To mask or not to mask....That is the question. Part II

[gregr]

I disagree that companies that control the market for necessities, invite the public into their facilities, should be allowed to engage in discriminatory behaviors braised on health. Would they be allowed to check to see if an individual has AIDS? An STD? Where do they get the authority to determine if an individual is required to wear a mask? They have no idea if the health of the individual can even do that.

This is not shirt and shoes, they are crossing over into health privacy matters and have no right to do so...

We disagree on this point, and, law is on the side of the business.

 

[gregr]

I agree they have the right, and I’ll try to obey when asked, but not by the standard sheep sign. I just had a conversation with my brother this morning while driving down the interstate about how I drive into Michigan, Ohio or Kentucky and I’m like “what is wrong with these people? They’re driving the speed limit.” It just seems so foreign to me to be that obedient.
My point is, and how this relates to masking signs, is that they don’t really mean it. The store owner is told to put up a sign or else, so he does. And everyone is confused.
There is a void right now that a little bit of leadership can fill, and change hearts and minds.
It is also high time for civil disobedience.

PS, I also completly ignore no gun signs, I’ll do my business there with my gun on if I want, and hope they find out about it.

"Obedient"? You mean lawful? This country is already very near anarchy, and we have to have law and order. I mean nothing wrong here, but I have to say, your thinking and actions concern me. You sound an awful lot like the the kind of person that is the reason I carry...

 

[churchmouse]

"Obedient"? You mean lawful? This country is already very near anarchy, and we have to have law and order. I mean nothing wrong here, but I have to say, your thinking and actions concern me. You sound an awful lot like the the kind of person that is the reason I carry...

Come on man. Seriously. Have you followed his posts. To resist an overlord Gov. is not a person that you would carry because of.
these overlords want obedient. I for one will remain free thanks. If that pushes some boundaries maybe it’s time. Not really for me to say.
but to say you carry because if people like this man is troubling to me. JMHO of course.

 

[churchmouse]

This thread is reaching its limits. It had me twist up this morning and that’s just wrong.

Holcomb got clipped today so hope looms on the horizon.

I am I. Zionsville at the park with the terrorists. Not 1 mask to be seen and it’s glorious.

 

[MCgrease08]

"Obedient"? You mean lawful? This country is already very near anarchy, and we have to have law and order. I mean nothing wrong here, but I have to say, your thinking and actions concern me. You sound an awful lot like the the kind of person that is the reason I carry...

This assessment could not possibly be more off base.

Many of us know ditcherman in the real world and he is one of the best people I know. How you got where you did based on a comment about ignoring mask signs is downright silly.

 

[ditcherman]

This assessment could not possibly be more off base.

Many of us know ditcherman in the real world and he is one of the best people I know. How you got where you did based on a comment about ignoring mask signs is downright silly.

Well, I certainly don’t think I deserve those kind words, but thank you.

 

[ditcherman]

This thread is reaching its limits. It had me twist up this morning and that’s just wrong.

Holcomb got clipped today so hope looms on the horizon.

I am I. Zionsville at the park with the terrorists. Not 1 mask to be seen and it’s glorious.

That’s awesome.
ETA: awesome that you’re at a Zville event and not seeing masks, not that the thread is off the rails.
We could start a “where did you expect to see masks today and didn’t” and a “where did you not mask up today” thread, in case you’re running out of things to monitor.

 

[churchmouse]

Well, I certainly don’t think I deserve those kind words, but thank you.

All I know of you is our interactions in here and others I do know that speak highly of you.

 

[churchmouse]

That’s awesome.
We could start a “where did you expect to see masks today and didn’t” and a “where did you not mask up today” thread, in case you’re running out of things to monitor.

Baseball in full swing. The playground full of kids and their adults. We did not see 1 fracking mask.

OK.
When this all started we were all more than concerned.
As it went on we all saw how those bags on the hill grabbed this to unseat a president.
Then we saw millions being spent to assemble triage centers and covid isolation units outside all the hospitals around Indy.
They were "NEVER" even used. Many have been removed again at great cost.
New York set up much the same and even had a navy Hospital ship at there disposal. How many came for assistance. How many. They sent the bad cases to nursing homes and really ramped up the numbers. Prove me wrong. Because you can not.

