make different choices if the normal rules of negligence and recklessness (which are foundational to the concept of individual liberty) were applied to spreading this virus.

 

[BugI02]

Get back to me when you can prove (legally) that a particular individual spread same to another particular individual. Contact tracing as evidence would allow for some quite interesting discovery

 

[BugI02]

I do not have the popcorn emoji back yet dang it.

 

[CampingJosh]

Get back to me when you can prove (legally) that a particular individual spread same to another particular individual. Contact tracing as evidence would allow for some quite interesting discovery

So if it can't be proven, then you can't find yourself to be in the wrong?

 

[CampingJosh]

So if it can't be proven, then you can't find yourself to be in the wrong?

Or said differently: You don't care that your rights end when they impede on another's rights unless it can be proven that you did? You don't see any value in limiting yourself so as to defend the rights of others?

 

[Lex Concord]

I think a lot of people would make different choices if the normal rules of negligence and recklessness (which are foundational to the concept of individual liberty) were applied to spreading this virus.

You mean if it had to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal) or even a preponderance of the evidence that A’s actions, whether intentional or negligent, were responsible for B’s infection?

I’m guessing most “anti-maskers” (pro free breathing-ers?... I’ll work on it) would relish that level of respect for liberty around this matter.

“You must wear a mask just in case you are asymptomatically infected” sounds, logically speaking, very similar to “you must plug your barrel when in public as you may have a negligent discharge and harm someone else”.

Put simply, prior restraint is anathema to liberty.

Also, If someone is thinking about retorting with “you can’t shout ‘Fire!’ In a crowded theater”, save your keystrokes. It’s not analogous. Yo aren’t muzzled upon entry because you might yell “Fire!”, you merely risk prosecution and/or civil liability if you choose to do so.

 

[BugI02]

Or said differently: You don't care that your rights end when they impede on another's rights unless it can be proven that you did? You don't see any value in limiting yourself so as to defend the rights of others?

I don't see any freedom in letting someone else tell me how they think I should act in order to keep them happy. There seems no rational limit to the demands.

 

[BugI02]

So if it can't be proven, then you can't find yourself to be in the wrong?

You were the one that brought up negligence and recklessness, which are legal terms. I merely pointed out that trying to make that case would be no slam dunk

 

[nonobaddog]

Lmao, putting masks all the way at the front. What utter unscientific trash.

California has all those things, still waiting on it to save them.

Didn't you notice that they were labeled 'obligations', with the left half being individual 'obligations' and the right half being shared 'obligations'

Just more evidence (if any is needed) of how many people wish they could make YOU do things that make THEM feel safe

They will natter about choice while trying to guilt-trip you into making the choice they want

Yeah, I guess there is the left-half - right-half thing but I still don't see any ordinality in the thing.

 

[jamil]

I think a lot of people would make different choices if the normal rules of negligence and recklessness (which are foundational to the concept of individual liberty) were applied to spreading this virus.

So if it can't be proven, then you can't find yourself to be in the wrong?

Here’s a good question. What if you’re full if ****? What if you don’t actually understand the motives of the people you’re looking down upon? What if there is some truth on the other side which you haven’t considered while passing judgement exclusively from your own perspective?

This isn’t an issue of morality. we’re not there yet. It’s an issue of differing beliefs and worldviews. You’re not listening to what people are telling you. It comes off as self-righteousness. If your purpose is persuasion, you’re failing. If your purpose is to show your contempt, mission accomplished.

 

[NKBJ]

Didn't you notice that they were labeled 'obligations', with the left half being individual 'obligations' and the right half being shared 'obligations'

Just more evidence (if any is needed) of how many people wish they could make YOU do things that make THEM feel safe

They will natter about choice while trying to guilt-trip you into making the choice they want

Yeppers, know where you are and always observe the societal norms. That's why I wear a mask around townies, try not to make them nervous by blocking a grocery aisle and always zip my fly. I'm scary looking enough with a Stetson, dark glasses and a beard bag. Why an open fly might just push somebody right over the edge.

 

[drillsgt]

this percentage crap gives me a headache.....

When people use percentages it's generally done to disguise small or irrelevant numbers.

 

[buckwacker]

Here’s a good question. What if you’re full if ****? What if you don’t actually understand the motives of the people you’re looking down upon? What if there is some truth on the other side which you haven’t considered while passing judgement exclusively from your own perspective?

This isn’t an issue of morality. we’re not there yet. It’s an issue of differing beliefs and worldviews. You’re not listening to what people are telling you. It comes off as self-righteousness. If your purpose is persuasion, you’re failing. If your purpose is to show your contempt, mission accomplished.

This attitude seems to be nearly universal with the self appointed mask police. It's quite annoying.

 

[nonobaddog]

This is a tiny point so I hope nobody gets hung up on it. The term 'virtue signaling' might actually contribute to some of these self righteous attitudes by implying there is some virtue in their signal.
I think I will start using the term 'false-virtue signaling' instead.

Just to be clear - the signaling part is true but the virtue part is false.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I believe we're still having that discussion because WuVid is still spreading rapidly despite significant levels of compliance, which is leading people to desire real world evidence of masking actually stopping the spread. You could probably get near 100% compliance for 15 days, if people still believed that was all that was wanted. The rest of our lives? I will not comply

Went to visit a buddy up in Pike County... had to stop at a gas station and then a liquor store for beer. Out of 15-20 people I saw going in and out, of the two placed, one was masked (besides me).

Pike county is red.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I think you could agree that compliance with mask wearing is better now than in June when the lockdowns started loosening up. The numbers had dropped. Not because of masks, but presumably because of lockdowns. So then things open up, and the numbers got worse. And then we started getting the mask mandates and the numbers still got worse. So there is at least a little there that you have to acknowledge. Even if the compliance wasn’t stellar, it was still better than it was as things were opening up when numbers started to climb. I think if masks were very effective at stopping transmission, we should have seen numbers proportional to the masks being worn adequately. I think there is a lot more to retarding transmission rates than just wearing masks. I kinda think people have stopped the social distancing of late especially. I suspect social distancing and isolating positive people may be better than masks.

Yup, masks don't replace all the other things... but add another layer "of defense".

 

[JettaKnight]

This is a tiny point so I hope nobody gets hung up on it. The term 'virtue signaling' might actually contribute to some of these self righteous attitudes by implying there is some virtue in their signal.
I think I will start using the term 'false-virtue signaling' instead.

Just to be clear - the signaling part is true but the virtue part is false.

Be careful - there's virtual signalling on both sides.

 

[buckwacker]

Went to visit a buddy up in Pike County... had to stop at a gas station and then a liquor store for beer. Out of 15-20 people I saw going in and out, of the two placed, one was masked (besides me).

Pike county is red.

I can give you a mountain of circumstantial evidence that tends to make exactly the opposite point you're trying to make. Though I don't think it would change minds of those whose minds have already been made.