To mask or not to mask....That is the question. Part II

[nonobaddog]

I would need to see the parameters that study used to conclude definitive outdoor transmission. A study done by the South Koreans, who had rigorous and intrusive contact tracing in place prior to the study as well as high quality testing for positivity, found that out of 407 patients testing positive for WuVid, 406 caught the disease from indoor exposure to others already infected. The one remaining case could not be definitively attributed to an outdoor exposure but it could not be ruled out

Here is a literature review about outdoor transmission. I didn't pursue the reviewed studies. It seems everybody agrees the level of outdoor transmission is low.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/223/4/550/6009483

 

[Ingomike]

‍"How stupid! Now literally almost no one will wear a mask again. You can’t enforce masks for only “some” people with the “honor” system. Why would the CDC put this out before enough people have gotten vaccinated?"

— DanielNewmaη (@DanielNewman) May 13, 2021

Now do the honor system for voting...

"You Can Pry My Mask Off My Cold, Dead Face" - Covid Cultists Go Berserk After CDC Updates Mask Guidance, Big Box Retailers Drop Mask Mandates | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

Covid cult members went berserk after the CDC updated its mask guidance and big box retailers dropped their mask mandates.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

FFL

 

[Sylvain]

I don't get why people freak out because some non-vaccinated people might not be wearing a mask anymore in some stores.

If you are fully vaccinated you don't care if non-masked people around you are vaccinated or not.

If you are not vaccinated, and are afraid that non-masked people might not be vaccinated, just wear a mask and stay away from them.

It should be simple enough.

 

[Ark]

I don't get why people freak out because some non-vaccinated people might not be wearing a mask anymore in some stores.

If you are fully vaccinated you don't care if non-masked people around you are vaccinated or not.

If you are not vaccinated, and are afraid that non-masked people might not be vaccinated, just wear a mask and stay away from them.

It should be simple enough.

Ex-act-ly. If you are vaccinated, you are out of the game and have no standing to make demands of anyone else. You're immune, it's over for you.

If only the anti-vaccine people are going to get covid and die now, then I don't understand what the problem is. Lose the masks and let's move on.

 

[Ingomike]

I don't get why people freak out because some non-vaccinated people might not be wearing a mask anymore in some stores.

If you are fully vaccinated you don't care if non-masked people around you are vaccinated or not.

If you are not vaccinated, and are afraid that non-masked people might not be vaccinated, just wear a mask and stay away from them.

It should be simple enough.

The reason you don't get it is because you don't think like they do. It is first and foremost virtue signaling. If you look at my link there are those, at best, perplexed at how to navigate life without the mask to signal by.

 

[Ingomike]

Ex-act-ly. If you are vaccinated, you are out of the game and have no standing to make demands of anyone else. You're immune, it's over for you.

If only the anti-vaccine people are going to get covid and die now, then I don't understand what the problem is. Lose the masks and let's move on.

I was good with it, am good with it, will be good with it. Let's get on with life and let the chips fall where they may. If they continue to push beyond where we are, there definitely is an ulterior motive...

 

[NKBJ]

Here is a literature review about outdoor transmission. I didn't pursue the reviewed studies. It seems everybody agrees the level of outdoor transmission is low.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/223/4/550/6009483

A trip down memory lane...
Early on there were reports out of China that people were thought to have perhaps gotten the bug with the emissions from putrefying bodies. In other words, the flatulence of the dead. That report was so amazing it's hung in my memory.
But about transmission between the living, there are articles floating out there now (saw one recently from the LA Times) about how results are suggestive of the vaccines providing some level of protection from infection as opposed to lessening the symptoms, invoking a similar level of amazement. Timing being of the essence perhaps the excuse is needed to justify making healthy people wear masks while the obediently jabbed are permitted to enjoy whatever will now pass for normal.

 

[jamil]

The reason you don't get it is because you don't think like they do. It is first and foremost virtue signaling. If you look at my link there are those, at best, perplexed at how to navigate life without the mask to signal by.

Hogg is basically saying this overtly. He doesn't want to be mistaken as a conservative. So to him, the mask sets him apart from conservatives. What is that if not virtue-signaling?

But. He's full of ****, of course. I see a lot of people without masks now. Some of them I'm pretty sure voted Democrat, maybe even twice in the same election. Maybe it's stereotyping, but you see some fat blue-haired person with uber-shorts on and a rainbow tee shirt, not wearing a mask. Bet THAT's not a Republican.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hogg is basically saying this overtly. He doesn't want to be mistaken as a conservative. So to him, the mask sets him apart from conservatives. What is that if not virtue-signaling?

But. He's full of ****, of course. I see a lot of people without masks now. Some of them I'm pretty sure voted Democrat, maybe even twice in the same election. Maybe it's stereotyping, but you see some fat blue-haired person with uber-shorts on and a rainbow tee shirt, not wearing a mask. Bet THAT's not a Republican.

Im a conservative. I wear a mask. But I don't want to be mistaken for David Hogg....

 

[d.kaufman]

 

[chipbennett]

Are you suggesting outdoor transmission has never happened? I wouldn't go that far. I believe it is comparatively rare but I find it highly likely that it has indeed happened.
The technicalities of the transmission being "documented" and the contact being "casual" probably make the statement true but misleading.

If outdoor, casual-contact transmission has occurred: prove it.

Hardly technicalities, and the statement is not in any way misleading.

"Documented" should be self-explanatory. In my field, there is a standing directive: if it isn't documented, it didn't happen. All the more, when that which has not been documented has been used to restrict and to infringe upon natural, constitutional rights for over a year. Whether it happens or not, if it happens so rarely that even a single case cannot be documented, then no one has any business using it as the basis for any form of control over the behaviors of other individuals.