Again.....show me people walking dead. Piles of body's other than some crap hole country that lives in a sewer.
You cant because they dont exist.

Said my piece. Meant what I said. This is just me. Not a staff member pushing his weight. Just me sharing what I have seen.

 

[ditcherman]

"Obedient"? You mean lawful? This country is already very near anarchy, and we have to have law and order. I mean nothing wrong here, but I have to say, your thinking and actions concern me. You sound an awful lot like the the kind of person that is the reason I carry...

A lot can be lost in text, and we all see each other from the other side of the screen with our presuppositions and biases, and maybe even our defenses up. So, I’m sorry I’ve worried you. I sincerely believe that I wouldn’t in real life. Ok, maybe if you were a passenger in my truck.

If we are to be a law and order nation, it has to apply to all sides, no hypocrisy. When you watch an old western do you not root for the vigilante that has rode in to save the town from the railroad investor snake in the grass “bad guy”? IMO, there’s the law, and there’s what’s right. If some want to call “what’s right” anarchy, so be it. I don’t think our country is near enough to anarchy, if you can define anarchy as free independent thought and being left alone, hence my name calling “sheep” and what not, probably stirring the pot a bit much. These are just my opinions, and I am open to having my mind changed on the anarchy issue either direction. But not the hypocrisy part, I hate it and will call it out.

 

[BugI02]

But still not so great in the most vulnerable.

Which is also true for influenza and pneumonia, but we don't shut down the economy and corrode constitutional rights for those
illnesses, nor are we asked for our 'health papers'

 

[churchmouse]

Which is also true for influenza and pneumonia, but we don't shut down the economy and corrode constitutional rights for those
illnesses, nor are we asked for our 'health papers'

Bingo. What were the numbers I got from a friend that is directly associated with the game. 6 to 10 people avg. die every month in any given hospital from a flu related illness. Many are pneumonia from the flu and its many derivatives.

But we do not here about this because it does not shift power and revenue streams.

 

[ditcherman]

Baseball in full swing. The playground full of kids and their adults. We did not see 1 fracking mask.

OK.
When this all started we were all more than concerned.
As it went on we all saw how those bags on the hill grabbed this to unseat a president.
Then we saw millions being spent to assemble triage centers and covid isolation units outside all the hospitals around Indy.
They were "NEVER" even used. Many have been removed again at great cost.
New York set up much the same and even had a navy Hospital ship at there disposal. How many came for assistance. How many. They sent the bad cases to nursing homes and really ramped up the numbers. Prove me wrong. Because you can not.

Again.....show me people walking dead. Piles of body's other than some crap hole country that lives in a sewer.
You cant because they dont exist.

Said my piece. Meant what I said. This is just me. Not a staff member pushing his weight. Just me sharing what I have seen.

Very well said.
I know my opinion has radically changed, and I’m glad for the understanding here that it is allowed.
I was way more Smokingman than IngoMike when this all started, and I’ve really shifted, with info and time. Nobodies all wrong, and nobodies all right.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Went to Walmart in Noblesville and forgot mask in car. Nobody bothered me, nobody asked me to put on a mask, spotted several other people (mostly men) sans mask.

I am to misbehave...

 

[Ingomike]

We disagree on this point, and, law is on the side of the business.

The law is on the side of health information privacy, even to the individuals employers, certainly not a retailer. A retailer may ask a person WITHOUT an obvious handicap "is that a service animal" and what tasks does the animal do for you" that is it. Do you really believe a retailer has the right to interrogate customers to see who can and cannot be required to wear a mask?

I have believed all along the Wuwho flu path rights have been stripped from the public and closed courts would not help them. Lots of litigation Coming to settle many of these issues as courts reopen. I presume time to file will be extended due to shut downs...

 

[gregr]

A lot can be lost in text, and we all see each other from the other side of the screen with our presuppositions and biases, and maybe even our defenses up. So, I’m sorry I’ve worried you. I sincerely believe that I wouldn’t in real life. Ok, maybe if you were a passenger in my truck.

If we are to be a law and order nation, it has to apply to all sides, no hypocrisy. When you watch an old western do you not root for the vigilante that has rode in to save the town from the railroad investor snake in the grass “bad guy”? IMO, there’s the law, and there’s what’s right. If some want to call “what’s right” anarchy, so be it. I don’t think our country is near enough to anarchy, if you can define anarchy as free independent thought and being left alone, hence my name calling “sheep” and what not, probably stirring the pot a bit much. These are just my opinions, and I am open to having my mind changed on the anarchy issue either direction. But not the hypocrisy part, I hate it and will call it out.

I hear what you`re saying, and I agree with you to a point. We have to have both law, and order, and if the laws are bad, change the law, don`t become a criminal. What I see around our society and culture frightens me. Lawlessness at a level that ought to frighten everyone. A business mandating a mask is not an abridgement of anyone`s freedom, you have the choice to not go there. Government overstepping is an entirely different and truly dangerous matter.

I have no doubt you`re a great person, and I meant no disrespect. I`ll just shut up now, I`ve seen what the backlash is if an unpopular comment is made.

 

[gregr]

The law is on the side of health information privacy, even to the individuals employers, certainly not a retailer. A retailer may ask a person WITHOUT an obvious handicap "is that a service animal" and what tasks does the animal do for you" that is it. Do you really believe a retailer has the right to interrogate customers to see who can and cannot be required to wear a mask?

I have believed all along the Wuwho flu path rights have been stripped from the public and closed courts would not help them. Lots of litigation Coming to settle many of these issues as courts reopen. I presume time to file will be extended due to shut downs...

Unbelievable. look, any business has the right to mandate anything they want to allow entry. It`s a private property. You or I decide who we allow into our homes and we set any terms we want. If a business says mask up or don`t come in, it`s easy. DON`T go in...

That`s all I`m going to say on this, I`m not going to argue.

 

[ditcherman]

I hear what you`re saying, and I agree with you to a point. We have to have both law, and order, and if the laws are bad, change the law, don`t become a criminal. What I see around our society and culture frightens me. Lawlessness at a level that ought to frighten everyone. A business mandating a mask is not an abridgement of anyone`s freedom, you have the choice to not go there. Government overstepping is an entirely different and truly dangerous matter.

I have no doubt you`re a great person, and I meant no disrespect. I`ll just shut up now, I`ve seen what the backlash is if an unpopular comment is made.

I don’t think you should shut up. It could be a correction, or could just be another opinion, right or not. No disrespect taken.
More to your point, I feel absolutely helpless in “change the law”. Helpless. Secondly, I would argue that many of these businesses are only putting a sign up because the gov’t told them too, many on here are calling that in and of itself “gov’t overreach”, and it all goes back to your basic belief of what this virus really is, pandemic or scamdemic. Everything is based on that foundational opinion. So, there’s really no point in arguing about the high level stuff until we recognize the foundational beliefs are so far apart and that is what is driving our arguments.

 

[ditcherman]

Unbelievable. look, any business has the right to mandate anything they want to allow entry. It`s a private property. You or I decide who we allow into our homes and we set any terms we want. If a business says mask up or don`t come in, it`s easy. DON`T go in...

That`s all I`m going to say on this, I`m not going to argue.

But my local hardware store REALLY wants me to come in, and my feed store, and my gun store (ok they don’t count because they’ll ask you to take your mask off!), and my parts suppliers, and NAPA. Oh and subway, and the Mexican restaurant and dollar general. As I’ve said before, I’ll put one on if asked, but I don’t think they really mean it, shown by test after test of them not asking me. They have the sign up for the Karen’s, or just because it seems like the thing to do.
I’ve been in the post office multiple times without one, the Clinton county courthouse, and spent an hour in the license branch the other day, so some more ‘official’ type places as well.
Not trying to argue, but trying to add clarity to my point.

 

[churchmouse]

I don’t think you should shut up. It could be a correction, or could just be another opinion, right or not. No disrespect taken.
More to your point, I feel absolutely helpless in “change the law”. Helpless. Secondly, I would argue that many of these businesses are only putting a sign up because the gov’t told them too, many on here are calling that in and of itself “gov’t overreach”, and it all goes back to your basic belief of what this virus really is, pandemic or scamdemic. Everything is based on that foundational opinion. So, there’s really no point in arguing about the high level stuff until we recognize the foundational beliefs are so far apart and that is what is driving our arguments.

Lawyers. Follow the money. Easier to comply than resist. Cheaper too.