"Casual" is, in fact, rather important. All evidence I've seen points to this virus being transmitted through sustained, close contact, and not through temporary, casual contact. It might be the key point for discussing what reasonable, rational public policy is, or should have been.

And as-stated, it is likely only "misleading" to anyone who infers something that the statement does not actually say or imply.

 

[chipbennett]

One study in Ireland found that about 0.11% of confirmed cases were from outdoor transmission - 262 cases out of 232,164 total cases. That is more than the number of people that get pooped on by passing airliners but still not a lot.

You're leaving out one, particular word, and thereby changing the context. That word is casual.

(If I were a betting man, I would put money on those 262 cases involving people at soccer matches, beer gardens (I assume the Irish have those?), or similar - all activities that do not fall under casual contact.)

 

[MCgrease08]

I went to the Indy Indians game at Victory Field last night. I did put on a mask for a total of about 15 seconds to walk through the gate and into the stadium but removed it as soon as I was inside. No one on staff said a word about it. Ushers, concession stand workers were all helpful and friendly.

While watching from the upper deck I was encouraged that the vast majority of fans didn't have masks on while just sitting in their seats. Some did, but the ratio was probably 10-1 in favor of people not wearing masks. More had them on in the concourse when moving around, but there was a greater sense of "back to normal" than most places I've been to lately.

Side note:Indians beat the Mud Hens 5-4. Toledo loaded the bases in the top of the 9th with just one out, but Indians brought in a closer who got the final two outs for the win. It was a really good game.

 

[Hawkeye]

A trip down memory lane...
Early on there were reports out of China that people were thought to have perhaps gotten the bug with the emissions from putrefying bodies. In other words, the flatulence of the dead. That report was so amazing it's hung in my memory.
But about transmission between the living, there are articles floating out there now (saw one recently from the LA Times) about how results are suggestive of the vaccines providing some level of protection from infection as opposed to lessening the symptoms, invoking a similar level of amazement. Timing being of the essence perhaps the excuse is needed to justify making healthy people wear masks while the obediently jabbed are permitted to enjoy whatever will now pass for normal.

Are you saying that if I'm infected with COVID, that my farts can carry it to another person?

 

[Ingomike]

Hogg is basically saying this overtly. He doesn't want to be mistaken as a conservative. So to him, the mask sets him apart from conservatives. What is that if not virtue-signaling?

But. He's full of ****, of course. I see a lot of people without masks now. Some of them I'm pretty sure voted Democrat, maybe even twice in the same election. Maybe it's stereotyping, but you see some fat blue-haired person with uber-shorts on and a rainbow tee shirt, not wearing a mask. Bet THAT's not a Republican.

I was replying to Sylvan, not camera Hogg, when he stated he did not get why vaccinated worried about unvaccinated...

 

[nonobaddog]

If outdoor, casual-contact transmission has occurred: prove it.

Hardly technicalities, and the statement is not in any way misleading.

"Documented" should be self-explanatory. In my field, there is a standing directive: if it isn't documented, it didn't happen. All the more, when that which has not been documented has been used to restrict and to infringe upon natural, constitutional rights for over a year. Whether it happens or not, if it happens so rarely that even a single case cannot be documented, then no one has any business using it as the basis for any form of control over the behaviors of other individuals.

"Casual" is, in fact, rather important. All evidence I've seen points to this virus being transmitted through sustained, close contact, and not through temporary, casual contact. It might be the key point for discussing what reasonable, rational public policy is, or should have been.

And as-stated, it is likely only "misleading" to anyone who infers something that the statement does not actually say or imply.

It depends on what you mean by "documented". Nobody has a inhalation monitor that tells them exactly what time they inhaled the virus or their GPS coordinates at that time. People may have an experience and then get sick several days later and make an assumption that the experience they had was where they inhaled the virus but of course they don't really know. The assumption is probably valid to a certain degree. Is that "documented"? Not really. It is based on an assumption. So to demand "documented" is a technicality that allows all sorts of statements to be made because "documented" doesn't really exist in the case of inhaling viruses.

"Casual" is ambiguous and could mean one thing to one person and something else to another person. Without a good definition of "casual" it just opens the door for moving goalposts.

 

[Sylvain]

The reason you don't get it is because you don't think like they do. It is first and foremost virtue signaling. If you look at my link there are those, at best, perplexed at how to navigate life without the mask to signal by.

I'm sure some of those folks (maybe even the majority?) are truly confused and afraid now that most people won't be wearing a mask.
They received so many contradictory informations on masks from the CDC, journalists, politicians etc over the last year.

I agree with you on the virtue signaling of the stupid ones you pointed out though.

 

[BugI02]

It depends on what you mean by "documented". Nobody has a inhalation monitor that tells them exactly what time they inhaled the virus or their GPS coordinates at that time. People may have an experience and then get sick several days later and make an assumption that the experience they had was where they inhaled the virus but of course they don't really know. The assumption is probably valid to a certain degree. Is that "documented"? Not really. It is based on an assumption. So to demand "documented" is a technicality that allows all sorts of statements to be made because "documented" doesn't really exist in the case of inhaling viruses.

"Casual" is ambiguous and could mean one thing to one person and something else to another person. Without a good definition of "casual" it just opens the door for moving goalposts.

Now do mask efficacy

 

[BugI02]

About GPS co-ordinates, check out the diagram at the end of this story to see just how intrusive the RoK contact tracing system is

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus' spread indoors

A South Korean study raises concerns that six feet of social distance may not be far enough to keep people safe from the coronavirus.

www.latimes.com

 

[IndyDave1776]

No one is talking about how the flu was wiped off the face of the planet this past year!
Made a mask out of 1/4” blue berry netting. Wore it to Menards the other day. Got a few stink eye looks but no one told me anything.

Menard can go **** an energized light socket.